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Flyers/Wild proposal

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Old
06-15-2005, 07:31 AM
  #1
DaveBrown21
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Flyers/Wild proposal

to Min: Handzus

to Phi: Mitchell and draft pick

Flyers get the physical dman they desparately need...the Wild acquire a solid 2-way center that would compliment their defensive style of play.

thoughts?

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06-15-2005, 07:53 AM
  #2
sveiglar
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At a glance, Minnesota seems to have more solid prospects at centre than they do at D. Certainly a guy like Koivu isn't ready to be an equal to Handzus yet, but that's a pretty steep price to pay for the Wild with little on the way on the blueline. I think Minny would pass.

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06-15-2005, 04:58 PM
  #3
thestonedkoala
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Pass, Mitchell is an underrated, tough defensive-defenseman. Doesn't put up a lot on the score sheet but plays tough.

Given that Minnesota is also integrating at least three new centers in, sometime in the future (O'Sullivan, Koivu, and Wallin) and they already have Walz, Choiunard, and Rolston signed to contracts...kind of makes for a crowded center.

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06-16-2005, 01:14 PM
  #4
MojoJojo
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Chouinard=Bust

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Old
06-16-2005, 01:20 PM
  #5
flyer73
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Sorry but the Flyers won't trade Handzus for Mitchell and a pick unless that's a first round pick. Zeus is a very strong center that can play on any line and never complains. He can play first line thru fourth and he alters his style of play depending on who he's playing with. I can see the Flyers moving Zeus at some point because Carter and Richards look to be the real deal but I am willing to guarantee they get a better d-man then Willy Mitchell.

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06-16-2005, 01:32 PM
  #6
LadyByngJeanRatelle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Chouinard=Bust
Wrong Chouinard.

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Old
06-16-2005, 01:34 PM
  #7
DW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Chouinard=Bust
Marc, not Eric. Eric was dumped right before the lockout began. Marc played pretty well for the Wild in his one season. No that he's going to light people up but he was better then anticipated.

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Old
06-16-2005, 02:18 PM
  #8
NFITO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyer73
Sorry but the Flyers won't trade Handzus for Mitchell and a pick unless that's a first round pick. Zeus is a very strong center that can play on any line and never complains. He can play first line thru fourth and he alters his style of play depending on who he's playing with. I can see the Flyers moving Zeus at some point because Carter and Richards look to be the real deal but I am willing to guarantee they get a better d-man then Willy Mitchell.
Handzus is a nice center, but he's making top 2 line money, and especially under a new CBA, no team is going to pay that kind of cash unless he's playing a top 2 role for them - so saying he can play the 3rd or 4th line is irrelevant.

I doubt that any team gives up the equivalent of Mitchell and a 1st for him too... he's not really an ideal 1st line center, and 2nd line center isn't exactly a spot that a lot of teams are looking for, or would give up a lot of value in a trade for.

When Carter and Richards are ready for that full time role to replace Handzus, I'd bet on him moving out through FA, than through trade... the value he'd get back in a new CBA era for the type of player he is, isn't going to be enough for the Flyers to move him IMO, and it'd make more sense to just play out his contract for them.

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Old
06-16-2005, 02:22 PM
  #9
mercury
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nuckfan, I definitely disagree. If we hold onto Handzus, we have a glut of centers. Why not trade him now while his value is as high as it is? He tied with Jokinen and Demitra in points by centers in 2003-04, and he could get a nice return (don't know about Mitchell and a 1st, but something useful). Plus, he is not making an outrageous amount of many for his production. $2.8 million is not beyond the pale. I don't think this is the deal to be made, but there is one with a team somewhere.

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06-16-2005, 03:43 PM
  #10
thestonedkoala
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Mitchell is making peanuts basically (I think under 1.4 million, can't be certain because he signed a new contract)...adding to his value. He's a solid contributing defenseman that pairs up well. He's tough, he can aggitate and plays with a mean streak.

You don't give up someone like that AND a high first rounder for a guy that might be on his way out because of a glut of centers and is already 28 (we already got a couple of old centers)...

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06-16-2005, 04:20 PM
  #11
NFITO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury
nuckfan, I definitely disagree. If we hold onto Handzus, we have a glut of centers. Why not trade him now while his value is as high as it is? He tied with Jokinen and Demitra in points by centers in 2003-04, and he could get a nice return (don't know about Mitchell and a 1st, but something useful). Plus, he is not making an outrageous amount of many for his production. $2.8 million is not beyond the pale. I don't think this is the deal to be made, but there is one with a team somewhere.
IMO his value is a lot higher on the ice to the team that has him, than what can be exchanged on the market given the circumstances... I think he's the perfect buffer player to have between Carter and Richards, as he's so versatile to play in different roles.

He's a nice player, no doubt... I'd absolutely love to have him pivoting our 3rd line in Vancouver. But realistically, given the payroll situation, you can't really afford to have him play that 3rd line role.. not even the 2nd line role on our team, as we are in tight already with a $1.5mill 2nd line center. It's tough enough to allocate the necessary $$ for your top 5-6 players overall, then to add a $2.8 mill center who is best in a 3rd line role.

He's a good 2nd liner as well, but a lot of teams don't really have a need for this... and even in a 2nd line role, there aren't a lot of teams that can afford to pay their #2 centers that kind of $$, considering the other contracts they have.

He's also a lot more valuable to the contenders than he would be to rebuilding teams... not at all a flashy player that attracts fans, rather he's the type that teams need to get to that next level... so his market value is best based among contenders, most of who all have salary issues to begin with.

At best, most teams IMO would rather just wait until FA is over before committing to anything worthwhile in terms of assets for a $2.8mill center, who's an ideal 3rd line center, and a solid 2nd liner. He isn't in the same class as the guys you mentioned Jokinen or Demitra, because he doesn't bring that level of star attraction, where they can earn some of their paycheck just by the fans they can generate off the ice.

We're now likely looking at a $36mill salary cap league... in a range like that, the market IMO won't be as good for teams that are interested in Handzus at $2.8mill as you think there are.... not until teams look at what FA has to offer as a whole, and where they may put more priority on spending that kind of cap space overall... I can't really think of too many teams that would offer much for Handzus, given his contract, going into a $36mill cap league, and the contracts, re-signings, and free agent options which teams all have.

That's why I don't think his value is nearly as high as it should be overall, given the player he is. I think Philly has the best role for him all around, so moving him doesn't make sense either.

They're building a solid center ice cast with Carter, Primeau, Handzus and Richards... get rid of Roenick's contract and that's a solid group you can work with for the next few years... Primeau and Handzus can take on bigger roles next year, then Carter and Richards would be able to take over. Having two players that help you win, in key roles, that are on their first contracts, makes it easier to handle having 2 guys like Primeau and Handzus on the payroll at the same time... not too many teams though are in that situation.

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06-16-2005, 04:30 PM
  #12
Ice Cream Man
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How about Lydman for Handzus? Calgary could use a nice, big center to provide a one-two punch down the middle with Langkow. Lydman is a nice two-way defenseman who would slide in nicely with Philly's current defense core. Both are relatively the same age.

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Old
06-16-2005, 04:39 PM
  #13
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as a Flyers fan, NO

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Old
06-16-2005, 04:54 PM
  #14
salzy
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Handzus is a perfect Lemaire-type player. Bigger than Holik, but not as dirty and more offensively gifted. Most importantly, one of the best defensive centers in the league. Without knowing what the new CBA looks like, my hunch says the Wild would be all over this one. Sure, Zus isn't the ideal first line center but there aren't enough of those to go around and he would be closer to it than anything they've got now or in the pipeline for the near future.

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Old
06-16-2005, 05:21 PM
  #15
mercury
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How much would it cost to get Mitchell and Dupuis?

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Old
06-16-2005, 11:22 PM
  #16
thestonedkoala
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A hellovalot...to get Dupuis and Mitchell away from Minnesota.

Minnesota WOULDN'T be all over this because:
Mikko Koivu
Rickard Wallin
Patrick O'Sullivan
Brian Rolston

Are all coming in as centers, O'Sullivan might work his way out to wing like Bouchard...

And then given that we have Walz and Choiunard locked up for a couple years? And Mitchell is one of our top 4 blueliners? Top 3? I'd pass. Nice to have but too much to give up for him.

We don't need a top line center, we got Bouchard on wing and Daigle/Dupuis/Gaborik on the other wing (unless Dupuis is LW I can't remember!). We got a playmaker, we just need goalscorers and guys to keep up with him. Wallin could be a solid number 1 center with Gaborik.

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Old
06-17-2005, 01:58 AM
  #17
mercury
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Dupuis usually plays LW, IIRC.

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Old
06-17-2005, 02:21 AM
  #18
thestonedkoala
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Ah okay, I'm getting kind of out of it...

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