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The Luongo Thread: Part LXMV

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Old
08-16-2013, 12:10 AM
  #951
NYVanfan
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
There are still some of us (hiding in dark places) that will admit we would not have minded that. I am good with aquiring Bernier, but wouldn't have hated Luongo here either. I hope he lights it up for you this year.
remember when we more or less agreed that
Kadri, Bozak, 2nd
was a 'middle ground' type of deal for Luo?
bet you're glad that didnt happen ...
lol, the market sure went south and Kadri went north after that ... though now you may have to pay the kid a boatload for his one stellar half-season...
cheers

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08-16-2013, 12:21 AM
  #952
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
remember when we more or less agreed that
Kadri, Bozak, 2nd
was a 'middle ground' type of deal for Luo?
bet you're glad that didnt happen ...
lol, the market sure went south and Kadri went north after that ... though now you may have to pay the kid a boatload for his one stellar half-season...
cheers
Kadri's hotstreak and their ginormous overvaluing of Bozak might cost them another good player in Franson. I'm hoping we can reap the benefits of that.

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Old
08-16-2013, 12:40 AM
  #953
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
remember when we more or less agreed that
Kadri, Bozak, 2nd
was a 'middle ground' type of deal for Luo?
bet you're glad that didnt happen ...
lol, the market sure went south and Kadri went north after that ... though now you may have to pay the kid a boatload for his one stellar half-season...
cheers
I remember that a few people were calling me crazy for only asking for Kadri, Franson, Bozak, and a 2nd. Two of those guys look pretty good right now.

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08-16-2013, 01:45 AM
  #954
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
remember when we more or less agreed that
Kadri, Bozak, 2nd
was a 'middle ground' type of deal for Luo?
bet you're glad that didnt happen ...
lol, the market sure went south and Kadri went north after that ... though now you may have to pay the kid a boatload for his one stellar half-season...
cheers
Personally I find this notion with Kardi kind of silly... I mean what, the Leafs would only be willing to trade him if he wasn't a good player? If that was the case then why the hell would we want him?

His breakout year is exactly what you would have hoped could happen, and the reason why he should have been the key target in a deal for Luongo with Toronto. Contract aside Luongo is a more valuable player to a team than Kadri after all, it's not like he's breaking out into Steven Stamkos or John Tavares like franchise player here. He's looking like a first line talent, and a first line talent is what a competitive team would want to get when trading their top 10 goalie.

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08-16-2013, 03:45 AM
  #955
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Our own (print) media gets so down on the team sometimes that I think the other media markets feed off of that. Really, they aren't watching Canucks games 82+ times a year. Media members get chummy and they learn a lot about the team through our media members.

That said, as much as the fans being quiet, I think it's almost a bystander effect. Everyone wants to cheer, but no one will start it. The playoffs are a different story, everyone is pumped so it's always loud.
That may have been what MG was referring to when you said it was "up to you guys" to stop this team's image from being trashed in the media.

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Old
08-16-2013, 04:30 AM
  #956
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This is the wrong thread for this discussion, and any post after this will be deleted. This is the Luongo thread, and it's for Luongo only do lets keep it that way. You can debate Ehrhoff in the appropriate threads, there are plenty of options I'm sure.

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08-16-2013, 07:03 AM
  #957
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Originally Posted by RandV View Post
His breakout year is exactly what you would have hoped could happen, and the reason why he should have been the key target in a deal for Luongo with Toronto. Contract aside Luongo is a more valuable player to a team than Kadri after all, it's not like he's breaking out into Steven Stamkos or John Tavares like franchise player here. He's looking like a first line talent, and a first line talent is what a competitive team would want to get when trading their top 10 goalie.
"Contract aside" - this whole trade was about the contract. You can't just put it aside.

However, 1-for-1, and if both players' rights were available for $0, today, I would venture a guess that 30/30 NHL teams would choose Kadri.

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08-16-2013, 08:54 AM
  #958
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
"Contract aside" - this whole trade was about the contract. You can't just put it aside.

However, 1-for-1, and if both players' rights were available for $0, today, I would venture a guess that 30/30 NHL teams would choose Kadri.
Really? Because I think a few teams, like Pittsburgh and TB may choose Luongo. Kadri is a scoring forward, who's fairly weak defensively. He wouldn't add much to teams that already score at a high clip. Especially considering what he'll likely demand in his next contract.

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08-16-2013, 09:33 AM
  #959
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Grass is greener mentality. Things went bad, so if Gillis did everything the opposite, there is the assumption things would have gone good... even though doing things different would just yield different problems. Crisis management is the fact of managing an NHL team. There is no perfect track record.
This.

Imagine it was leaked that we passed on Ballard for the asking price. Everyone would have been saying that having an extra top 4 defensemen might have been the difference in winning the SCF when Hamhuis went down, and that Gillis is an idiot for not paying the price in our closing window. Instead, everyone criticizes the deal and says he should have known better. It's pretty easy being an armchair GM eh?

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Old
08-16-2013, 09:48 AM
  #960
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The Luongo-Schneider saga in review

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08-16-2013, 11:03 AM
  #961
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
The full quote is this:



The way I read that is Luongo turned down TOR twice... Not that he was willing to go there. The other two cities stand apart from that. So in essence, Lu nixed three places to go to, one on multiple occasions, and perhaps some more we don't know about... That's being awfully active with one's NTC, only to be left crying at the deadline, putting it solely on his contract.

Something about this situation just screams bad plays on the part of Lupien/Luongo.


Speaking strictly for myself: There is not a shadow of a doubt in my mind that Gillis/Burke could have gotten a deal done surrounding Luongo/Schenn as the main pieces. He was moveable... he just didn't want to move to TOR.
If this is true, i really don't know why. We Leaf fans, albeit fanatics, aren't really that tough on players....and the team seems to be on the upkick. Missing the playoffs for a decade tends to lower your standards somewhat. Oh well....water under the bridge i guess.

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Old
08-16-2013, 11:27 AM
  #962
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Originally Posted by Nuckles View Post
I remember that a few people were calling me crazy for only asking for Kadri, Franson, Bozak, and a 2nd. Two of those guys look pretty good right now.
I would've been happy with Lu for Kadri straight up.

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Old
08-16-2013, 11:45 AM
  #963
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Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
Diva is a little harsh considering how professional he's acted through this debacle. It's been the media that's been starting and ballooning the drama to epic proportions. Without the media stirring the pot, Luongo would just keep on keepin on and no one would be calling him a diva and trouble maker, etc.

While a lot of being reported is true to a point, the media just seems to enjoy making the situation look worse than it probably is.

That's my take.
Here's the thing about his on ice professionalism he is under contract. Have we reached a point as a society where living up to the terms you are being richly compensated for needs to be applauded?
Yeah-if the media didn't report on the rumors few would think he's diva but again he did nix a few deals looking for an ideal situation to the detriment of team.
Whether we learn of it through the media or have no knowledge of it doesn't make him any less of diva-it just means fewer fans will know.

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08-16-2013, 12:22 PM
  #964
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Here's the thing about his on ice professionalism he is under contract.
I don't think the poster you're responding to was limiting his statement to Luongo's "professionalism" on the ice, so you don't really need to take it as an invitation to the "have we reached a point as a society" type complaining.

Luongo has for the most part been professional about this entire situation off the ice, in the media and (as far as we know) in the dressing room as well. That's what is worth noting, not the fact that he complied with his contract by showing up for games and practices.

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Old
08-16-2013, 12:36 PM
  #966
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
I don't think the poster you're responding to was limiting his statement to Luongo's "professionalism" on the ice, so you don't really need to take it as an invitation to the "have we reached a point as a society" type complaining.

Luongo has for the most part been professional about this entire situation off the ice, in the media and (as far as we know) in the dressing room as well. That's what is worth noting, not the fact that he complied with his contract by showing up for games and practices.
Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion it is a message board after all-

This off ice professionalism was demonstrated in your opinion how?
Was it the part where he asked to be moved & then nixed every deal put in front of him to the point where he has no trade value at all? I am just wondering how much responsibility he has in this mess in your opinion?

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Old
08-16-2013, 12:50 PM
  #967
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Originally Posted by freakydave View Post
Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion it is a message board after all-

This off ice professionalism was demonstrated in your opinion how?
Was it the part where he asked to be moved & then nixed every deal put in front of him to the point where he has no trade value at all? I am just wondering how much responsibility he has in this mess in your opinion?
Source? Link? Didn't Luongo say MG never asked him to waive his NTC?

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Old
08-16-2013, 03:15 PM
  #968
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Source? Link? Didn't Luongo say MG never asked him to waive his NTC?
Even if so, that is a bit of a weasel-word answer, as it wouldn't have gotten to the point of needing to ask him, if they already knew one way or another that he wasn't willing to. If what Botchford says is true – "In both instances, Luongo let the Canucks know he wasn’t interested in going to Hogtown and those deals died on the vine" – then they wouldn't have bothered formally asking, even if it amounts to the same thing.

Don't forget, for the longest time, many here insisted that Luongo had never asked for a trade, because he never worded it that way. But it's clear from Gilman's quote in the same article ("I understand where he’s coming from. He requested a trade after the 2012 season. He anticipated he was going to be traded.") that the Canucks sure took it that way.

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08-16-2013, 03:38 PM
  #969
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Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion it is a message board after all-
How magnanimous of you.

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This off ice professionalism was demonstrated in your opinion how?
Was it the part where he asked to be moved & then nixed every deal put in front of him to the point where he has no trade value at all?
Look you obviously have your own ideas about this and I don't care what they are, frankly. My point is just that you ignored a considerable part of what another poster said to make it easier to disagree with and then proceeded down the "where are we as a society when.." in response to a thing nobody actually said.

Now that you're actually acknowledging the rest of what was conveyed in that statement I'll leave the work of actually picking over the wreckage of this situation to you and someone with far more patience than I who wishes to engage in that kind of pointless who-can-out-revise-who competition.

(For example I could say "everyone knew Luongo would be traded once the team decided Cory was their guy, he was very much a team player graciously endorsing Schneider and asking for a trade when he could have refused, and yet here you are using that trade request to malign him a year later.." but again I've no real interest in attempting to change anyone's mind on the subject.)

Quote:
I am just wondering how much responsibility he has in this mess in your opinion?
I'm sure all sides of this regret choices that they made along the way; Luongo is no exception.

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08-16-2013, 03:54 PM
  #970
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Even if so, that is a bit of a weasel-word answer, as it wouldn't have gotten to the point of needing to ask him, if they already knew one way or another that he wasn't willing to. If what Botchford says is true – "In both instances, Luongo let the Canucks know he wasn’t interested in going to Hogtown and those deals died on the vine" – then they wouldn't have bothered formally asking, even if it amounts to the same thing.
If that's the case, then why was Gillis negotiating with Nonis up to the last few hours of deadline day? Roberto just woke up one day and decided that he'd be OK with a move to Toronto? I have a hard time believing it.

Just a theory of mine, but I think Gillis may well have let it be known that he refused to negotiate with Burke, which led to Burke's sudden and unexpected firing. Gillis may have even strung along Burke, and maybe had reached an agreement in principle, and then let Toronto know that he refused to finalize a deal with Burke. Nonis then got his revenge at the deadline, stringing along Gillis until he was basically on his knees. Very possible, IMO.

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Old
08-16-2013, 03:57 PM
  #971
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
How magnanimous of you.



Look you obviously have your own ideas about this and I don't care what they are, frankly. My point is just that you ignored a considerable part of what another poster said to make it easier to disagree with and then proceeded down the "where are we as a society when.." in response to a thing nobody actually said.

Now that you're actually acknowledging the rest of what was conveyed in that statement I'll leave the work of actually picking over the wreckage of this situation to you and someone with far more patience than I who wishes to engage in that kind of pointless who-can-out-revise-who competition.

(For example I could say "everyone knew Luongo would be traded once the team decided Cory was their guy, he was very much a team player graciously endorsing Schneider and asking for a trade when he could have refused, and yet here you are using that trade request to malign him a year later.." but again I've no real interest in attempting to change anyone's mind on the subject.)



I'm sure all sides of this regret choices that they made along the way; Luongo is no exception.
I did no such thing -re read his post & my entire response I did NOT ignore a considerable part or any part of his post.
But you didn't agree with or didn't like my opinion so you chimed in with a condescending tone. not uncommon around here

im out

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Old
08-16-2013, 04:07 PM
  #972
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Originally Posted by freakydave View Post
I did no such thing -re read his post & my entire response I did NOT ignore a considerable part or any part of his post.
But you didn't agree with or didn't like my opinion so you chimed in with a condescending tone. not uncommon around here

im out
Sorry I just figured the "he allegedly used his no trade clause to his advantage and therefore is not a professional" part was beneath comment.

You may disagree, you may even think it turns things around to the point of rescuing the part of your post I chose to address; you are certainly entitled to your opinion it is a message board after all.

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08-16-2013, 04:24 PM
  #973
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Just a theory of mine, but I think Gillis may well have let it be known that he refused to negotiate with Burke, which led to Burke's sudden and unexpected firing. Gillis may have even strung along Burke, and maybe had reached an agreement in principle, and then let Toronto know that he refused to finalize a deal with Burke. Nonis then got his revenge at the deadline, stringing along Gillis until he was basically on his knees. Very possible, IMO.
Your little theory sounds more like a hollywood rom-com. No owner or board of managing directors is going to fire their GM because another GM "let's it be known" he will not work with said GM on a player trade, at least not in reality. Burke was fired for being Burke, the new owners wanted nothing to do with his way of doing things so they sent him packing. Burke is a good GM and some would say better than most but, much like Torts, he is going to have to change his way of dealing with people if he wants to stay in the NHL. GMMG nor the Luongo deal had anything to do with Burke's firing, Burke has only himself to blame.

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Old
08-16-2013, 04:26 PM
  #974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
"Contract aside" - this whole trade was about the contract. You can't just put it aside.

However, 1-for-1, and if both players' rights were available for $0, today, I would venture a guess that 30/30 NHL teams would choose Kadri.
I would venture a guess that you are wrong.

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Old
08-16-2013, 04:45 PM
  #975
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
If this is true, i really don't know why. We Leaf fans, albeit fanatics, aren't really that tough on players....and the team seems to be on the upkick. Missing the playoffs for a decade tends to lower your standards somewhat. Oh well....water under the bridge i guess.

Had to be the hope that FLA would pony up eventually. No other reason is as apparent.

In hindsight, it looks like very poor missteps by Luongo's camp cost him the opportunity to move. If it was simply about just going anywhere to be a starter, then he would not have been this active with his NTC. At that point, rejecting any location would be foolish.

Still, it's interesting Gillis gets the wrap for asking for too much all the way through, knowing that Luongo had a part to play in deals.

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