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Old
08-04-2013, 12:47 PM
  #201
JerseyGuy276
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Originally Posted by DatBoyJPP View Post
First off it was never NY/NJ under Red Bull ownership and secondly that seems like a silly reason to not spend money on a team, especially from a guy who I believe actually lives in New York.
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Originally Posted by Scott04 View Post

As for the NY/NJ thing, as stated above... marketing. Think the Jets/Giants. They're all in NJ for everything short of training camp. Think of the upcoming super bowl. That's the name that provides the appeal. It's done as a business move. Now, they could better market themselves to NJ, and that is a shortcoming of theirs. But the name and stuff like that is where its blown out of proportion. I think its as simple as hosting more events, viewing parties, player appearances, community work, etc in NJ that is the issue. Not the fact that NY is the only state in their name, or that they aim to associate with that area more so than the region as a whole. In regards to the name... well... honestly, its just a mouthful to say NY/NJ. This ties back to marketing I guess because of the branding implications. But its just too long of a name. Its easier to represent a region under the name NY than it is under the name NJ sadly. The New England Patriots/Revolution represent the region with their name, but they have the benefit of being in an area where multiple states are grouped together by such a blanket term. We don't have that here. We're the New York Metro Area sadly. Again, sadly its the facts of life.
I understand that "New York" is a bigger brand. However, the Jets and Giants acknowledge that a significant portion of their fanbases come from New Jersey and they hold events and such IN New Jersey and other such activities. Neither team started off with NJ in the name either, only to drop it at a later date and then switch permanently to New York.

Honestly, in my opinion, it's like this: You are not the Yankee's, you are not the Giants, you're not the Jets, you're not the Mets, you're not the Knicks, you're not the Rags. You're a team in a league that isn't even 20 years old and your marketing is an absolute insult to the phrase 'marketing,' and here they are, ignoring half the fan base. Again, I get the whole New York is a better brand thing, but when you play in a Stadium that's actually a real ***** to get too from New York City, ignoring the more accessible part of your fan base seems like a really stupid idea to me.

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Old
08-04-2013, 01:07 PM
  #202
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The Red Bulls absolutely acknowledge NJ more than the Jets and Giants. The Jets didn't even practice in NJ until a couple years ago...

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08-04-2013, 01:59 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by JerseyGuy276 View Post
I understand that "New York" is a bigger brand. However, the Jets and Giants acknowledge that a significant portion of their fanbases come from New Jersey and they hold events and such IN New Jersey and other such activities. Neither team started off with NJ in the name either, only to drop it at a later date and then switch permanently to New York.

Honestly, in my opinion, it's like this: You are not the Yankee's, you are not the Giants, you're not the Jets, you're not the Mets, you're not the Knicks, you're not the Rags. You're a team in a league that isn't even 20 years old and your marketing is an absolute insult to the phrase 'marketing,' and here they are, ignoring half the fan base. Again, I get the whole New York is a better brand thing, but when you play in a Stadium that's actually a real ***** to get too from New York City, ignoring the more accessible part of your fan base seems like a really stupid idea to me.
Yeah, their marketing isn't THAT bad. You're saying that from an emotional standpoint, not a logical one. They're in a growing league, they're essentially the only team in the region in the sport (for now). Their goal needs to be to set a strong foundation to fully control the region before competitors go into their territory (which is what will be happening in the coming years with NYCFC and if the Cosmos can assemble any real following despite being in a lower league). There is always a territorial base you'll have just by where you're located. They have that locked up in NJ because they play there, they practice there, they're involved in the community there. Their efforts NEED to go to NYC as that's the location that they can expand into. They have the advantage of not yet being book ended by an NYC and a Philly team and feeling the need to push outward as a form of resistance. They're trying to expand their territory, which is what they should be doing. They're very involved in NJ. Its ignorant to say otherwise. Just because its not in their team name doesn't mean its not there.

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Originally Posted by DatBoyJPP View Post
The Red Bulls absolutely acknowledge NJ more than the Jets and Giants. The Jets didn't even practice in NJ until a couple years ago...
And to add to this... the Jets STILL don't host training camp in the huge facility they built in NJ. Mini camp, sure. A few open practices late into camp, yes. But that's it. They give Florham Park the same treatment they do for Hofstra during training camp.

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08-04-2013, 02:06 PM
  #204
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And for those that didn't know, Harrison sued the team for referring to playing in NY. That's why the Red Bulls don't use the phrase "New York is my Home" anymore.

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08-04-2013, 02:20 PM
  #205
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Unless they were going to keep NY/NJ forever, the option was drop one name and well... they went the way that just about any team in that position would go.
And what exactly was wrong with that? They would have kept the obvious fact that it's a regional team intact without pizzing off tons of people.

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You're a team in a league that isn't even 20 years old and your marketing is an absolute insult to the phrase 'marketing,' and here they are, ignoring half the fan base. Again, I get the whole New York is a better brand thing, but when you play in a Stadium that's actually a real ***** to get too from New York City, ignoring the more accessible part of your fan base seems like a really stupid idea to me.
Pretty much agree with this. And I frankly dont see the marketing harm that would/could come from NJ/NY or NY/NJ. The way it is now, I feel like the Red Bulls try to use David Copperfield smoke and mirrors to hide the fact that the team actually plays squarely in the State of New Jersey.

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And for those that didn't know, Harrison sued the team for referring to playing in NY. That's why the Red Bulls don't use the phrase "New York is my Home" anymore.
Good for them, I didn't know that.

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08-04-2013, 02:26 PM
  #206
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Red Bull Arena is as easy to get to as Metlife from New York.

And with everything the Red Bulls have put into Harrison they should be thankful. Since I started last January there is already a noticeable difference in the mile around the stadium. Several restaurants have opened and the PATH got an upgrade as well as ongoing construction

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08-04-2013, 02:36 PM
  #207
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back on topic, yesterday showed why Sam needs to be a huge piece for this team to be a threat in November. His speed can open up lanes for everyone around him

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08-04-2013, 02:47 PM
  #208
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That NY/NJ stuff doesnt bother me at all.

Now what really steams my beans are Americans, born in America, who root for other countries -over- the US come World Cup time because their great great great great grandfather was born in Europe.

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08-04-2013, 03:27 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by DatBoyJPP View Post
Red Bull Arena is as easy to get to as Metlife from New York.
Well that one's certainly false. I agree that it's not a big deal getting to RBA, but it's much easier getting to MetLife Stadium.

Red Bull Arena from NYC

1) Subway from somewhere in NYC to one of only a few PATH spots (Herald Square and WTC)
1b) Possible walk to PATH depending on where you started
2) PATH to Harrison
3) Walk to arena

You could also take NJTRANSIT from NY Penn to Newark Penn, and then take the PATH to Harrison, and then walk a bit, either way, that's not much better.

versus

1) Subway to Port Authority
2) Bus from Port Authority directly to Giants Stadium front gate

or

1) Subway to NYPenn
2) NJTRANSIT from NYPenn to Giants Stadium

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeItVeryMuch View Post
what really steams my beans are Americans, born in America, who root for other countries -over- the US come World Cup time because their great great great great grandfather was born in Europe.
That doesnt compute for me either. I always assumed it's a form of rentalism' (e.g. "I know USA will ultimately fail, but Italy has a great team" and I want to root for the winner).

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08-04-2013, 03:38 PM
  #210
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Have you been to RBA? The Harrison PATH is literally in front of the stadium. 100 yard walk, tops. Hell, Penn Station Newark is only a half mile away. You can walk from there too

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08-04-2013, 03:40 PM
  #211
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I feel like all these misconceptions are from people like BG that don't even go to games

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08-04-2013, 04:23 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by DatBoyJPP View Post
Have you been to RBA? The Harrison PATH is literally in front of the stadium. 100 yard walk, tops. Hell, Penn Station Newark is only a half mile away. You can walk from there too
Have you ever lived in NYC? A walk from Harrison is basically immaterial. A walk from Newark Penn is certainly not. But forget about the "walk" involved from Harrison, what you said is it's as easy to get to RBA from New York City as it is MetLife. Clearly not so. I dont think it's a bad trip, and I dont think it's as big of a deal as JerseyGuy276 does, but to say it's "as easy" is just not true.

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Old
08-04-2013, 04:28 PM
  #213
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Just answer the question. Have you been to the building that you are commenting on is hard to get to.

The Harrison Path is closer to the building than the parking lot at Metlife and 95% of the Prudential Center's lots. It's within walking distance from Newark Penn (and if you don't want to make a 5 minute walk you can take a FREE shuttle) so that makes it just as easy to take NJ Transit. It's actually a shorter walk to RBA than to the Prudential Center and yet I don't hear people complain that the Rock is hard to get to. It's actually easier to RBA than Metlife because you don't need to switch trains at Secaucus. But please keep on lecturing me on **** you don't know. I honestly don't get why you have to troll this thread day in and day out.

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08-04-2013, 05:05 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by DatBoyJPP View Post
back on topic, yesterday showed why Sam needs to be a huge piece for this team to be a threat in November. His speed can open up lanes for everyone around him
He looked like a dominant Dane Richards. Very nice option off the bench. I still hope we get a starting quality right mid to replace Alexander in the starting lineup

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That NY/NJ stuff doesnt bother me at all.

Now what really steams my beans are Americans, born in America, who root for other countries -over- the US come World Cup time because their great great great great grandfather was born in Europe.
Those people are a joke to me. One of my most hated kinds of Eurosnobs (not necessarily just the euros, but in our area it's the Italians that do this the most-around me that is)

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Old
08-04-2013, 08:21 PM
  #215
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I'll follow Germany and support it once the U.S. is eliminated bu that is the extent of my loyalty to my ancestry.

Just like I'll watch European football, but only when it does not conflict with MLS.

As a NY guy I don't care if they change the name to NJ Red Bulls. I made the argument after branding that I do not care about the name, and I'm sticking to that.

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08-04-2013, 09:05 PM
  #216
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I fail students that have only lived in the United States and support another country.

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08-04-2013, 10:11 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
And what exactly was wrong with that? They would have kept the obvious fact that it's a regional team intact without pizzing off tons of people.



Pretty much agree with this. And I frankly dont see the marketing harm that would/could come from NJ/NY or NY/NJ. The way it is now, I feel like the Red Bulls try to use David Copperfield smoke and mirrors to hide the fact that the team actually plays squarely in the State of New Jersey.



Good for them, I didn't know that.
Branding. If you're going to claim the business knowledge you try to tout all over the place, this should be a no-brainer that I don't have to keep explaining. Brand notoriety improves immensely with New York in the title, and is far better with something shorter than "New York New Jersey Red Bulls." It shouldn't require constant re-hashing here. And you still ignore what the team DOES do in the state. Being oblivious to the truth only hurts your attempt at trying to argue a side.

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Originally Posted by DatBoyJPP View Post
Red Bull Arena is as easy to get to as Metlife from New York.

And with everything the Red Bulls have put into Harrison they should be thankful. Since I started last January there is already a noticeable difference in the mile around the stadium. Several restaurants have opened and the PATH got an upgrade as well as ongoing construction

And to add to this, I'm speaking from seeing the area for the last 3 years. Very noticeable change over that span. Much like the change around the Prudential Center over a few years. You really can't compare what it was to what it is now. Especially in regards to the presence the team has in the area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeItVeryMuch View Post
That NY/NJ stuff doesnt bother me at all.

Now what really steams my beans are Americans, born in America, who root for other countries -over- the US come World Cup time because their great great great great grandfather was born in Europe.
This. But to add to it, I also dislike the people that are American born, live in America, and will just senselessly bash MLS and its existence. Its not necessarily as bad as the above, but still. It was like pulling teeth to get my friend, who is a HUGE soccer fan, to watch half of the Red Bulls game yesterday. And he had no idea each team was missing some of its better players. Even at full strength it wouldn't have been easy convincing him to. Sure its not the best talent in the world, but its definitely improving and its still a quality product.

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Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
Well that one's certainly false. I agree that it's not a big deal getting to RBA, but it's much easier getting to MetLife Stadium.
I've gone from Manhattan to a Jets game at MetLife Stadium. I've gone from Manhattan to the Path Station in Harrison (albeit not for a Red Bulls game). The trip to MetLife can be a lot more of a pain than you give it credit for being. Cab or subway to Penn Station, transfer of trains at Secaucus... its a lot more time consuming than you'll ever give it credit for being. The Path is very simple in terms of going point to point. The walk to RBA is a non-factor. And the most recent trip for either of these I've done have been from my friend's apartment in NYC, so the "have you ever lived there" argument really doesn't fly in this case. You've never been to RBA, have you?

And lets not even start to consider the costs and times associated with transportation to either building. Between the crowds/irregularity of the train to/from MetLife and/or the costs associated with driving and parking as opposed to Red Bull Arena. Because then any argument in favor of going to MetLife is non-existent.

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As a NY guy I don't care if they change the name to NJ Red Bulls. I made the argument after branding that I do not care about the name, and I'm sticking to that.
Maybe I'm in the very rare minority with it (apparently). But I really couldn't care less what the team calls themselves. I care about where they play/what they do in the given state, and that's it. The Nets could still be called NJ and I wouldn't care for them because they left the state. The Jets/Giants can call themselves whatever they want and it doesn't phase me because I know where they play/practice. The Devils could change their name to a city instead of the state and it doesn't affect a damn thing for me even if I don't live in that city. Its senseless nitpicking really.

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08-04-2013, 10:53 PM
  #218
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I fail students that have only lived in the United States and support another country.


You should give them a D instead so they cant wiggle free with that BS "F forgiveness" crap. Unless of course you teach at a good school, in which case, they dont allow that nonsense in the first place.


Last edited by Cowbell232: 08-05-2013 at 09:38 AM.
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08-04-2013, 11:00 PM
  #219
DatBoyJPP
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And I don't think everything about the Red Bulls is great. I've voiced displeasure on many things in here. You just don't read anything that doesn't support your ridiculous opinion on things you've never even experienced. Dealing with you is honestly like dealing with a Fox talking head. It's incredulous

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08-05-2013, 12:14 AM
  #220
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I don't need to live inside the actual city to be well versed in its mass transportation

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08-05-2013, 12:54 AM
  #221
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I don't know why I feel the need to comment every time this ridiculous topic comes up on Americans supporting other international squads... but I've heard some real heavy hate (from people on here as well) towards these people and I refuse to be bunched in with them.

I support Italy. I was born and raised in New Jersey. My parents are also born and raised Americans. I have first, second, third, fourth, and fifth cousins that are born and raised Italians and still live there. They have taken turns visiting here every year since I was born (I'll be 26 in 11 days). Since I can remember, they were bringing me Italian soccer shirts and souvenirs for me to have and start a collection.

I defend my right to cheer for the Italian National Team. When they aren't involved, I cheer heavily for the USA because it is the country that I was born and raised in. But let me say this. Soccer is a sport. Just like hockey is a sport, basketball, baseball... whatever. Just because I root for Italy doesn't mean I hate the US or that I'm no patriot. The US national team has been a joke. Lately they are playing better than I can ever remember... but it is such a long way off it's not even funny. But if the USA ever rises and wins the world cup and Italy doesn't even qualify... I'll still root for Italy. Soccer is behind Football, Baseball, Basketball, Hockey, and Nascar in this country. Hell I would bet that celebrity poker tournaments would get better tv ratings than NBCSN broadcasting FC Dallas vs Real Salt Lake.

I won't ramble any longer.... Point is.. I've been called an a-hole... told to go f myself, been told to leave America even.... just because of the national soccer team I support. My family has been basically grooming me for 26 years to support the Italian national team because it is such a huge part of my family and the culture... and if after reading that, you can still shoot off your thick headed insults and childish crap... well then you can sit on it.

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08-05-2013, 01:00 AM
  #222
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My larger beef comes from the Central American people that come to America because their homeland is a dump and actively root against America anyway. A prime example is the El Salvador Gold Cup game where people were throwing food at Donovan. I still don't fully agree with supporting European countries over the United States but it's understandable to me and I won't be the most vocal in calling them out. I do hate Serie A though but that's a whole different story.

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Hell I would bet that celebrity poker tournaments would get better tv ratings than NBCSN broadcasting FC Dallas vs Real Salt Lake.
I'll take that bet.

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08-05-2013, 01:10 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by DatBoyJPP View Post
My larger beef comes from the Central American people that come to America because their homeland is a dump and actively root against America anyway. A prime example is the El Salvador Gold Cup game where people were throwing food at Donovan. I still don't fully agree with supporting European countries over the United States but it's understandable to me and I won't be the most vocal in calling them out. I do hate Serie A though but that's a whole different story.



I'll take that bet.
I am not going to defend everyone that roots for Italy though. There are a TON of people who can't name a relative or ancestor in Italy or pick up the phone a text an Italian cousin or have any kind of clue who Roberto Baggio or Alessandro Del Piero are but go buy an Italy jersey and root for them. Those people should be beaten.

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08-05-2013, 03:37 AM
  #224
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we don't need to go through this again. we have had this argument before and you know where most of the posters in this thread stand when it comes to you supporting Italy.

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08-05-2013, 06:54 AM
  #225
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Why do people care about what national team other people root for.

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