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Old
07-13-2013, 04:43 PM
  #26
JetBlue420
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Originally Posted by Savagestevo View Post
Wow guys, there's no way you're going to get any of the Oilers big 4 for Buff.

Gagner seems like the best you could grab and maybe a pick. You guys obviously think Buff is worth more than I do.
LOL.. or you for some reason are over valuing your young talent.

The way it works really is.. you want something of significant value, you have to give up something of significant or equal or even greater value.

Reality is.. you proposed the deal for buff, we dont need to move him.

If you want him, you will need to give something up for him or equal or greater value.

All you really have is young forwards, buffs cap hit is what? 5.25 million?

Eberle? Hall? Yakupov? Nugent Hopkins, it would have to be a package that includes one of them plus probably a draft pick.

You wouldnt get him for a bag of garbage, fact is.. theres probably a few teams out there who would give us what we wanted for him, it depends on how badly you wanted him. Plus, thing is.. i doubt he'd agree to go to edmonton anyways.

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07-13-2013, 04:59 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by JetBlue420 View Post
LOL.. or you for some reason are over valuing your young talent.

The way it works really is.. you want something of significant value, you have to give up something of significant or equal or even greater value.

Reality is.. you proposed the deal for buff, we dont need to move him.

If you want him, you will need to give something up for him or equal or greater value.

All you really have is young forwards, buffs cap hit is what? 5.25 million?

Eberle? Hall? Yakupov? Nugent Hopkins, it would have to be a package that includes one of them plus probably a draft pick.

You wouldnt get him for a bag of garbage, fact is.. theres probably a few teams out there who would give us what we wanted for him, it depends on how badly you wanted him. Plus, thing is.. i doubt he'd agree to go to edmonton anyways.
I agree we need something valuable, but if Edmonton and Winnipeg were to make a trade around Buff I doubt Nugent-Hopkins would be involved. Edmonton doesn't exactly have the greatest depth down the middle.

But if Edmonton isn't willing to give up one of their young guns they're not getting Byfuglien. We don't even need to move him until Trouba proves he's got what it takes to handle top-4 minutes well on a consistent basis.

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07-13-2013, 06:04 PM
  #28
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This threadl... Idk...


Oilers won't trade Eberle or Yakupov. We don't want Gagner. There won't be a deal IMO and it doesn't make much sense.

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07-14-2013, 12:05 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Savagestevo View Post
Wow guys, there's no way you're going to get any of the Oilers big 4 for Buff.

Gagner seems like the best you could grab and maybe a pick. You guys obviously think Buff is worth more than I do.
Buff is top-3 offensive D in the entire league - behind, of course, Karlsson, and arguably Subban. The Oilers "Big 4" (a term used by no one but homer Oilers fans who cry themselves to sleep assuring themselves that their pathetic reign at the bottom is certain to yield something positive) have achieved no such distinction outside of their draft ranking.

You're welcome for this knowledge.

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07-14-2013, 01:04 AM
  #30
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assuming Trouba is in there, I LOVE our top 4. I think it's magical, and I don't think anyone else in the league can put out 4 dmen to match Enstrom, Buff, Bogo and JT.

The fact that we have essentially 2 top pairings not to mention a bunch of legitimate D prospects (Postma, Redmond, Morrissey, etc.) makes me giggle with glee when I think about it. I'd really hate to see that party broken up. It may be that it's just too much cap space tied up on the blueline though, in which case somebody's got to move. I'd be sad to see Bogo or Enstrom gone too, but losing buff would break my heart the most...

Unless of course we're getting back something AWESOME. Like Tavares awesome. I agree Buff is the most attractive to other teams, but there's a good reason for that. He's a beast! He can do so many things for a team with or without the puck, he eats minutes like they're double-cheeseburgers, he can skate right through full-grown men without twitching and he's got a massive shot which creates juicy rebounds. If that's not enough he jumps up and joins the rush, confusing or just outright overloading defenses.

You want Buff from us, I want an elite center back, so maybe you want to bring tampa, or long island in on a 3 way trade, because I don't know who other than Tavares or Stamkos I'd want back for him. Toews would be just fine as well.

Buff's a game changer, I think we want to get back the same if we give him up.

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07-14-2013, 01:17 AM
  #31
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Wow, I like the posts in this thread. Way better then everyone ******** on him like every other thread that has his name in it.

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07-14-2013, 02:37 AM
  #32
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dustin is the inner-child of the winnipeg jets fan-base..

he has had some rifts with coach noel about his on-ice team-play, and some attention due to his weight gain.. sparking some concern and trade rumors..

He would make a nice mentor for Nurse.. and eventually one of the oilers fab 5 will have to go, but until they can be fully evaluated by the oil brass that wont happen anytime soon.

this trade just cant happen unless its like Hemsky/Klefbom/1st

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07-14-2013, 07:30 AM
  #33
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This combines my two favourite things.

1. Oiler fans asking for your quality players and offering Gagner and/or Hemsky. Then when you tell them that's really not enough to get your star player they tell you your player is essentially ****. Even though they're the ones who want to acquire your player in a trade.

2. People thinking Byfuglien is a bad player. Us Jets fans rag on him because he has so much potential and just can't keep his brain/weight in check to reach it. That potential though? A Norris winner, as the best defenseman in the league. That's why us Jets fans are sometimes upset with him.

Bottom line is he's an absolute game-breaker who can take games over on his own. All teams need to be aware of him on the ice and with his combination of sheer size and skill sometimes teams just flat out can't handle him. I've watched him take the puck skate/deke around 4 guys, watch the fifth bounce off him in his pathetic attempt to body check him and watch Buff go top shelf.

Plus his defensive liabilities are overrated. He's not Mike Green bad, plus he's actually better offensively than Green. Does he always give the best effort to backcheck when he loses the puck on a rush? No. Otherwise he's pretty good, plus with his passing ability he's pretty great. Seriously, if we're hemmed in our zone and a forward is outside our blueline just watch. Buff always finds a way to get it to him.

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07-14-2013, 07:49 AM
  #34
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Sweech: agreed on Buff's outlet passes - they can be jaw-dropping good sometimes. Forceful, accurate, and timely.

I really hope he comes to camp in great shape. How nice would it be to have a potential Norris candidate in the line-up?

Oh, and I truly hope he stops attempting that one last rush at the end of a long shift - that's when he typically doesn't have the energy to recover and backcheck.

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Old
07-14-2013, 08:32 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by JetBlue420 View Post
id make that move if it was guaranteed he wouldnt go to the KHL, thats a real option for these guys.

IF it was for yakupov, id want it to be a sign and trade type deal then where yakupov is signed long term and wouldnt leave a season or 2 later..


Being signed long term is not a guarantee. Just ask Devils fans how they feel on this matter.

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07-14-2013, 09:10 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
This combines my two favourite things.

1. Oiler fans asking for your quality players and offering Gagner and/or Hemsky. Then when you tell them that's really not enough to get your star player they tell you your player is essentially ****. Even though they're the ones who want to acquire your player in a trade.

2. People thinking Byfuglien is a bad player. Us Jets fans rag on him because he has so much potential and just can't keep his brain/weight in check to reach it. That potential though? A Norris winner, as the best defenseman in the league. That's why us Jets fans are sometimes upset with him.

Bottom line is he's an absolute game-breaker who can take games over on his own. All teams need to be aware of him on the ice and with his combination of sheer size and skill sometimes teams just flat out can't handle him. I've watched him take the puck skate/deke around 4 guys, watch the fifth bounce off him in his pathetic attempt to body check him and watch Buff go top shelf.

Plus his defensive liabilities are overrated. He's not Mike Green bad, plus he's actually better offensively than Green. Does he always give the best effort to backcheck when he loses the puck on a rush? No. Otherwise he's pretty good, plus with his passing ability he's pretty great. Seriously, if we're hemmed in our zone and a forward is outside our blueline just watch. Buff always finds a way to get it to him.
That's a pretty accurate assessment on my feelings on Buff. I would add defensively he tends to lose track of opposing forwards around the net, but this is true for a lot our D. My biggest beef with Buff is the negative cultural impact a highly skilled team leader can have on a team, if they don't have an absolute commitment to doing everything possible to win. This starts with an off-season commitment to conditioning, right through to mentoring young players, standing up for teammates to sacrificing stats for the team etc. The day we see that from Buff, this team takes a big step forward. Every off-season I'm hopeful this is the Buff we see come to camp.

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07-14-2013, 10:14 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by heilongjetsfan View Post
assuming Trouba is in there, I LOVE our top 4. I think it's magical, and I don't think anyone else in the league can put out 4 dmen to match Enstrom, Buff, Bogo and JT.

The fact that we have essentially 2 top pairings not to mention a bunch of legitimate D prospects (Postma, Redmond, Morrissey, etc.) makes me giggle with glee when I think about it. I'd really hate to see that party broken up. It may be that it's just too much cap space tied up on the blueline though, in which case somebody's got to move. I'd be sad to see Bogo or Enstrom gone too, but losing buff would break my heart the most...

Unless of course we're getting back something AWESOME. Like Tavares awesome. I agree Buff is the most attractive to other teams, but there's a good reason for that. He's a beast! He can do so many things for a team with or without the puck, he eats minutes like they're double-cheeseburgers, he can skate right through full-grown men without twitching and he's got a massive shot which creates juicy rebounds. If that's not enough he jumps up and joins the rush, confusing or just outright overloading defenses.

You want Buff from us, I want an elite center back, so maybe you want to bring tampa, or long island in on a 3 way trade, because I don't know who other than Tavares or Stamkos I'd want back for him. Toews would be just fine as well.

Buff's a game changer, I think we want to get back the same if we give him up.
I think you're being unreasonable if you want Stamkos, Toews, or Tavares back. All 3 of them are cornerstones of their franchise (less so Toews because of how stacked Chicago, but he's their captain and a key contributor).

Byfuglien isn't the type of piece you build around, he's the piece you add when you're almost there, like the Kings did before their cup run. If we trade Buff we're not getting a franchise player unless we add more.

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07-14-2013, 11:18 AM
  #38
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The truth is, Buff played 1/3-1/2 a year as one of the best in the game. He even carried the team at times. Of course then no one here wanted to trade him, it was unthinkable.

Then the last half of the year he was absolute garbage. Everyone all the sudden talks about moving him for elite talent, ignoring how bad he's been, and still valuing his worth as the best defenseman in the league.

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07-14-2013, 11:53 AM
  #39
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I think people overrrate how 'garbage' he was at the end of the year. Sure he had some bad games, but other than that 5 game stretch where no one played good, he wasn't terrible. Unless your a top 5 player in the league, you're going to go through bad stretchs of games. Happens to everybody.

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07-14-2013, 12:34 PM
  #40
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The truth is, Buff played 1/3-1/2 a year as one of the best in the game. He even carried the team at times. Of course then no one here wanted to trade him, it was unthinkable.

Then the last half of the year he was absolute garbage. Everyone all the sudden talks about moving him for elite talent, ignoring how bad he's been, and still valuing his worth as the best defenseman in the league.
True but seems to be a cottage industry on HFBoards with all fan bases....accentuate the positives of our own while ripping the other teams players....painful painful part of HFBoards.

I can be as rough on Buff as the next guy but over the past 3 seasons I believe he is the 2nd leading scoring D man (PPG average he says without confirming). That is a large enough sample size to say he is one of "THE" elite offensive defensman in the NHL and despite his warts we should not undersell that impressive accomplishment.

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07-14-2013, 10:33 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by EpicGingy View Post
I think you're being unreasonable if you want Stamkos, Toews, or Tavares back. All 3 of them are cornerstones of their franchise (less so Toews because of how stacked Chicago, but he's their captain and a key contributor).

Byfuglien isn't the type of piece you build around, he's the piece you add when you're almost there, like the Kings did before their cup run. If we trade Buff we're not getting a franchise player unless we add more.
I think it would be unreasonable for us to go to those teams and ASK for those players STRAIGHT UP, but I didn't say anything about either of those things. Probably it wouldn't just be buff moving from our roster. Toss in Burmi's NHL rights, some 2nd, 3rd rounders, mid range prospects or depth players, I can live with that.

What I can't live with is Edmonton getting a guy like Buff and playing against him when he's surrounded by all that young talent there, mentoring guys like Nurse and Marincin. And I certainly can't live with getting a return that doesn't make them just as scared of playing against us.

Buff=Tavares? Nobody said that. I just don't want to see buff go unless we are shopping for quality on that scale. If we're not improving, why are we doing it? If we really need to save money we can put Olli Jokinen on an ice floe and let him drift out to sea. As is tradition.

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07-14-2013, 10:43 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by bazaaa View Post
The truth is, Buff played 1/3-1/2 a year as one of the best in the game. He even carried the team at times. Of course then no one here wanted to trade him, it was unthinkable.

Then the last half of the year he was absolute garbage. Everyone all the sudden talks about moving him for elite talent, ignoring how bad he's been, and still valuing his worth as the best defenseman in the league.
He really didn't play bad near the end of the year. He had a bad stretch probably around 1/2 to 3/4 of the way through the season, but finished fairly strong and had some games where he was an absolute force.

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07-14-2013, 11:39 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
1. Oiler fans asking for your quality players and offering Gagner and/or Hemsky. Then when you tell them that's really not enough to get your star player they tell you your player is essentially ****. Even though they're the ones who want to acquire your player in a trade.
I've seen this so many times... You nailed it.

I'd gladly keep Buff if his return would be Gagner or Hemsky.

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07-15-2013, 01:04 AM
  #44
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Jets fans: "Buff is fat, lazy and careless! Get rid of him!"

Oil fan: "I'd like to trade for him".

Jets fans: "It would cost you 5 first round draft picks and three of your future franchise players and even then you would have to add cause buff is awesome!"


After the Oilers 4 kids, the talent and prospect pool falls off a cliff in that organization. There is no trade to be had here.

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07-15-2013, 01:48 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by razorsedge View Post
Jets fans: "Buff is fat, lazy and careless! Get rid of him!"

Oil fan: "I'd like to trade for him".

Jets fans: "It would cost you 5 first round draft picks and three of your future franchise players and even then you would have to add cause buff is awesome!"


After the Oilers 4 kids, the talent and prospect pool falls off a cliff in that organization. There is no trade to be had here.
The kids are growing up now..

Theres 6 in the tween machine btw..
Hall(21/3yrs.)
Eberle(23/3yrs.)
RNH(20/2yrs.)
Yakupov(19/1yr.)
J.Schultz(23/1yr.)
Gagner(23/6yrs.)

Oil have a decent prospect pool
http://oilers.nhl.com/club/roster.htm?type=prospect

MacT said he will openly trade the prospects to win now so take your pick, KBomb and Nurse will cost ya extra

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07-15-2013, 02:02 AM
  #46
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The kids are growing up now..

Theres 6 in the tween machine btw..
Hall(21/3yrs.)
Eberle(23/3yrs.)
RNH(20/2yrs.)
Yakupov(19/1yr.)
J.Schultz(23/1yr.)
Gagner(23/6yrs.)

Oil have a decent prospect pool
http://oilers.nhl.com/club/roster.htm?type=prospect

MacT said he will openly trade the prospects to win now so take your pick, KBomb and Nurse will cost ya extra
Edmonton certainly has a plethora of young talent, but like others have said it's a pretty steep drop after certain positions. That tends to make trades a little tougher to get proper value.

I can see a trade for a RW being a possibility. For Buff we'd really want Yak or Eberle. RW is a pretty glaring weakness in our system. Just traded for Setoguchi but he's not expected to stick around, and overpaid two AHL RW vets to get them to come. We simply need a top 6 RW coming back and one that's under contract for more than a year and preferably young. Other teams would gladly fill our needs for Buff. We could also really use Yaks left handed one-timer on the PP.

If that can't happen (Eberle or Yakupov) we should just move on at this point. We're not looking to donwgrade our roster. That being said if it was Yakupov we'd definitely have to add. On pace for 29 goals in a rookie year is very impressive.


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07-15-2013, 03:01 AM
  #47
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well with all of the arbitration going on.. who knows what could happen.. Bogosian.. Wheels.. Little.. Gagner.. etc..
Jets could run low on cap room..

I know bogo has the most value of the bunch but if you wanted yak, the oilers would want bogo included..

Also not too high on buff after watching him last season.. kinda fell off the map defensively down the stretch and lost his coverage too many times in too many late games last year.. also had too many up the ice rushes on his own ala bobby orr which in turn led to many odd-man rushes going the other way..

the season before that he missed a few too many games for my liking.. point is.. hes a risky player with an offensive flare.. but is past his prime and is on a downward curve in his career... asking for a 19-23 year old #1 overall draft pick/folk hero (potential)superstar is over the top and way too much for him. In a few years the hope is that J.Schultz will be putting up his numbers anyways and also have Klefbomb and Nurse to throw in the mix as well, so there is no need or any desperation..

you could be more realistic get a top6 RW around his own age whos been to the SCF Game7 in hemsky and a 1st most likely something around that with an A Prospect assuming buff could even pass the physical after all of his marguaritas on his boat in Minnny.

Im sure big buff would just love coach eakins too lol .. it wouldnt workout for him in E-Town the jets could probably get better value from going elsewhere, as could the Oilers.

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07-15-2013, 03:08 AM
  #48
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well with all of the arbitration going on.. who knows what could happen.. Bogosian.. Wheels.. Little.. Gagner.. etc..
Jets could run low on cap room..

I know bogo has the most value of the bunch but if you wanted yak, the oilers would want bogo included..

Also not too high on buff after watching him last season.. kinda fell off the map defensively down the stretch and lost his coverage too many times in too many late games last year.. also had too many up the ice rushes on his own ala bobby orr which in turn led to many odd-man rushes going the other way..

the season before that he missed a few too many games for my liking.. point is.. hes a risky player with an offensive flare.. but is past his prime and is on a downward curve in his career... asking for a 19-23 year old #1 overall draft pick/folk hero (potential)superstar is over the top and way too much for him. In a few years the hope is that J.Schultz will be putting up his numbers anyways and also have Klefbomb and Nurse to throw in the mix as well, so there is no need or any desperation..

you could be more realistic get a top6 RW around his own age whos been to the SCF Game7 in hemsky and a 1st most likely something around that with an A Prospect assuming buff could even pass the physical after all of his marguaritas on his boat in Minnny.

Im sure big buff would just love coach eakins too lol .. it wouldnt workout for him in E-Town the jets could probably get better value from going elsewhere, as could the Oilers.
See. This is what I mean.

All worded as if the Jets are asking for Oilers players and getting a "we'll give you Hemsky" in response.

Oilers fan asked for our player. We ain't selling you ****.

I'm also sure with over 19 million in free capspace, we'll find some magical way to fit those three (Wheeler, Bogo, and Little) in.

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07-15-2013, 03:12 AM
  #49
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.5 PPG Hemsky doesn't even come close to .7 PPG Buff. I realize there's a difference between Buff and Yak or Eberle, but the difference is closer than Buff and Hemsky. Heck Hemsky is often injured and has one year left on his deal. We already have a one year RW in Setoguchi. We're not looking for more vet rentals.

It just seems like the most logical fit. Our only other immediate need is a #4 LHD, and I know Edmonton can't spare any good D that's why you're here. We have 2 top 30 LW in Kane and Ladd, Little and Jokinen tie up the middle with Scheifele, O'Dell and Lowry coming up. We have 5 RHD in Buff, Bogo, Trouba, Postma, and Redmond. That's why Buff is available. We're actually quite content with our top 6 for this year, maybe if anything add a 2nd line C, but it would'nt be through a trade. It's the RW position that lacks organizational depth with Wheeler on the 1st line, Seto on the 2nd (good chance he's gone next summer), Frolik on the 3rd, then Thorburn and Peluso bringing up the rear. Thorburn is also probably gone in the summer. After our NHL players there's zero depth, only AHL vets Samson and Gordon. After those two there's nobody that projects to make any sort of impact in the NHL, that's why we'd be after one of those two young RWers.

edit: for a player like Yakupov, I wouldn't see Bogosian as being completely out of the picture.


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07-15-2013, 09:12 AM
  #50
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buff for eberle. no other picks.

that wouldn't happen

lets be realistic

buff for gagner plus 3rd round pick

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