HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Notices

Trade and Proposals Thread XXXVII: Is MacT mostly done?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-15-2013, 11:37 PM
  #951
raab
Where's the Hart?
 
raab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,107
vCash: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavyHitter99 View Post
Sign Penner and trade Hemsky + rajala (+ maybe a pick) to Columbus for Nick Foligno. Penner would play RW.

Foligno-Gordon-Penner BOOM
Sign me up, I love the looks of that line.

raab is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 11:38 PM
  #952
nexttothemoon
Eight Straight
 
nexttothemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,780
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
He's not a reliable Top 4 defender by either observation or advanced stats. His Vollman is horrible and when you see him play you can see why. He's a 5-6 guy based off last year's performance.

Umm... have you watched the Oilers dmen play? That's a rhetorical question because we all have.. and none of them are "good" top 4 dmen. They all have flaws in their game. Not enough offense, not good enough defensively... too soft, too slow etc.

Franson is a better all around dman than anything the oilers currently have.

His advanced stats are actually remarkably good... when you look at a larger, long term view... the last 4 years...

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...p&sortdir=DESC

And his individual scoring stats...

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...p&sortdir=DESC


No one comes close to those stats on the Oilers.

Franson's teammate quality and quality of competition is not appreciably worse/better than the rest of his teammates. Those advanced stats based on Corsi and the level of competition are overblown.

Look at the real world results... does his team outscore the competition when he is on the ice at even strength... yes. Does he contribute offensively to a large degree... yes.

nexttothemoon is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 11:41 PM
  #953
Cloned
Sexy Genesis
 
Cloned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 21,719
vCash: 500
He gets decent results playing easy competition. Put him on a top pairing or second pairing with this group of Oilers defenders and it's a disaster waiting to happen, like I said.

__________________

Sig AND X-mas avatar courtesy of The Nemesis

"Pull yourself together!" - Solid Snake to Otacon, multiple times in the series
Cloned is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 11:43 PM
  #954
dnicks17
Moderator
.
 
dnicks17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,556
vCash: 500
Franson was at or near the top of the league in On Ice SH% and Secondary Assists/60.

His EV strength scoring(which contributes to over half of his production) comes as close to a fluke as you can get.

dnicks17 is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 11:48 PM
  #955
HeavyHitter99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,039
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
Sign me up, I love the looks of that line.
Right? I want Foligno on the Oil so bad haha. Even if we have to retain some salary I would still do it. I think the BJs would do it too

HeavyHitter99 is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 11:51 PM
  #956
nexttothemoon
Eight Straight
 
nexttothemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,780
vCash: 50
I guess we all see what you want to see in those advanced stats.

I know I'd love to have more flukey defensemen that get results like Franson.

Unfortunately the Oilers never seem to have much luck in that category.

nexttothemoon is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 11:51 PM
  #957
Burnt Biscuits
Registered User
 
Burnt Biscuits's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,673
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
I'd rather just keep Gagner and sign Gilbert.

Smid - Petry
Ference - Schultz
Schultz - Gilbert

We could call that last d pairing the "Tambellini trade special."
I would be happy with this, Neither of Petry or J. Schultz were consistent last year, I'm sure there was many nights our coaching staff wanted to cut one of the two's ice-time, but when the next player you have is Potter or Whitney that isn't a terribly appealing choice. Much like Chicago leaned on Rozsival to play more minutes on many nights when someone was under-performing, Gilbert could serve a similar role here.

Burnt Biscuits is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 11:51 PM
  #958
Agent Zero
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: EDM
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,507
vCash: 500
We need one of our forwards from the farm to step up during training camp and fill a checking role. I haven't been following the farm team at all. Would Hamilton or Pitlick making the team to play on the 3rd line be asking too much? Both were drafted with hopes of making the big club. And my understanding is they both have size and play a physical game.

Agent Zero is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 11:52 PM
  #959
belair
Registered User
 
belair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,895
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...p&sortdir=DESC

#1 Mark Fraser
#2 ---------------
#3 Matt Lashoff
Quote:
Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post

And his individual scoring stats...

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...p&sortdir=DESC

#1 ---------------
#2 Jeff Finger
I'm all for digging into the Corsi, Fenwick, etc, etc when trying to prove a point. But having his name tossed in with those all-stars doesn't bode well for the argument, IMO.

Watching him for the past couple seasons...Live twice...He's a bottom-end #4 in the NHL. And that's being nice.

belair is offline  
Old
07-15-2013, 11:57 PM
  #960
dnicks17
Moderator
.
 
dnicks17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,556
vCash: 500
Franson and Fraser played the easiest competition and regularly played with the Leafs' top6 when they did.

Look at Franson's GF20 with Kessel, Bozak, Lupul, etc. if you don't think that season was a fluke.

Lupul with Franson had 2.5 times the GF20 of Hall with Justin Schultz.

You can't tell me that isn't a flukey number.

dnicks17 is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:01 AM
  #961
KlimasLoveChild
Registered User
 
KlimasLoveChild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: The Toilet of Canada
Posts: 1,251
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Did anyone else notice that our PRO SCOUTS, the same PRO SCOUTS who helped Tambo make some terrible moves, were the MAIN guys who decided on Jesse Joensuu?

This guy has a roster spot people. He's kind of the reason why we won't sign a Morrow or a Cleary.

Am I just prematurely bashing a guy with 15 points in 67 career games?
I definitely have my doubts about the pro scouts. If some of these recent moves don't come close to panning out I hope MacT overhauls the entire department.

KlimasLoveChild is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:02 AM
  #962
nexttothemoon
Eight Straight
 
nexttothemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,780
vCash: 50
Well that actually isn't anything to do with Fenwick or Corsi (dubious stats imo).

They are simply showing the pts per 60 minutes that a player produces.... and whether his team scores more than getting scored on when a player is on the ice.

Lashoff is a small sample size (700 minutes EV time)... and has no individual offensive abilities... as is shown in those stats (and by watching him).

Finger actually was decent offensively at EV but wasn't good in his own end... also shown in the stats.

Again you can twist and turn stats to say whatever you want them to say.

nexttothemoon is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:03 AM
  #963
Cloned
Sexy Genesis
 
Cloned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 21,719
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
Well that actually isn't anything to do with Fenwick or Corsi (dubious stats imo).

They are simply showing the pts per 60 minutes that a player produces.... and whether his team scores more than getting scored on when a player is on the ice.

Lashoff is a small sample size (700 minutes EV time)... and has no individual offensive abilities... as is shown in those stats (and by watching him).

Finger actually was decent offensively at EV but wasn't good in his own end... also shown in the stats.

Again you can twist and turn stats to say whatever you want them to say.
I guess the question is do you like his stats enough to trade Gagner for him?

Franson isn't worthless - but I don't think trading Gagner for him would be a good move at all.

Cloned is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:05 AM
  #964
raab
Where's the Hart?
 
raab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,107
vCash: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Franson and Fraser played the easiest competition and regularly played with the Leafs' top6 when they did.

Look at Franson's GF20 with Kessel, Bozak, Lupul, etc. if you don't think that season was a fluke.

Lupul with Franson had 2.5 times the GF20 of Hall with Justin Schultz.

You can't tell me that isn't a flukey number.
It couldn't have anything to do with Franson being a better offensive weapon then Schultz right? I watched Franson a lot last year and during the playoffs he's really growing and I have no reason to think he's not gong to be a number 1 d man within 2 years.

raab is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:05 AM
  #965
nexttothemoon
Eight Straight
 
nexttothemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,780
vCash: 50
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...012-13&sit=5v5

Those numbers look solid to me. I wish some Oilers dmen could put numbers like that up... "fluke" or not.

nexttothemoon is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:14 AM
  #966
dnicks17
Moderator
.
 
dnicks17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
It couldn't have anything to do with Franson being a better offensive weapon then Schultz right? I watched Franson a lot last year and during the playoffs he's really growing and I have no reason to think he's not gong to be a number 1 d man within 2 years.
Having 2.5 times Hall's GF/20 isn't a small task.

I don't think you realize how much better Franson would have to be for that to make sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...012-13&sit=5v5

Those numbers look solid to me. I wish some Oilers dmen could put numbers like that up... "fluke" or not.
Depends on what you're looking at.

I'm sure any Oilers defenseman could have numbers like that if they had players scoring at 2+ GF/20 playing with them too.

dnicks17 is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:22 AM
  #967
nexttothemoon
Eight Straight
 
nexttothemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,780
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
I guess the question is do you like his stats enough to trade Gagner for him?

Franson isn't worthless - but I don't think trading Gagner for him would be a good move at all.
Well yes I WOULD trade Gagner for Franson straight up... but I freely admit the Oilers are in a tough spot because they obviously need a #2 C and they have crap depth at that spot... blame that on Tambo AND MacT ******** the bed in acquiring solid talent down the middle.

It's likely a no-go because of the RNH injury and Gordon/Lander being the only "weapons" to fill the void.

We need a big 3-way deal... Franson+Little to the Oilers... Gagner+Kulemin to the Jets... and Wheeler+Petry to the Leafs... or something like that... change it up to balance it out with minor pieces/picks.

nexttothemoon is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:24 AM
  #968
Cloned
Sexy Genesis
 
Cloned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 21,719
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
Well yes I WOULD trade Gagner for Franson straight up... but I freely admit the Oilers are in a tough spot because they obviously need a #2 C and they have crap depth at that spot... blame that on Tambo AND MacT ******** the bed in acquiring solid talent down the middle.

It's likely a no-go because of the RNH injury and Gordon/Lander being the only "weapons" to fill the void.

We need a big 3-way deal... Franson+Little to the Oilers... Gagner+Kulemin to the Jets... and Wheeler+Petry to the Leafs... or something like that... change it up to balance it out with minor pieces/picks.
Gagner + Petry is a much better combination to have than Franson + Little, but that's IMHO.

Cloned is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:30 AM
  #969
BleedingOil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Zero View Post
We need one of our forwards from the farm to step up during training camp and fill a checking role. I haven't been following the farm team at all. Would Hamilton or Pitlick making the team to play on the 3rd line be asking too much? Both were drafted with hopes of making the big club. And my understanding is they both have size and play a physical game.
Not a chance

BleedingOil is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:32 AM
  #970
raab
Where's the Hart?
 
raab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,107
vCash: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavyHitter99 View Post
Right? I want Foligno on the Oil so bad haha. Even if we have to retain some salary I would still do it. I think the BJs would do it too
I've liked Foligno since his Ottawa days be nice to see him on the team.

raab is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:32 AM
  #971
The Nuge
Farewell Smytty
 
The Nuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,615
vCash: 1026
Quote:
Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
Well yes I WOULD trade Gagner for Franson straight up... but I freely admit the Oilers are in a tough spot because they obviously need a #2 C and they have crap depth at that spot... blame that on Tambo AND MacT ******** the bed in acquiring solid talent down the middle.

It's likely a no-go because of the RNH injury and Gordon/Lander being the only "weapons" to fill the void.

We need a big 3-way deal... Franson+Little to the Oilers... Gagner+Kulemin to the Jets... and Wheeler+Petry to the Leafs... or something like that... change it up to balance it out with minor pieces/picks.
Why the **** would we want to do Gags and Petry for Little and Franson?

__________________
"The Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it" - dnicks17
The Nuge is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:39 AM
  #972
raab
Where's the Hart?
 
raab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,107
vCash: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Having 2.5 times Hall's GF/20 isn't a small task.

I don't think you realize how much better Franson would have to be for that to make sense.



Depends on what you're looking at.

I'm sure any Oilers defenseman could have numbers like that if they had players scoring at 2+ GF/20 playing with them too.
Franson has a laser beam from the point so he plays a ton on the PP and gets a ton of rebounds for guys to get easy tap ins on top of his fantastic passing skills. It makes sense that he'd have a higher GF/20.

raab is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:48 AM
  #973
nexttothemoon
Eight Straight
 
nexttothemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,780
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Having 2.5 times Hall's GF/20 isn't a small task.

I don't think you realize how much better Franson would have to be for that to make sense.



Depends on what you're looking at.

I'm sure any Oilers defenseman could have numbers like that if they had players scoring at 2+ GF/20 playing with them too.
Ya like I said... you can twist stats all you want and say they are flukes. We'll see if Franson can continue to play as well this coming season... I think he will.

nexttothemoon is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:50 AM
  #974
nexttothemoon
Eight Straight
 
nexttothemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,780
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Why the **** would we want to do Gags and Petry for Little and Franson?

Well because they are better and would be an upgrade obviously ... but that was a sample trade... you are welcome to put yours up and we can shoot yours down as well.

nexttothemoon is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 01:01 AM
  #975
smackdaddy
Hall-RNH-Eberle
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,689
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Why the **** would we want to do Gags and Petry for Little and Franson?
I have no idea why we'd throw in Petry. I think Gagner for Franson would be a steal for us.

....if we could fill that gaping 2C hole.

smackdaddy is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:21 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.