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08-02-2013, 04:45 PM
  #176
Fitzy
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As a fan I love the idea of a full stadium, but from an economic perspective that means a mistake was made. Tickets were sold cheaper than they could have been.

But if RBNY drops to 12k a game from 18 or so now with Cosmos and NYCFC, it could be really, really bad. As in RB sells the franchise and it moves esque bad.

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08-02-2013, 04:55 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
As a fan I love the idea of a full stadium, but from an economic perspective that means a mistake was made. Tickets were sold cheaper than they could have been.

But if RBNY drops to 12k a game from 18 or so now with Cosmos and NYCFC, it could be really, really bad. As in RB sells the franchise and it moves esque bad.
I can say with 100% confidence that there will be a team in Harrison for a long time. MLS has wanted 2 teams in "New York" for almost a decade and they finally got it. If it comes at the expense of Red Bull selling then so be it. And for the record even with the somewhat lackluster crowds the team is more than stable financially. They play in the second biggest SSS in the country. A lot of times it looks emptier than it is because of the upper corners are empty which most stadiums don't even have. If you take away those 5,000 seats and the stadium looks as full as most other teams. Then add Henry jersey sales and MSG money keep and they are well afloat.

And I think the team has turned the corner on attendance. The next 2 games will push being a legit sellout as will the t-shirt game in September. Even the Dallas game on a Sunday in NFL season is over 10k tickets sold already. We haven't seen a crowd as bad as the game against Chivas on a Wednesday night on the same night as Devils/Rangers game 5 last night and I doubt we do again. This team is definitely taking the right steps since Heck departed. Roxburgh is putting the team in a great place.

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08-02-2013, 05:00 PM
  #178
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North New Jersey is a big enough area for the team to be able to survive off fan wise as well. There will also be parts of Manhattan where it will be easier to get to RBA than Yankee Stadium or wherever their permanent stadium goes. The team just needs to be smart with haow it approaches it. I don't expect a large dropoff in attendance, if any, in 2015. In fact I expect it to be a good year coming off of a World Cup. The added guaranteed sellout in facing them will help too

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08-02-2013, 05:09 PM
  #179
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It has the potential to be a great rivalry.

I just would like to be as optimistic as you are that RBNY won't turn into a Chivas USA afterthought.

Apparently Dempsey to Seattle is more real than some people are giving it credit for.

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08-02-2013, 05:23 PM
  #180
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It has the potential to be a great rivalry.

I just would like to be as optimistic as you are that RBNY won't turn into a Chivas USA afterthought.

Apparently Dempsey to Seattle is more real than some people are giving it credit for.
Red Bulls ownership cares more and has more resources than Chivas. I don't see it ever getting that bad.

And ew. Love Seattle's kit but hate the team. Also a huge step back for WC preparation

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08-02-2013, 05:28 PM
  #181
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Seattle technically has 3 DPs. I doubt he's playing for under 250K. Something is gonna have to give.

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08-02-2013, 05:40 PM
  #182
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Seattle just re-structured Shalrie Joseph to make him non-DP about 2 days ago.

You could say it was for this reason.

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08-02-2013, 06:30 PM
  #183
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Seattle just re-structured Shalrie Joseph to make him non-DP about 2 days ago.

You could say it was for this reason.
Didn't see that. Oh well. Will probably cave and get a black Dempsey jersey. Shame the Red Bulls go to Seattle this year

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08-02-2013, 06:35 PM
  #184
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Clint's coming home! Great move. Hope it's finalized soon.

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08-02-2013, 07:18 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
As a fan I love the idea of a full stadium, but from an economic perspective that means a mistake was made. Tickets were sold cheaper than they could have been.

But if RBNY drops to 12k a game from 18 or so now with Cosmos and NYCFC, it could be really, really bad. As in RB sells the franchise and it moves esque bad.
Don't see how the Cosmos are much of a threat. They are a minor league team that are going to be based out of Long Island.

It is like calling the Trenton Titans a threat on the Devils attendance.


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08-02-2013, 07:21 PM
  #186
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Clint's coming home! Great move. Hope it's finalized soon.
Long term it is good for MLS, and US Soccer to be able to keep the top US players at home and build string league.

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08-02-2013, 08:15 PM
  #187
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Reported terms of the Dempsey deal...

$9 million to Tottenham for Transfer. 4 years, $32 million contract for Dempsey.

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2...urs-usmnt-usa/

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08-02-2013, 09:16 PM
  #188
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Wonder if Dempsey will go on loan during the MLS offseason to prepare for the WC.

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08-02-2013, 09:32 PM
  #189
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Wonder if Dempsey will go on loan during the MLS offseason to prepare for the WC.
Probably

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08-02-2013, 11:44 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
As a fan I love the idea of a full stadium, but from an economic perspective that means a mistake was made. Tickets were sold cheaper than they could have been.

But if RBNY drops to 12k a game from 18 or so now with Cosmos and NYCFC, it could be really, really bad. As in RB sells the franchise and it moves esque bad.
I hope Red Bull gets scared and sells the team to someone who will rebrand them into something other than an energy drink. A Euro-style, non-geographic name would do wonders for making the club more attractive to Jersey people without alienating the existing NYC fanbase. Empire FC perhaps? If KC hadn't swooped in first, naming the club Sporting would have been a good way to attract more Ironbound fans.

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08-02-2013, 11:50 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by MartysBetterThanYou View Post
I hope Red Bull gets scared and sells the team to someone who will rebrand them into something other than an energy drink. A Euro-style, non-geographic name would do wonders for making the club more attractive to Jersey people without alienating the existing NYC fanbase. Empire FC perhaps? If KC hadn't swooped in first, naming the club Sporting would have been a good way to attract more Ironbound fans.
>Multi billion dollar company
>Scared

Pick one

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08-03-2013, 11:57 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by MartysBetterThanYou View Post
I hope Red Bull gets scared and sells the team to someone who will rebrand them into something other than an energy drink. A Euro-style, non-geographic name would do wonders for making the club more attractive to Jersey people without alienating the existing NYC fanbase. Empire FC perhaps? If KC hadn't swooped in first, naming the club Sporting would have been a good way to attract more Ironbound fans.
You THINK that's what you want, but if you care about the team's chances for on-field success, that is the LAST thing you want to happen. The organization has the benefit of an ownership group that is absolutely loaded financially and is all about being the name brand associated with the best of the best in the sports they're involved in. Ownership doesn't say "no" to things that require writing a check. That's the luxury of this corporate branding. Every season, its not a question of "if" they bring in a DP/international signing. Its when. Change the ownership group, change that certainty. Deal with being an energy drink because it will be best for the on-field product. And that's what fans really care most about anyway.

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08-03-2013, 12:46 PM
  #193
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You THINK that's what you want, but if you care about the team's chances for on-field success, that is the LAST thing you want to happen. The organization has the benefit of an ownership group that is absolutely loaded financially and is all about being the name brand associated with the best of the best in the sports they're involved in. Ownership doesn't say "no" to things that require writing a check. That's the luxury of this corporate branding. Every season, its not a question of "if" they bring in a DP/international signing. Its when. Change the ownership group, change that certainty. Deal with being an energy drink because it will be best for the on-field product. And that's what fans really care most about anyway.
I actually have a pretty big problem with how they don't acknowledge the actual state that they play in.

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08-03-2013, 08:15 PM
  #194
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08-04-2013, 12:31 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by njdevsfn95 View Post
Wonder if Dempsey will go on loan during the MLS offseason to prepare for the WC.
Can you explain this?

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You THINK that's what you want, but if you care about the team's chances for on-field success, that is the LAST thing you want to happen.
I dont get this either. One of the things I hate about MLB, and soccer in general, is that he (or she) with the most $$$$ tends to have an absolutely tremendous advantage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGuy276 View Post
I actually have a pretty big problem with how they don't acknowledge the actual state that they play in.
This X 4,484,488.

If the New York Red Bulls were the NY/NJ Red Bulls like they were supposed to be, I would be ALL-IN as a fan and have spent a lot more $$$$ on this team than I have.

The way it is, I feel like I'm just a peasant that doesnt matter, I just happen to live in this insignificant place that "borders" the REAL place this team plays for. VOMIT.

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08-04-2013, 12:36 AM
  #196
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Can you explain this?



I dont get this either. One of the things I hate about MLB, and soccer in general, is that he (or she) with the most $$$$ tends to have an absolutely tremendous advantage.




This X 4,484,488.

If the New York Red Bulls were the NY/NJ Red Bulls like they were supposed to be, I would be ALL-IN as a fan and have spent a lot more $$$$ on this team than I have.

The way it is, I feel like I'm just a peasant that doesnt matter, I just happen to live in this insignificant place that "borders" the REAL place this team plays for. VOMIT.
During the Winter MLS is off but the European leagues are still playing. Top MLS players get loaned for a couple months such as Henry to Arsenal and Donovan to Everton.

Eh not really. Teams with lower salaries have have survived in MLB. Plus MLS has a salary cap and to add to it Red Bulls are the only inaugural team to not win a domestic trophy

First off it was never NY/NJ under Red Bull ownership and secondly that seems like a silly reason to not spend money on a team, especially from a guy who I believe actually lives in New York.

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08-04-2013, 12:48 AM
  #197
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During the Winter MLS is off but the European leagues are still playing. Top MLS players get loaned for a couple months such as Henry to Arsenal and Donovan to Everton.

Eh not really. Teams with lower salaries have have survived in MLB. Plus MLS has a salary cap and to add to it Red Bulls are the only inaugural team to not win a domestic trophy

First off it was never NY/NJ under Red Bull ownership and secondly that seems like a silly reason to not spend money on a team, especially from a guy who I believe actually lives in New York.
1) Gotcha; thanks.

2) Still doesnt seem fair to me to varying degrees. I like the fact that MLS has a salary cap, but "serious" fans dont seem to care about MLS. But you look at EPL, which is probably the biggest league on the planet, and it just doesnt seem fair to me.

3) I was born/raised in NJ. I recently moved back to NJ from NYC (not that that matters). And it was originally the NY/NJ MetroStars back in the day. Before the European Red Bull ownership decided that "New York" was just Soooooooooo way cool! Better to leave that insignificant and undesirable "New Jersey" bit off the official team name. I'm of a certain age that that REALLY pizzed me off, and I havent forgotten. I dont think I'm that rare of a case in that regard.

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08-04-2013, 01:06 AM
  #198
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I actually have a pretty big problem with how they don't acknowledge the actual state that they play in.
Short answer: marketing.

The longer answer is coming just below...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
I dont get this either. One of the things I hate about MLB, and soccer in general, is that he (or she) with the most $$$$ tends to have an absolutely tremendous advantage.


This X 4,484,488.

If the New York Red Bulls were the NY/NJ Red Bulls like they were supposed to be, I would be ALL-IN as a fan and have spent a lot more $$$$ on this team than I have.

The way it is, I feel like I'm just a peasant that doesnt matter, I just happen to live in this insignificant place that "borders" the REAL place this team plays for. VOMIT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post

2) Still doesnt seem fair to me to varying degrees. I like the fact that MLS has a salary cap, but "serious" fans dont seem to care about MLS. But you look at EPL, which is probably the biggest league on the planet, and it just doesnt seem fair to me.
The finances make it a much more uneven playing field in baseball than in soccer. For the case of MLS, the only place really where money makes a difference is on designated players. It used to be 1 per team (max). The reason its 3 now is for the sake of the league. For this league to be taken more seriously, they need to legitimately have a chance to attract notable worldwide talent, even if it is at the tail end of careers. The DP rule sidesteps the cap to allow you to spend above the "max salary" for up to 3 players. Really only the wealthy teams take advantage and get 3. I assume most, if not all, of the teams have at least 1 DP though. Considering the growth of the league though, this is becoming more leveled off than it could have been. Teams are profitable. With decent ownership groups, they can afford to bring in some guys and it helps the league on the whole. Its a necessary evil to get this league in control of the market share it needs for continued success.

In regards to comparing the EPL, sadly you can't. European system vs. North American system. One is open, the other closed (in its simplest terms, we're talking about barriers to entry). European teams/those in an open system survive on supporters funds (much like booster clubs for high school/college kind of teams), municipal/government funds, etc. They're almost publicly owned in a lot of ways, but not entirely. As we all know, in the closed/North American system, they're all privately owned. Much more in a "for profit" way, even if not all teams are profitable. They're not receiving the public funds. They're run as businesses. They don't carry debts like European teams do. The reason Euro teams spend so absurdly is because of the threat of relegation, which we do not have. They need to be in the top leagues, in the Euro competitions, etc, because that's more money to make (tv/media revenues, prize moneys, whatever), which is always a good thing. Totally different ball game in our system, so even though MLS tries to mimic aspects of the EPL, it can't be too directly compared past some of the on-field/league structure logistics. The EPL is the prime example of where money makes it an absurdly slanted playing field though.

As for the NY/NJ thing, as stated above... marketing. Think the Jets/Giants. They're all in NJ for everything short of training camp. Think of the upcoming super bowl. That's the name that provides the appeal. It's done as a business move. Now, they could better market themselves to NJ, and that is a shortcoming of theirs. But the name and stuff like that is where its blown out of proportion. I think its as simple as hosting more events, viewing parties, player appearances, community work, etc in NJ that is the issue. Not the fact that NY is the only state in their name, or that they aim to associate with that area more so than the region as a whole. In regards to the name... well... honestly, its just a mouthful to say NY/NJ. This ties back to marketing I guess because of the branding implications. But its just too long of a name. Its easier to represent a region under the name NY than it is under the name NJ sadly. The New England Patriots/Revolution represent the region with their name, but they have the benefit of being in an area where multiple states are grouped together by such a blanket term. We don't have that here. We're the New York Metro Area sadly. Again, sadly its the facts of life.

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08-04-2013, 06:24 AM
  #199
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The New Jersey Devils seem to do just fine.

Fix the name.

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08-04-2013, 10:28 AM
  #200
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The New Jersey Devils seem to do just fine.

Fix the name.
Different situation though. They never started out as NY/NJ. They started out as NJ, stayed as NJ. The Red Bulls don't have that luxury. Unless they were going to keep NY/NJ forever, the option was drop one name and well... they went the way that just about any team in that position would go.

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