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Did we underachieve this year?

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Old
04-12-2016, 02:24 PM
  #1
Jetfaninflorida
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Did we underachieve this year?

The talk in Ottawa is that they underachieved this year, so changes had to be made. They had 85 points this year compared to 99 points last year. Enough to bring in a new GM and clean house on the coaching staff.

I have to think that we underachieved this year. With a four game winning streak to end the year, we ended up with 78 points this year compared to 99 points last year. In fact, only two teams dropped more in points this year (compared to last year) than the Jets. The Habs and the Canucks. But it's pretty clear from the interviews that no significant changes will be made in Jets land.

I am not saying that we should pull an Ottawa and clean house. But I am a bit puzzled that there appears to be no sweat anywhere with such a terrible meltdown from last year. If we want to attribute our let down to special teams and goaltending, then shouldn't there at least be changes there - coaching or players or both? And Jet land seems to be just fine with what's going on - let's just carry on. For me, it seems likes a bit too much apathy. How do you create a culture of winning if when you fail, everyone just says oh well, see you next year?

So then I started thinking - maybe we didn't underachieve this year. Maybe it's just me that believes that, or I am in the minority. Maybe most people feel like we had a good year, or a decent year or a year that was expected.

So I ask - did we underachieve this year? Or is it just me?

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04-12-2016, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetfaninflorida View Post
The talk in Ottawa is that they underachieved this year, so changes had to be made. They had 85 points this year compared to 99 points last year. Enough to bring in a new GM and clean house on the coaching staff.

I have to think that we underachieved this year. With a four game winning streak to end the year, we ended up with 78 points this year compared to 99 points last year. In fact, only two teams dropped more in points this year (compared to last year) than the Jets. The Habs and the Canucks. But it's pretty clear from the interviews that no significant changes will be made in Jets land.

I am not saying that we should pull an Ottawa and clean house. But I am a bit puzzled that there appears to be no sweat anywhere with such a terrible meltdown from last year. If we want to attribute our let down to special teams and goaltending, then shouldn't there at least be changes there - coaching or players or both? And Jet land seems to be just fine with what's going on - let's just carry on. For me, it seems likes a bit too much apathy. How do you create a culture of winning if when you fail, everyone just says oh well, see you next year?

So then I started thinking - maybe we didn't underachieve this year. Maybe it's just me that believes that, or I am in the minority. Maybe most people feel like we had a good year, or a decent year or a year that was expected.

So I ask - did we underachieve this year? Or is it just me?
It seems to me the being an underachiever is an argument against making changes. I don't get why that would make Ottawa clean house.

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04-12-2016, 02:33 PM
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We underachieved moreso than Ottawa, in my opinion. The fact there isn't a huge uproar here probably comes down to a bunch of different factors.

1) Goaltending is a relatively easy fix
2) Still on a high from getting our team back
3) Soft media
4) Most fans have bought into the youth movement

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04-12-2016, 02:33 PM
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Yes I believe we did underachieve. Although our goaltending reverted back to its terrible sv%, which you could easily argue was expected.

Goaltending will be changed. The jury is out on special teams until next year, but they certainly recognize it as a problem. I recall they mentioned trying out some different guys on the PK, so I expect some changes. But I would have liked to see some new assistant coaches as well.

In the big picture, we are seeing a dramatic change. Which is the youth movement. But it is a multiple year process (heh). But it is certainly not like we're stagnating with the same players. It's a radical shift, but just not the kind of quick fix through trade/UFA that some people want to see after a team has a dismal year.

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04-12-2016, 02:33 PM
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Totally, it was a throw away season when it really didn't have to be!

No improvement in penalty situation until final quarter of season.

Rush to send the Jets BEST goalie back to the AHL before out of playoff contention.

Refusal to sign Stemp while signing Raffl (30 year old who never played in the NHL) for about the same $!

Poor special teams again (the kind that gets you fired, see Cameron in Ottawa)

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04-12-2016, 02:38 PM
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I don't feel we underachieved based on our offseason moves.

I do believe we overachieved last season which set an unrealistic bar. Hutch had an outstanding hot streak before the all star break when Pavs played like Pavs and then Pavs hit a scorching hot streak to squeak us into the playoffs. Don't get me wrong it was awesome seeing the whiteout and the playoff atmosphere but based on our offseason moves it was not happening this season. jmo.

lots of good stuff to look forward to next season, I am actually more excited for this coming season then I was for the current one.

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04-12-2016, 02:39 PM
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Did we under achieve this year?

Really? We have to even ask this question? Yes we under achieved by all standards. No question. Only question is how much did we under achieve?

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04-12-2016, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetfaninflorida View Post
The talk in Ottawa is that they underachieved this year, so changes had to be made. They had 85 points this year compared to 99 points last year. Enough to bring in a new GM and clean house on the coaching staff.

I have to think that we underachieved this year. With a four game winning streak to end the year, we ended up with 78 points this year compared to 99 points last year. In fact, only two teams dropped more in points this year (compared to last year) than the Jets. The Habs and the Canucks. But it's pretty clear from the interviews that no significant changes will be made in Jets land.

I am not saying that we should pull an Ottawa and clean house. But I am a bit puzzled that there appears to be no sweat anywhere with such a terrible meltdown from last year. If we want to attribute our let down to special teams and goaltending, then shouldn't there at least be changes there - coaching or players or both? And Jet land seems to be just fine with what's going on - let's just carry on. For me, it seems likes a bit too much apathy. How do you create a culture of winning if when you fail, everyone just says oh well, see you next year?

So then I started thinking - maybe we didn't underachieve this year. Maybe it's just me that believes that, or I am in the minority. Maybe most people feel like we had a good year, or a decent year or a year that was expected.

So I ask - did we underachieve this year? Or is it just me?
Ottawa cleaned house because there is a very different plan in place there and their ownership has come out numerous times stating that they need to make the playoffs to me money. There is an expectation to make the playoffs there to be a viable business.

There is a very different situations here which allows our ownership/management to conduct business as they see fit.

As for the question. We definitely underachiever due to poor goaltending, discipline and special teams. But given that our goaltending would have prevented us from making the playoffs even if our special teams had been league average in ok grabbing another blue chip prospect. Who knows we may win the lottory and grab a franchise guy.

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04-12-2016, 02:48 PM
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Anytime you drop off in points and a lot of other categories, you under achieved.

If not for the end of season surge we would have been neck and neck with Edmonton and Toronto, and anytime you are at the same place in the standings as Edmonton and Toronto... you UNDERACHIEVED.

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04-12-2016, 02:48 PM
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Fun fact:

Jets are 10th place in even strength (5v5) goal differential over the past two seasons combined.

The same team barely got in the POs one season and almost was a top 3 seed for draft lottery the next.

I think in many ways they underachieved their talent level: some due to luck, some due to system, some due to weak links in chain having a larger impact on Jets than some other teams.

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04-12-2016, 03:05 PM
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Total underachievement. This year is being sold as a youth movement was just a smoke screen for the underachievement. Our lineup to start the year was adding Ehlers (who would of made any team in the NHL), Petan (who should never made the team being on the 4th line playing 6 minutes) and Copp (who probably should of started with the Moose and rarely played). I do not consider that a "youth movement." I would call that forcing two young guys to play because our GM never did his job and had no other choices.

We only really had the youth movement due to injuries, which our young players got called up and gained valuable experience in the NHL. We do have a promising future because of Chevy's great drafting. However, Chevy and Maurice have now have the ingredients but can they make the dinner? There is no reason this team can not be back in the playoffs next season. They put in a lot of thought and effort in "tanking" this year in trying to lose. This might be a novel idea, but how about putting in some thought and effort and trying to win this upcoming season. Let's see if they have the fortitude to make the correct lineup decisions in regards to a starting goalie, Stuart, Thorburn and Peluso. I have my doubts. I bet it will be the same old smoke screen and "youth movement" again next season.

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04-12-2016, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jiho View Post
Total underachievement. This year is being sold as a youth movement was just a smoke screen for the underachievement. Our lineup to start the year was adding Ehlers (who would of made any team in the NHL), Petan (who should never made the team being on the 4th line playing 6 minutes) and Copp (who probably should of started with the Moose and rarely played). I do not consider that a "youth movement." I would call that forcing two young guys to play because our GM never did his job and had no other choices.

We only really had the youth movement due to injuries, which our young players got called up and gained valuable experience in the NHL. We do have a promising future because of Chevy's great drafting. However, Chevy and Maurice have now have the ingredients but can they make the dinner? There is no reason this team can not be back in the playoffs next season. They put in a lot of thought and effort in "tanking" this year in trying to lose. This might be a novel idea, but how about putting in some thought and effort and trying to win this upcoming season. Let's see if they have the fortitude to make the correct lineup decisions in regards to a starting goalie, Stuart, Thorburn and Peluso. I have my doubts. I bet it will be the same old smoke screen and "youth movement" again next season.
Agreed with this. Petan and Copp should have had to really knock our socks off to have started on the team as well as Ehlers. Stempniak and a 3rd line C should have been signed (or maybe Burmi would have been fine?) so that Lowry wouldn't have been forced to be 3C so soon yet either. The fact he came out so strong in his 1st year had us all expecting his development to keep trending at the same exponential rate and that wasn't fair to the young guy.

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04-12-2016, 04:16 PM
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Underachievement relative to what?

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04-12-2016, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Jetfaninflorida View Post
The talk in Ottawa is that they underachieved this year, so changes had to be made. They had 85 points this year compared to 99 points last year. Enough to bring in a new GM and clean house on the coaching staff.

I have to think that we underachieved this year. With a four game winning streak to end the year, we ended up with 78 points this year compared to 99 points last year. In fact, only two teams dropped more in points this year (compared to last year) than the Jets. The Habs and the Canucks. But it's pretty clear from the interviews that no significant changes will be made in Jets land.

I am not saying that we should pull an Ottawa and clean house. But I am a bit puzzled that there appears to be no sweat anywhere with such a terrible meltdown from last year. If we want to attribute our let down to special teams and goaltending, then shouldn't there at least be changes there - coaching or players or both? And Jet land seems to be just fine with what's going on - let's just carry on. For me, it seems likes a bit too much apathy. How do you create a culture of winning if when you fail, everyone just says oh well, see you next year?

So then I started thinking - maybe we didn't underachieve this year. Maybe it's just me that believes that, or I am in the minority. Maybe most people feel like we had a good year, or a decent year or a year that was expected.

So I ask - did we underachieve this year? Or is it just me?
Yes we underachieved this year. Unlike Ottawa (and Calgary) we played to our record last year.

Ottawa rode a ridiculous hot streak by a minor league goaltender. This year they fell back to about where they belonged. Coaching is part of that though and they have decided that in order to improve they need a change there. Fine. Has nothing to do with us.

However a big part of the reason we underachieved was coaching related. I don't think there is complacency in this corner of Jetland. The consensus here seems to be that all the assistants should be fired.

As for other changes, we had 11 players play their first or second career NHL games this year. Add that to last years rookies and you get a pretty big number. Most of those players will be with the team opening day next fall. There is a lot of change taking place. We will see opening day how many of the new faces are starting. Unfortunately it doesn't include the assistant coaches. sigh Not perfect, but there is reaction happening.

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04-12-2016, 05:16 PM
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Yes we did...but I think it was by design though...so no one is really losing their mind about it yet.

I think this year could have been avoided quite easily with a few simple moves and we would have been back in the post season again this year.

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04-12-2016, 05:53 PM
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We finished right where I thought they would in the division.

We overachieved the year before and a little underahieved this year.

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04-12-2016, 05:58 PM
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Did we underachieve?
Not really ... 5 wins from the playoffs. Goaltending and STs play was the difference but throw in the youth movement ... It was expected.
Seriously shows me a strong SC contender with 6 starting rookies ... it would never happen.

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04-12-2016, 05:59 PM
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I think this group under-achieved, but we can be more specific.

Goaltending - I am not sure they under-achieved, or just played to their basic capability (Pavs and Hutch). I think we might have expected a bit higher performance from those two, but expecting last year's performance was unrealistic. They could have improved the goaltending by playing Hellebuyck earlier and later in the season. In that regard, I think their goaltending could have been improved if they played Hellebuyck more. The late season demotion to the Moose might have been a stealth tank tactic that was only partially effective.

Defense - I think that Enstrom had a bit of a down year, relative to previous seasons. Perhaps that was partners, or maybe just a down year. Trouba was less effective than his first couple of seasons, but that was also due to usage. Which brings me to the worst aspect of the Jets defense - Stuart. I think his played declined this season (if that's possible), and his deployment was depressing. The only positive was that his ice-time was cut by almost 3 minutes / game compared to last year.

Forwards - Scheifele and Wheeler had great seasons, and Ehlers was a nice addition. However, a few forwards had disappointing seasons. Ladd had a big drop-off in his play, which was a drag on performance since he got a ton of ice-time, including special teams assignments. Perreault had a down year in terms of productivity. He was still a positive in shot metrics, but 3 goals and 10 primary points in 71 games puts him in with Copp and Burmi and Lowry in terms of even-strength production overall, and below them in primary points per 60 minutes. Lowry had a worse year than last year, which was a disappointment.

Special teams: Just horrible, and clearly below what they should be. The PP was bad, but early in the year the PK was worse. They should be able to be better.

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04-12-2016, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Puckatron 3000 View Post
Yes I believe we did underachieve. Although our goaltending reverted back to its terrible sv%, which you could easily argue was expected.

Goaltending will be changed. The jury is out on special teams until next year, but they certainly recognize it as a problem. I recall they mentioned trying out some different guys on the PK, so I expect some changes. But I would have liked to see some new assistant coaches as well.

In the big picture, we are seeing a dramatic change. Which is the youth movement. But it is a multiple year process (heh). But it is certainly not like we're stagnating with the same players. It's a radical shift, but just not the kind of quick fix through trade/UFA that some people want to see after a team has a dismal year.
You didn't use the word 'patience' once and I want more process out of you!

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04-12-2016, 06:28 PM
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Totally, it was a throw away season when it really didn't have to be!

No improvement in penalty situation until final quarter of season.

Rush to send the Jets BEST goalie back to the AHL before out of playoff contention.

Refusal to sign Stemp while signing Raffl (30 year old who never played in the NHL) for about the same $!

Poor special teams again (the kind that gets you fired, see Cameron in Ottawa)
Other than some minor quibbles I mostly agree Sip. That doesn't happen too often.

I accepted the youth movement reluctantly. I would have preferred to keep most of last year's team together and just fix its biggest weaknesses, Stu, Pav and Thor above the 4th line. I think we could have been a play-off team again and maybe even win a round and still feed our youth in slowly. JMO

Special teams and penalties are coaching issues. If our coaches can't solve those things we need new coaches.

We were out of PO contention before Helle was sent down. Not mathematically eliminated but we knew we were not making it.

Stemp would have cost more than Raffl but still cheap. Just quibbles.

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04-12-2016, 07:30 PM
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I thought they overachieved last year. Pavelec had a career year plus the Jets boosted their performance by making trades to bring players in. Despite all that, they got swept in the first round.

So, what do you do? Try to be a fringe playoff team by keeping vets? Kinda pointless when we have a bunch of young skill players knocking on the door. The offseason moves told us that we should expect to take steps back from last year.

In terms of underperformance, I guess not getting the same goaltending as last year dragged us down - but our goalies just reverted to their usual performance. Special teams underperformed. Having major UFAs unaddressed until near the trade deadline probably hurt the team.

So, overall, probably a bit of an underperformance, but I think they made the right offseason moves if the franchise is serious about being more than a fringe playoff team. TBH, I'd rather develop those players while our division is so hot, and when they blossom, perhaps our division will have weakened.

I hope to see more youth next year with noticeable progress.

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04-12-2016, 09:03 PM
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So it seems like a pretty solid majority feel like we underachieved.

So then I have to ask the question that I have been asking myself. Is there too much apathy in this organization and / or in the Jet fan base? Will we have a culture of winning if when we fail, everyone just says see you next year without expecting any significant changes (coaches, problem players)? Or is everyone just resigned to the fact that it is out of our control so it's pointless to talk about it / express it loudly / expect it from this organization?

I am not trying to be a shirt disturber. I think the topic is worthy of open, honest discussion.

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04-12-2016, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jetfaninflorida View Post
So it seems like a pretty solid majority feel like we underachieved.

So then I have to ask the question that I have been asking myself. Is there too much apathy in this organization and / or in the Jet fan base? Will we have a culture of winning if when we fail, everyone just says see you next year without expecting any significant changes (coaches, problem players)? Or is everyone just resigned to the fact that it is out of our control so it's pointless to talk about it / express it loudly / expect it from this organization?

I am not trying to be a shirt disturber. I think the topic is worthy of open, honest discussion.
Ladd underperformed this year, but he's no longer an issue.

Goaltending still needs to be fixed - seems that Hellebuyck is the Jets planned solution.

Perreault had a down year, in my opinion. I think he'll bounce back. Same thing for Enstrom.

They need more skill to compete. I hope the new young players can be the solution.

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04-12-2016, 09:27 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Ladd underperformed this year, but he's no longer an issue.

Goaltending still needs to be fixed - seems that Hellebuyck is the Jets planned solution.

Perreault had a down year, in my opinion. I think he'll bounce back. Same thing for Enstrom.

They need more skill to compete. I hope the new young players can be the solution.
We all hope that, Chevy most of all. His job depends on it.


Last edited by YWGinYYZ: 04-12-2016 at 09:30 PM. Reason: Fixed quote tag
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04-12-2016, 09:27 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by jiho View Post
Total underachievement. This year is being sold as a youth movement was just a smoke screen for the underachievement. Our lineup to start the year was adding Ehlers (who would of made any team in the NHL), Petan (who should never made the team being on the 4th line playing 6 minutes) and Copp (who probably should of started with the Moose and rarely played). I do not consider that a "youth movement." I would call that forcing two young guys to play because our GM never did his job and had no other choices.

We only really had the youth movement due to injuries, which our young players got called up and gained valuable experience in the NHL. We do have a promising future because of Chevy's great drafting. However, Chevy and Maurice have now have the ingredients but can they make the dinner? There is no reason this team can not be back in the playoffs next season. They put in a lot of thought and effort in "tanking" this year in trying to lose. This might be a novel idea, but how about putting in some thought and effort and trying to win this upcoming season. Let's see if they have the fortitude to make the correct lineup decisions in regards to a starting goalie, Stuart, Thorburn and Peluso. I have my doubts. I bet it will be the same old smoke screen and "youth movement" again next season.
There is a lot of truth in what you say. I don't agree with your ending but I have to admit you could be right. But I think our young players played their way onto next years starting lineup. We shall see. If Thor, Pav and Stu start opening night in the fall I for one will be royally pissed off. If we suffer this season for 8 or 9 over all and then set out to do it again next year I will probably get myself banned from this board.

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