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The Michael McCarron Thread - Part II : Bigger, Stronger and Meaner

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Old
07-12-2013, 10:42 PM
  #76
Richiebottles
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Originally Posted by GrindNMuck View Post
Just stop. He has nothing like praise's hands. If you've never seen him play, you have no word
Well scouting reports from pretty much everyone everywhere say his hands and skating are fine for his frame. I don't really see the problem with them...

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07-12-2013, 10:44 PM
  #77
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Haha yes I suppose he does
I thought you said he has Zach Parise hands, Sorry

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07-12-2013, 10:45 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by GrindNMuck View Post
Can you send me that article you read? Because his hands aren't that good.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...ew/#more-93201

First one I came to..."He has excellent puck protection skills down low and good hands around the opposition's net"; direct quote...

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07-12-2013, 10:46 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by StellerEller View Post
@grindnmuck

Funny that you say he has poor hands. Many of the comments from coaches have included praise for his hands. Id agree he is a project, but he certainly not as far behind as you say. Time will tell I suppose. Looking forward to McCarron watch!
Not just coaches, but Mark Hunter raved about how well he skates and handles the puck for a kid his size. I like his skill level and think he covers a lot of ground out there, Trevor Timmins has told me his hands are good, and that he skates well.

Is he the next Cam Neely? probably not, but with all due respect to Grind n Muck and his many negative posts...the scouts that matter disagree with him vehemently.

I have a close friend who is a crossover scout with an American team...we talk about prospects all of the time. He had some concerns with McCarron early on (hands not being one of them), but came around by season's end, especially after seeing him multiple times at the U-18's. He was adamant that Mac was a first round pick by draft day. He had no issues with his skill level.

Grind n' Muck...were you at the U-18's? I'm guessing you were not. I notice on your profile it says you want to be a scout - do you not respect the opinions of well regarded NHL scouts? Do you not consider that perhaps you have underrated this prospect, as they think differently than you do? Has it occurred to you that perhaps he improved as the season went on (his stats doubled in the second half), and that his noticeable improvement would raise his draft stock?

It's hard to evaluate a USNTDP prospect based on the "USHL" and college games they play only. Their performances in international tournaments against players their own age are very much considered, and McCarron performed quite well in all of those tournaments in 2013.

I can assure you that it will be difficult for you to become an NHL scout someday if you continue with a hardheaded approach where you consider your scouting abilities to be better than head scouts, OHL GM's that have won championships, and crossover scouts. I've been doing this for several years..and even today..if I have a distinctly different opinion on a player than a senior scout does...I re-evaluate my opinion and watch the player even closer to see if I might be wrong, especially if the player performs in tournaments at the end of the season that I don't see live.

Coming on here and repeatedly saying he has below average skills, doesn't skate well and give his hands 1/5 is not impressing anyone in the scouting world, as it is simply untrue.

I would suggest that you take a more broadminded approach to scouting. It's fine to have an opinion, but it's even finer to be open to changing that opinion.

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07-12-2013, 10:50 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...ew/#more-93201

First one I came to..."He has excellent puck protection skills down low and good hands around the opposition's net"; direct quote...
Do you know what "good hands around the opposition's net" Doesn't mean he can throw a sick deke. It just means he can handle the puck well in front of the net. Something like what Bickell did in the Playoffs a lot, He gets a rebound. Makes a quick left or right move and bangs it home. He doesn't have good hand skill.

But thank you for the Article, ill read it. Appreciate it.

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07-12-2013, 10:54 PM
  #81
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He's too nice to pkay Lucic games

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07-12-2013, 10:57 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Not just coaches, but Mark Hunter raved about how well he skates and handles the puck for a kid his size. I like his skill level and think he covers a lot of ground out there, Trevor Timmins has told me his hands are good, and that he skates well.

Is he the next Cam Neely? probably not, but with all due respect to Grind n Muck and his many negative posts...the scouts that matter disagree with him vehemently.

I have a close friend who is a crossover scout with an American team...we talk about prospects all of the time. He had some concerns with McCarron early on (hands not being one of them), but came around by season's end, especially after seeing him multiple times at the U-18's. He was adamant that Mac was a first round pick by draft day. He had no issues with his skill level.

Grind n' Muck...were you at the U-18's? I'm guessing you were not. I notice on your profile it says you want to be a scout - do you not respect the opinions of well regarded NHL scouts? Do you not consider that perhaps you have underrated this prospect, as they think differently than you do? Has it occurred to you that perhaps he improved as the season went on (his stats doubled in the second half), and that his noticeable improvement would raise his draft stock?

It's hard to evaluate a USNTDP prospect based on the "USHL" and college games they play only. Their performances in international tournaments against players their own age are very much considered, and McCarron performed quite well in all of those tournaments in 2013.

I can assure you that it will be difficult for you to become an NHL scout someday if you continue with a hardheaded approach where you consider your scouting abilities to be better than head scouts, OHL GM's that have won championships, and crossover scouts. I've been doing this for several years..and even today..if I have a distinctly different opinion on a player than a senior scout does...I re-evaluate my opinion and watch the player even closer to see if I might be wrong, especially if the player performs in tournaments at the end of the season that I don't see live.

Coming on here and repeatedly saying he has below average skills, doesn't skate well and give his hands 1/5 is not impressing anyone in the scouting world, as it is simply untrue.

I would suggest that you take a more broadminded approach to scouting. It's fine to have an opinion, but it's even finer to be open to changing that opinion.
Okay, Now you guys are throwing one thing i sort of messed up on. His hands. Big deal why aren't you guys commenting on my statements on his speed, skating ability, losing weight, Etc.? Well because i am right.

-And was i at the u18's? No. But did i attend and watch 30 games of him? Yes. I can care less about the U18's.


-You're obviously not good at what you are doing, because you are throwing one bad thing i said. And throwing it at me and trying to make me look bad. Why cant you say anything else about my other statements? because you know there right.

--Please tell me what statements were wrong besides hands. Please!!!!!! I know for a fact his Skating ability, Speed, Etc. Is not that good.

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07-12-2013, 10:57 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by GrindNMuck View Post
Do you know what "good hands around the opposition's net" Doesn't mean he can throw a sick deke. It just means he can handle the puck well in front of the net. Something like what Bickell did in the Playoffs a lot, He gets a rebound. Makes a quick left or right move and bangs it home. He doesn't have good hand skill.

But thank you for the Article, ill read it. Appreciate it.
I understand what you're getting at, amigo, but being not being able to "throw a sick deke" doesn't mean a player doesn't have good hands...and as for your "Skating Ability" arguement; seriously??...his skating is very good for a big man...you're expectation is a 6'6, 235 lb version of Pavel Datsyuk...not realistic...

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07-12-2013, 10:57 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by GrindNMuck View Post
Do you know what "good hands around the opposition's net" Doesn't mean he can throw a sick deke. It just means he can handle the puck well in front of the net. Something like what Bickell did in the Playoffs a lot, He gets a rebound. Makes a quick left or right move and bangs it home. He doesn't have good hand skill.

But thank you for the Article, ill read it. Appreciate it.
Do you think we drafted a 6'6, 240 lbs kid to dangle guys?

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07-12-2013, 10:58 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
I understand what you're getting at, amigo, but being not being able to "throw a sick deke" doesn't mean a player doesn't have good hands...you're expectation is a 6'6, 235 lb version of Pavel Datsyuk...not realistic...
Are we talking hands (Deking?) or like puck control? because we all might be mixed up now...

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07-12-2013, 10:59 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by samsquanch9 View Post
Do you think we drafted a 6'6, 240 lbs kid to dangle guys?
Did i say that? go read the whole thread. If you've never seen him play. You have no word

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07-12-2013, 10:59 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by GrindNMuck View Post
I thought you said he has Zach Parise hands, Sorry
No worries. But yeah all the descriptions from coaches have specifically mentioned his hands. I think you have a point about losing weight, but thats a given. Keep in mind he probably grew very fast and hes still a teen. He likely needs to simply get coordinated with his big body. Im not worried at all to be honest. The habs will take their time with him and the hunters will grow his game properly. I have little doubt that he will become at least a decent second liner. Even if he doesn't reach his ceiling hell be a solid support player IMO

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07-12-2013, 10:59 PM
  #88
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He's too nice to pkay Lucic games
Lucic is a nice guy too, it's just that he plays hockey like the sport itself killed his puppy when he was 5.

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07-12-2013, 11:02 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by GrindNMuck View Post
Okay, Now you guys are throwing one thing i sort of messed up on. His hands. Big deal why aren't you guys commenting on my statements on his speed, skating ability, losing weight, Etc.? Well because i am right.

-And was i at the u18's? No. But did i attend and watch 30 games of him? Yes. I can care less about the U18's.


-You're obviously not good at what you are doing, because you are throwing one bad thing i said. And throwing it at me and trying to make me look bad. Why cant you say anything else about my other statements? because you know there right.

--Please tell me what statements were wrong besides hands. Please!!!!!! I know for a fact his Skating ability, Speed, Etc. Is not that good.
U18 Tournaments totally matter, he is stacking up against guys like him. That is where his true skill is shown....

You are also wrong about his speed, it looked fine at the development camp and the only thing that needs work is his acceleration, which is understandable for a guy his size. His skating technique is very smooth in fact, for a guy his size I was very surprised. We might have been watching a different McCarron.

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07-12-2013, 11:03 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by la25ecoupe View Post
He's too nice to pkay Lucic games
You're right there. He might have the size, possibly hitting like him but his offensive skills, and fighting is not even close

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07-12-2013, 11:05 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Richiebottles View Post
U18 Tournaments totally matter, he is stacking up against guys like him. That is where his true skill is shown....

You are also wrong about his speed, it looked fine at the development camp and the only thing that needs work is his acceleration, which is understandable for a guy his size. His skating technique is very smooth in fact, for a guy his size I was very surprised. We might have been watching a different McCarron.
Cool Swedish Star, When you're a physical player, Grinder, Enforcer. You can care less about that. For McCarron the only thing that will judge his future his the OHL next season.

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07-12-2013, 11:06 PM
  #92
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Where are all these "he needs to lose weight" comments coming from? At the Habs combine, he was well over 200lbs but had a low body fat percentage. His weight is fine.

As for his overall play, I'll get a better look once the OHL season starts. Wish I could be a scout myself and get to watch some American high school/college hockey.

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07-12-2013, 11:06 PM
  #93
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Nope. You disagree because your a hardcore Canadian fan. Ive watched him a lot. I know what most of his ability's are. His fighting ability is not good, it needs to be worked on. You guy's are overrating his ability's just because he went in the 1st round. If you've watched him a lot you would know.
Good post. I must admit that I'm just a Hard Core Monreal Canadien fan. First thing first, like most Montreal Canadien Fan, once his name was call, I had to youtube his name in order to get a look at him. From little I saw, shot is what came to mind in terms of lacking. He's a big guy who works the board well. Skating seemed fine but no Bure. Seemed to be going to the front of the net. At 6'5 230+pounds, you wonder and try to see what could be. As for the draft position, IMO, after the top 5-6 players in most draft , it all about developement with a few diamiond in the rugh here and there.

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well that's your opinion timmins certainly didn't pick him because he his a canadiens prospect... what i mean is... Timmins is no fool and IS a top scout in the nhl... of course errors can be made.... just like u could be wrong... canadien fan or whatever your favorite team is fan.
Fish...er cough cough!
But you're right, he's a darn good scout. Player like PK,Gallagher, Patch, Price and some more like Latendress. Personaly, I like the Idea of a 6'5 prospect with obvious high potential. The kid is hudge and want to make is style to play a physical one.

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07-12-2013, 11:08 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by GrindNMuck View Post
Cool Swedish Star, When you're a physical player, Grinder, Enforcer. You can care less about that. For McCarron the only thing that will judge his future his the OHL next season.
Why do you have him pegged as a grinder ? It seems that in your mind he is destined to be a grinder and will never become a good top 6 PWF.

And I disagree, it will take him some time to adapt to the OHL and London. Just like Tinordi.... and look where Tinordi is now... he is doing quite well after having a rough start in the OHL his first season.

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07-12-2013, 11:09 PM
  #95
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Did i say that? go read the whole thread. If you've never seen him play. You have no word
I know by reading this thread that you have strong opinions. For all I know, some may even be correct.

What I can't believe is that when a very experienced and highly respected professional hockey scout generously and gently gives you sound advice you seem to be resentful rather than thankful and gracious.

You do know Grant's bona fides, yes?

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07-12-2013, 11:09 PM
  #96
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Where are all these "he needs to lose weight" comments coming from? At the Habs combine, he was well over 200lbs but had a low body fat percentage. His weight is fine.

As for his overall play, I'll get a better look once the OHL season starts. Wish I could be a scout myself and get to watch some American high school/college hockey.
Well over 200 pounds? At the draft it said he was 245 pounds and they take that number that the Combine people weighed him in as.

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07-12-2013, 11:11 PM
  #97
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I know by reading this thread that you have strong opinions. For all I know, some may even be correct.

What I can't believe is that when a very experienced and highly respected professional hockey scout generously and gently gives you sound advice you seem to be resentful rather than thankful and gracious.

You do know Grant's bona fides, yes?
Who? I didn't see a scout say anything.. If i knew that i would of spoke different. Now i feel bad.

Name please?

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07-12-2013, 11:11 PM
  #98
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You're right there. He might have the size, possibly hitting like him but his offensive skills, and fighting is not even close
I agree with the fighting, but at the same stage in his developement, Milan Lucic wasn't as good offensively as McCarron is now; Lucic didn't blossom unitl the year after he was drafted, hence the reason Boston got him late in the second round...I realize you aren't impressed with the McCarron pick and you have every right to your opinion, but it's almost as if the player you're talking about and the one we are really are two different players...perhaps your expectations from a #25 pick are a wee bit too high...

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07-12-2013, 11:14 PM
  #99
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Well over 200 pounds? At the draft it said he was 245 pounds and they take that number that the Combine people weighed him in as.
245 pounds isn't well over 200 pounds?

O... kay then.

What's your angle? Your report on MC has been proven wrong, both by scouting reports from several reliable, ACTUAL scouts INCLUDING Grant, yet you remain thick-headed and continue to argue points that are completely false.

I'm a fan of playing Devil's Advocate from time to time, but if the sky is gray and it's raining, don't tell me it's gorgeous outside.

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07-12-2013, 11:15 PM
  #100
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Who? I didn't see a scout say anything.. If i knew that i would of spoke different. Now i feel bad.

Name please?
A few posts up. Grant McCagg. He gave you a great gift. I suggest you reread it more than once.

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