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Who looks good at Prospects Camp?

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Old
07-11-2013, 06:28 PM
  #1
Octopus
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Who looks good at Prospects Camp?

I was hoping to go to Traverse City this year to see the Red Wings prospects. Its think its as good a prospect pool of any the Wings have had in a long time. Any early standouts worth mentioning? Who looks good...who's not?

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07-11-2013, 09:50 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus View Post
I was hoping to go to Traverse City this year to see the Red Wings prospects. Its think its as good a prospect pool of any the Wings have had in a long time. Any early standouts worth mentioning? Who looks good...who's not?
Here are the opinions from a blogger who is at Traverse City for the Camp (George Malik)

Quote:
In terms of the players I actually saw skating on Wednesday, here are my initial impressions:

#43 Darren Helm: Like I said, there was little power in his stride and his hands were a bit wonky as he hadn't done much other than skate by himself since, say, March. He tried to push himself at times but you could see him holding back, and not being happy knowing that he had to crank it up to 2/3rds Helm Speed and leave the rest on the table against other ultra-competitive (as Babcock would say) people who were out-skating and out-executing #43 because #43 had to play like he was a beer-leaguer.

His fit and finish were a little sloppy from the lack of physical strength and "wind," but you could obviously tell that it was an NHL'er doing the drills, comprehending them immediately and knowing where to be before his teammates were there, so the bag, she was mixed.
Rest found here:
http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments...velopment-camp


Last edited by Bench: 07-12-2013 at 12:46 AM.
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07-11-2013, 09:51 PM
  #3
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His impressions from Day 2

Quote:
Team Yzerman took part in the morning drills, and here's what I thought of their performances as I've seen more of them than Team Lidstrom:

Forwards:

#43 Darren Helm: Helm is, again, not taking part in the battle drills and he's in and out of the skill drills. But he looked like he'd gotten more of his legs under him today, and while he's far from in shape, he was able to both push things a little harder today and to enjoy himself a little more. He hot-dogged his way through the drills he took part in, and he still got from point A to point B, usually with the puck, faster than anyone else. He's a frickin' NHL'er and I sure hope his back holds up, because he is a special player in his unique role.

Long story short: Progress. Two days' worth.
Rest here:
http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments...velopment-camp


Last edited by Bench: 07-12-2013 at 12:47 AM.
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07-11-2013, 10:06 PM
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I appreciate Malik's coverage but man sometimes he's hard to understand.

Really really excited about Janmark. He could be one of our top prospects very soon.

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07-11-2013, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
I appreciate Malik's coverage but man sometimes he's hard to understand.

Really really excited about Janmark. He could be one of our top prospects very soon.
+1,

From above:
Quote:
#82 Mattias Janmark-Nylen: A little pudgy, looks a little tired all the time and seems to swim in the high-collared Reebok practice jersey because he's a stocky fellow. But man, what a steal. Janmark-Nylen skates strongly, he's an excellent passer, really nice shooter and finisher, and he's 20, not 18, and starred in the Swedish Eliteserien (now the SHL) as a late-blooming rookie.

The Wings have a steal and a half here. He's not pretty but he's remarkably, sometimes astonishingly good, giving the hand-skill wows that Athanasiou draws with his feet and legs. He's excelled at the skill drills, he gives no quarter in battle drills, and despite some limited viewing, he displays a professional level of determination, engagement and especially all-round skill as a two-way center who has a ton of potential.

Long story short: He ain't pretty, but he's your Hakan Andersson steal, perhaps of the past three or four years. And he's just getting warmed up.
Sounds very very promising, but it is Malik so we have to take this with a grain of salt.

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07-11-2013, 10:57 PM
  #6
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Don't shoot the messenger. I live in NY, so this stuff is all I have to go off of.

I figure it's better than nothing.

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07-11-2013, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
I appreciate Malik's coverage but man sometimes he's hard to understand.

Really really excited about Janmark. He could be one of our top prospects very soon.
I think it's funny that he tends to have positive things to say about the crappier players and will go on at length about them, but also tends to find negative things to say about the better players and generally says very little about them.

I suppose that's what you notice when you watch players in this setting, but it's not always the most helpful thing. You come away thinking the meh guys are promising and the great guys are overrated.

edit: this one is a good example. If you aren't paying close attention, it sounds a lot like he's saying Ouellet is mediocre. It reads a lot like "Grumble grumble grumble grumble fantastic skill grumble grumble grumble top 3 upside" and so on.

Quote:
#61 Xavier Ouellet: Xavier Ouellet the good: he plays heavy.

Xavier Ouellet the bad: He plays heavy.

Ouellet is not the biggest defenseman at a solid six feet and not the stockiest at a solid 185 pounds. He's not the fastest, either. But he is mobile enough and he is silky smooth at passing, at playmaking, in terms of his shot, shot selection, his ability to block passes and his low center of gravity's aiding in his ability to surprise people with hard hits that knock them off pucks.

But what Xavier does is subtly elegant--the Lidstrom comparisons are apt not in terms of skill, but in terms of the fact that you do not notice that he is there in all the right ways when he is doing well--and sometimes that's hard to see...

And sometimes he does look like someone who dominated major junior hockey, who doesn't seem to understand that he's going to have to play that casual, composed, simple game at a ridiculously higher pace and with much more focus going forward. He was absolutely one of the best defensemen in the Q, he was the captain of a winning team and he can be silly slick sometimes.

But the line between silly slick and a little slow for a defenseman who's never going to have that Danny DeKeyser extra step is slight at times.

Long story short: Top-three potential if he can play so casually and still be so successful looking almost lazy at the pro level. Which is going to take a whole other "level" of commitment and self-improvement.
You can repackage that and say something like this instead:

Quote:
While Ouellet isn't big or fast, he's very, very skilled in ways X, Y, and Z. Plays a very subtle, smooth game He'll need to compete harder and place with more pace in order to succeed at the pro level, but he's got a lot of ability and the potential to be a top 3 defenseman. Needs to add a little speed to reach his potential.
and it loses very little of what Malik was trying to say. But he chooses to get kind of flowery and weird about it.


Last edited by Guru Meditation: 07-11-2013 at 11:18 PM.
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07-11-2013, 11:12 PM
  #8
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Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
I think it's funny that he tends to have positive things to say about the crappier players and will go on at length about them, but also tends to find negative things to say about the better players and generally says very little about them.

I suppose that's what you notice when you watch players in this setting, but it's not always the most helpful thing. You come away thinking the meh guys are promising and the great guys are overrated.
He typically is very over-critical of the "high-end" prospects and then tries to "find" promising things about the lower ranked prospects.

All in all I really don't mind reading his stuff on prospects. Like I said, I can't attend these camps, so to me it's better than nothing.

It's funny to me he always has his favorites. He used to make Brian Lashoff sound like Ray Bourque and Willie Coetzee sound like Wayne Gretzky a couple years back

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07-11-2013, 11:14 PM
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This sounded good to me.

Quote:
#48 Ryan Sproul: It's strange to watch Sproul because so much of his game has been involved in making bombastic hits, issuing hard seeing-eye passes and ripping hard slap shots, and while he can do all of those things, he's starting to get invisible in all of the best ways. Sproul has filled out his 6'3" frame and he's just a heady, heady puck-mover and playmaker whose skating is really good and whose hands are superb. He's kind of bursting at the seams to get into more battle drills because he competes so well there, but he's worked very hard to not work so damn hard to make things happen--or not happen.

Long story short: Top-three potential. Hard shot, hard skater, hard-charger. But after dominating junior hockey, you can kind of see that he knows the next steps are going to be much harder after having taken in the Griffins' Calder Cup run.

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07-11-2013, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
This sounded good to me.
Yeah. He sounded strangely down on Sproul in last night's post.

Quote:
#48 Ryan Sproul: I wasn't overly impressed with Sproul but I think that on the first day, he didn't have to go flat out. Sproul has a big, heavy shot, he's a big, heavy hitter, and like Nedomlel, he's much more efficient in the way that he uses his body. To some extent, the best part of Sproul was that he was big and bombastic and you noticed what he was doing when he was at his best, and he seems to have really polished his game to the point that you don't notice him sometimes--and that's good.
The second part doesn't even make sense.

1. The best part of Sproul's game is when you notice him.
2. Sometimes Sproul plays a game where you don't notice him—and that's good too.

Couldn't he have just said that Sproul has improved? He needs to stick to talking about tangible elements of play. He tries to group them up into some kind of vague, hand-wavy theme that a player has going on, but it just makes things more confusing. Just tell us what the player does well, and then craft a conclusion based on those things.

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07-11-2013, 11:44 PM
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By the way, looks like you can find more prospect blurbs here:

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/201...p-day-2-part-1

She seems to be high on some guys that Malik isn't and vice versa.


Last edited by Guru Meditation: 07-11-2013 at 11:50 PM.
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07-12-2013, 12:03 AM
  #12
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Guys, it's copyright infringement to copy and paste entire articles.


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07-12-2013, 12:45 AM
  #13
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I hope this link works. You can actually watch!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...djgHDS4e4AIDui

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07-12-2013, 12:50 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Guys, it's copyright infringement to copy and paste entire articles.
Please try to keep in mind that folks make a living writing these articles, so be sure to link to their respective websites including only excerpts. Thanks, amigos.

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07-12-2013, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
By the way, looks like you can find more prospect blurbs here:

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/201...p-day-2-part-1

She seems to be high on some guys that Malik isn't and vice versa.
I noticed something:
Quote:
Martin Frk looks a bit bigger than he did last year; it looks like he's put on some muscle. He was pretty un-noticeable yesterday. This morning it looked like he struggled a little during the skating drills. It wasn't noticeable early on, but as the drills became more complicated, his pace slowed down noticeably and I could tell he was concentrating more. Skating isn't his strongest asset and it was even more noticeable while he was on the ice with some of the more foot-skilled players.

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07-12-2013, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolph Lundgren View Post
+1,

From above:


Sounds very very promising, but it is Malik so we have to take this with a grain of salt.
Drives me nuts when Malik acts like a scout:
Quote:
But man, what a steal.
Yeah. Like Malik can tell a guy is a steal based on a prospect camp with a bunch of nobodies

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07-12-2013, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
I think it's funny that he tends to have positive things to say about the crappier players and will go on at length about them, but also tends to find negative things to say about the better players and generally says very little about them.

I suppose that's what you notice when you watch players in this setting, but it's not always the most helpful thing. You come away thinking the meh guys are promising and the great guys are overrated.

edit: this one is a good example. If you aren't paying close attention, it sounds a lot like he's saying Ouellet is mediocre. It reads a lot like "Grumble grumble grumble grumble fantastic skill grumble grumble grumble top 3 upside" and so on.



You can repackage that and say something like this instead:

and it loses very little of what Malik was trying to say. But he chooses to get kind of flowery and weird about it.
Malik ain't writing to put across a concise message.
He's writing because he thinks he a writer. He's trying to paint these portraits of players, making up narratives and tacking them on players.

You know how I like scouting reports...http://www.redwingscentral.com/prosp...alle-jarnkrok/

Or how i used to get them in Bill Mazeroski's baseball back in the day:
Xavier Ouellet plays an efficient game ... nothing flashy ... reads the plays well ... plays like a general on the ice ... could show more intensity... needs to get a step faster ...

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07-12-2013, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Drives me nuts when Malik acts like a scout:


Yeah. Like Malik can tell a guy is a steal based on a prospect camp with a bunch of nobodies
Malik already beat you to the punchline in the article you're referencing.

Quote:
I'm no scout. I just pretend to be one in this blog.

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07-12-2013, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Guys, it's copyright infringement to copy and paste entire articles.
Stupid move by myself

Thank you for pointing that out CB, I appreciate it.

Thanks for editing my post Bench.

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07-12-2013, 06:35 AM
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I don't think we will be able to glean much from this development camp, since they are really just drilling. I think we will need to wait until the prospect camp to evaluate the talent.

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07-12-2013, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
I appreciate Malik's coverage but man sometimes he's hard to understand.

Really really excited about Janmark. He could be one of our top prospects very soon.
Guy is also a dbag on twitter. For like 3 days he was just pissing and moaning about his personal life, flooding my twitter and many others im sure. I posted something of his to pipe it down a notch and the guy threw a hissy fit like a 4 year old.

I mean, if you live in your mommy's basement, i dont need to know about it.. guy. I dont Follow you to get your life updates. needless to say, i unfollowed him and rarely read his non-sense.

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07-12-2013, 07:19 AM
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Anyway, from what i gatheres from all the blog's ive read.

It sounds like Frk needs to work on his skating

Oullet might have more upside and potential then we thought (seems to be improving more and more every year.

The Greek lightning sounds like he might be another helm with good speed and fast hands. Who knows if he can finish?

Marchenko seems like he's very willing and eager to learn. Chelios said he was very engaged and has already been playing against men, so the adjustment wont be as much for him.

T-Tuzzi has a solid front of the net presence and likes to fight at development camp, lol.

The goalies have been "Meh" at best.. not shocking, and i guess the same "meh" could go for the undrafted tryouts it seems.

All in all, Malik is probably the only one i've heard even mention Jarnmark's name. That probably tells you something right there.

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07-12-2013, 07:28 AM
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Too bad those reports about Marek Tvrdon weren't promising. Stuggling in many areas. Of course it's early, but maybe it's better for him start rebuilding his game from ECHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
Oullet might have more upside and potential then we thought (seems to be improving more and more every year.
Ouellet continues to be that next "Norris"-guy, not particurally best in any area, but best defenceman in general. From report to report, same sound.

Quote:
The Greek lightning sounds like he might be another helm with good speed and fast hands. Who knows if he can finish?
If he can finish, he will be the next Datsyuk/Zetterberg everybody is saying we don't have in the system.

Quote:
T-Tuzzi has a solid front of the net presence and likes to fight at development camp, lol.
It was nice to read than he was best tip-in guy at those Homer-scrimmages. He has the willingness to go to the net and good hand-eye coordination. Sounds perfect combination for a future "Homer".

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07-12-2013, 07:41 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
Guy is also a dbag on twitter. For like 3 days he was just pissing and moaning about his personal life, flooding my twitter and many others im sure. I posted something of his to pipe it down a notch and the guy threw a hissy fit like a 4 year old.

I mean, if you live in your mommy's basement, i dont need to know about it.. guy. I dont Follow you to get your life updates. needless to say, i unfollowed him and rarely read his non-sense.
Wow, this seems rather unnecessary.

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07-12-2013, 08:03 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
Anyway, from what i gatheres from all the blog's ive read.

It sounds like Frk needs to work on his skating

Oullet might have more upside and potential then we thought (seems to be improving more and more every year.

The Greek lightning sounds like he might be another helm with good speed and fast hands. Who knows if he can finish?

Marchenko seems like he's very willing and eager to learn. Chelios said he was very engaged and has already been playing against men, so the adjustment wont be as much for him.

T-Tuzzi has a solid front of the net presence and likes to fight at development camp, lol.

The goalies have been "Meh" at best.. not shocking, and i guess the same "meh" could go for the undrafted tryouts it seems.

All in all, Malik is probably the only one i've heard even mention Jarnmark's name. That probably tells you something right there.
The pick was a little high and he's a little undersized but he is something that this team could use and I am kind of excited about that. Sucks hes a ways off from playing for us.

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