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Kovalchuk Retirement

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Old
07-11-2013, 04:59 PM
  #51
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Him going to another team is so far down the list on serious issues related to this retirement that it's actually kind of scary. This doesn't happen if they are worried that he will go to another NHL team.

The bigger issues right now are related to whether or not he's wanting to play in the KHL. If he doesn't want to and actually retire, problem solved. If he does want to play in the KHL, holy crap. Then the questions become, what's the current status of the MOU between the NHL and KHL. The contract may be voided but does what of the non-compete clause. Does the IIHF have the balls to follow through on what they said regarding poaching? Will the Russian Federation listen to them? Can they even not listen to them? At what point would the IOC get involved if it gets really ugly?

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07-11-2013, 05:00 PM
  #52
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I found this, a list of NHL By-Laws that discusses VRL. Anyone know more about it?

http://bizofhockey.com/docs/NHLBy-Laws.pdf

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07-11-2013, 05:00 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaronIndian View Post
Can anyone well versed with CBA explain what the terms of Voluntarily Retired List form are?
I believe you can't return to the NHL for one year if you officially retire in this manner. I'm not 100% sure though.

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07-11-2013, 05:01 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
Did some digging.

kdb posted this in 2011. Obviously that was under the old CBA so things may have changed, but at least it's an insight:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/ar.../t-985609.html
That's correct but that's only IF you're deciding to follow the rules. The KHL and the Russian Hockey Federation may decide to simply give the NHL and the IIHF the finger and say "we're doing whatever the hell we want". At that point, it gets problematic.

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07-11-2013, 05:05 PM
  #55
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The fact that a bunch or Lin term contracts were signed and only jersey got punished was bill****. See luongo dipoetro, hossa, etc.
a first was taken away and that was very stiff.

How many times has a team lost a player like this were there was no injury. The rangers got compensated with a first rounder for the loss of cherapanov iirc. Kovalchuk didn't die, but he is a bigger loss to the organization than cherapanov was. It wasn't a sympathy pick given to the rangers. The devils lose arguably a top ten player in the game and they should at least be given back their first.
If not, losing a star player like this and not being able to rebuild ASAP which is what thy may have to do, may devestate this franchise.

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07-11-2013, 05:06 PM
  #56
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Here's my question: he sits out one year, goes to KHL, whatever. He comes back to NHL. Technically he's a FA (or does have to pass waivers)? If not, what's to stop him from coming back and signing a much more friendly cap hit again with the Devils?

And if he did that, would that not open up a loophole for other players deemed large contracts to simply retire, wait a year and then resign with said team at more favorable rate?

It would just look awfully bad optically if he re-signed win the Devs in a year I would think.

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07-11-2013, 05:07 PM
  #57
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So if I'm understanding this right, Kovalchuk's contract will not count against the cap for the Devils going forward? They will have to pay back the 'advantage' they received due to the front-loading of the contract over the next 12 years?

I thought as a part of the new CBA contracts would stay on the books post retirement or is there some kind of grandfathering clause in place?

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07-11-2013, 05:07 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LPHabsFan View Post
That's correct but that's only IF you're deciding to follow the rules. The KHL and the Russian Hockey Federation may decide to simply give the NHL and the IIHF the finger and say "we're doing whatever the hell we want". At that point, it gets problematic.
True. By rights the Devils have the ability to hold Kovalchuk from playing hockey for 3 years. If he signed with the KHL during that time the NHL and/or the Devils (Not sure who it would fall on) would basically need to complain to the IIHF and see if they could do anything. About the most I can see happening is that Kovalchuk could be banned from IIHF events.

However, the Devils can also say see ya and let Kovalchuk walk, giving him notice that he can go play in the KHL.

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07-11-2013, 05:08 PM
  #59
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Taking the example of one of the recent draft picks for the HAbs, Jacob De La Rose. He's under contract for one more year for Leksand in the SEL... He's been drafted by the Windsor Spitfire in the OHL. He's strongly voiced that he wanted to play in the OHL next season. Based on the Kovalchuck precedent, can he now retire from the SEL to play in NA?

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07-11-2013, 05:10 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryzard of Oz View Post
So if I'm understanding this right, Kovalchuk's contract will not count against the cap for the Devils going forward? They will have to pay back the 'advantage' they received due to the front-loading of the contract over the next 12 years?

I thought as a part of the new CBA contracts would stay on the books post retirement or is there some kind of grandfathering clause in place?
Kovalchuk's contract comes off the books when he retires. The only time a contract stays on post retirement is in the 35+ case.

However, in the case that a player retires when he's been paid more actual dollars than his salary cap hit the team owes a recapture penalty.

Kovalchuk had a cumulative salary of $23 million over the first 3 years of his deal and a cumulative cap hit of $20 million. Therefore the Devils owe $3 million divided equally among all 12 remaining years of the contract which is $250,000 per year

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07-11-2013, 05:10 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Taking the example of one of the recent draft picks for the HAbs, Jacob De La Rose. He's under contract for one more year for Leksand in the SEL... He's been drafted by the Windsor Spitfire in the OHL. He's strongly voiced that he wanted to play in the OHL next season. Based on the Kovalchuck precedent, can he now retire from the SEL to play in NA?
No. There's a transfer agreement in place there. And more to the point, Jersey will have to give him permission to play in the KHL. If they don't, he risks being banned from international competitions

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07-11-2013, 05:12 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
Here's my question: he sits out one year, goes to KHL, whatever. He comes back to NHL. Technically he's a FA (or does have to pass waivers)? If not, what's to stop him from coming back and signing a much more friendly cap hit again with the Devils?

And if he did that, would that not open up a loophole for other players deemed large contracts to simply retire, wait a year and then resign with said team at more favorable rate?

It would just look awfully bad optically if he re-signed win the Devs in a year I would think.
According to what the by laws say it appears that the Devils still own his rights for as long as his original contract would have held.

However, yes, in 1 year he could come back to the Devils and sign a new deal, but the cap recapture penalty prevents teams from gaining any actual cap benefit from this, so there's really no reason for them to participate.

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07-11-2013, 05:13 PM
  #63
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Kovalchuk is not going to be banned from the Olympics, no matter what NJD or the NHL decide to do.

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07-11-2013, 05:14 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
Jersey will have to give him permission to play in the KHL. If they don't, he risks being banned from international competitions
So this signature of retirement paperwork is more for ceremonial reasons, it doesn't really impact in any way his ease of transfer to the KHL?

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07-11-2013, 05:17 PM
  #65
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This whole thing smells fishy.

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07-11-2013, 05:21 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
This whole thing smells fishy.
I'm holding right now on fishy-ness, but as I questioned earlier-what happens if a year from now he comes back and re-signs with the Devs for a much friendlier cap hit/term.

THEN I'll think things are fishy....

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07-11-2013, 05:22 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
So this signature of retirement paperwork is more for ceremonial reason, it doesn't really impact in any way his ease of transfer to the KHL?
The retirement paperwork moves him to the league's Voluntarily Retired List. It's how Kovalchuk officially retires from the NHL (as opposed to not retiring and simply not playing like Nabokov or Thomas)

Once a player is on that list he "may not re-enter organized hockey, professional or amateur, as a player for a period of three years...without the written consent of the Member Club."

So basically step 1 is him saying "I don't want to play in the NHL any more" and step 2 is "I want to play in the KHL" In the first case the Devils sign the paperwork as a formality, in the second case it's purely their choice if they sign it or not.

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07-11-2013, 05:22 PM
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Looks like it's unlikely we'll ever see him in the NHL while he's still in top form again:
Quote:
NortonSports @brianlawton9 If #Kovy signs retirement papers, he needs permission of all 30 @NHL teams to ever return to #NHL, u think he gets that???
http://twitter.com/NortonSports/stat...33854166765568

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07-11-2013, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
I'm holding right now on fishy-ness, but as I questioned earlier-what happens if a year from now he comes back and re-signs with the Devs for a much friendlier cap hit/term.

THEN I'll think things are fishy....
I'm not sure how it would get much friendlier. He was only making 6.666 million on the cap.

Considering the 250k/year penalty a new contract would have to have an AAV of less ~than 6.4 million to actually save any cap room.

And sure, he could sign for less actual dollars so the Devils wouldn't be hit with a large cap recapture penalty later, but that'd be voluntarily giving up guaranteed dollars.

Seems like a stretch to think the team got him to give up million of dollars in guaranteed money just to save maybe 1 million on a cap hit (if he signs a generous deal)

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07-11-2013, 05:29 PM
  #70
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@TSNBobMcKenzie: 2. If NJ had so chosen, it could've blocked Kovalchuk from the KHL by tolling contract. But NJ isn't doing that, he's free to go to KHL.
Seems Jersey wasn't interested in fighting this.

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07-11-2013, 05:30 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Puckclektr View Post
The fact that a bunch or Lin term contracts were signed and only jersey got punished was bill****. See luongo dipoetro, hossa, etc.
a first was taken away and that was very stiff.

How many times has a team lost a player like this were there was no injury. The rangers got compensated with a first rounder for the loss of cherapanov iirc. Kovalchuk didn't die, but he is a bigger loss to the organization than cherapanov was. It wasn't a sympathy pick given to the rangers. The devils lose arguably a top ten player in the game and they should at least be given back their first.
If not, losing a star player like this and not being able to rebuild ASAP which is what thy may have to do, may devestate this franchise.
This doesn't make sense the Devils lost the pick because they violated a rule. What happened today doesn't change any of that. This says nothing of passing over giving up the 29th pick which was really one of the dumbest decisions I have ever seen, they have no grounds for an appeal based on today.

Also, enjoy that slippery slope. So the Wings tell Datsyuk to retire in three years, foregoing the final year of his contract which they void to sign in Russia which he is going to do anyway. They then say but we lost a superstar to Russia, we should get the Kovy first pick treatment, see the problem with that?

The reason they were punished was to establish precedence, the reason they won't be rewarded now is also to establish precedence. You cannot like it, but the NHL will look really incompetent if this retirement in anyway impacts how they look at that penalty. It doesn't and it shouldn't, so no dice on that appeal. The punishment was for the first contract not the second one he actually played under and then retired from.

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07-11-2013, 05:30 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
I'm not sure how it would get much friendlier. He was only making 6.666 million on the cap.

Considering the 250k/year penalty a new contract would have to have an AAV of less ~than 6.4 million to actually save any cap room.

And sure, he could sign for less actual dollars so the Devils wouldn't be hit with a large cap recapture penalty later, but that'd be voluntarily giving up guaranteed dollars.

Seems like a stretch to think the team got him to give up million of dollars in guaranteed money just to save maybe 1 million on a cap hit (if he signs a generous deal)
I was thinking for some reason they might try and sign him to a 7 year deal: 31/32 year old Kovy locked up for 7 more years till he's 39 at like 4 mil a year.

Just thinking (tinfoil hat) Lou might be trying to shed years on a new contract-but then it seems, as you say, paying a lot of money just to get a friendlier deal.

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07-11-2013, 05:30 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Seems Jersey wasn't interested in fighting this.
Aside from spite, there's no reason they would.

As far as I can tell from the by-laws, they still own his NHL rights should he choose to come back, so it's not like they're giving up anything to let him go over there.

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07-11-2013, 05:30 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
The retirement paperwork moves him to the league's Voluntarily Retired List. It's how Kovalchuk officially retires from the NHL (as opposed to not retiring and simply not playing like Nabokov or Thomas)

Once a player is on that list he "may not re-enter organized hockey, professional or amateur, as a player for a period of three years...without the written consent of the Member Club."

So basically step 1 is him saying "I don't want to play in the NHL any more" and step 2 is "I want to play in the KHL" In the first case the Devils sign the paperwork as a formality, in the second case it's purely their choice if they sign it or not.
So...without NJ's consent, he could now legally play in the KHL in 3 years instead of waiting out the remaining duration of his contract with NJ.

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07-11-2013, 05:31 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Looks like it's unlikely we'll ever see him in the NHL while he's still in top form again:

http://twitter.com/NortonSports/stat...33854166765568
Hahaha good luck getting that from Lou

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