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Your thoughts on the '72 Summit Series "deserters"

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06-16-2005, 10:32 AM
  #26
Snap Wilson
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The '72 series wasn't the highest quality hockey, but it sure as hell was emotional and dramatic, and therefore great theater. There was some poster on here who had done a slew of research on the topic. I'll have to hunt the archives for his initial post.

I don't really care about the "deserters." I think that designation is silly. Given the way the Russians were treating the NHL players, I wouldn't have been surprised if they all said "screw this" and had come home. They didn't and wound up winning the series any way. Good for them.

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06-16-2005, 10:39 AM
  #27
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My thoughts? My thoughts are that it was over 32 and a half years ago, and before I was concieved. My thoughts are people should give it a rest, its been 32 years of chest thumping for Canadians about how they beat the "Evil Empire. Since then, most of us have learned Russians aren't evil. Time to move on...

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06-16-2005, 10:50 AM
  #28
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Game 8

Red Fisher wrote a series of columns last fall on his 50 years of covering the sport and this was his account of game 8: (link)


Quote:
What made this last-minute victory so special? I had been covering major sports events for nearly a couple of decades and involvement is something I avoided then and still do. A team wins ... a team loses. Hockey is only a game, not a cure for cancer. You know the athletes and most of them whine when they're criticized and forget to thank you when they're applauded, but I allowed myself to get involved in all eight games of this Summit Series. I was on my feet with the rest of the Canadians and some of the shrill cries were my own.

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06-16-2005, 11:52 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octopi
My thoughts? My thoughts are that it was over 32 and a half years ago, and before I was concieved. My thoughts are people should give it a rest.
Actually its called: hockey history.

Do you possess such a self-centered disregard and disrespect for all that came before you?

Yep, we should all give it a rest. It's sooooo yesterday. Better to hyperventilate over what color underwear Sidney Crosby is wearing today.

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06-16-2005, 12:03 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg16
The 72 summit series was a very good series and was great for Canadian National Pride, but the players weren't in game shape till game 5 or 6 for Canada and Russia did not have it's best team, especially after Bobby Clarke broke Kharlmanov's ankle. Team Canada was missing Bobby Hull and Bobby Orr and had players on the roster who were only there because they were Alan Eagleson's friends
And of course no players were allowed to come from the WHA. Most notably Bobby Hull. Only NHL players were allowed to participate because the profits from the series were supposed to benefit the NHLPA. Naturally with Eagleson running the whole scene almost no money ever made it into the coffers of the PA so that whole reason was a moot point.

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06-16-2005, 02:34 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClassicHockey
The movie on the 1972 Series will be aired this fall and we'll see how successful they are in recreating the drama and the emotion.

I met the actor playing Ken Dryden and he looks like a good fit. Serge Savard's son plays his dad. The guy playing Phil Esposito apparently looks like him too.

You had to have actually been around and watched the games at the time to appreciate the true passion.
Oh I bet they airbrush over the gooning that caused Kharlamov's broken ankle. I'm sure it'll be made to look accidental!

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06-16-2005, 03:39 PM
  #32
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Kharlamov

I know. But it was such a major event that they will show it or recreate it. There is currently a CBC Series in production called 'Hockey - A People's History'. It will cover that incident in Episode 7 where they examine the '72 series. The producer of that episode is a fan of Russian hockey and will treat that incident fairly. There has also been many new cans of film from the 1972 series discovered and transferred from Russian and Canadian sources. Most are out-takes and a good search was made for isolated footage of Clarke tracking down Khalamov and slashing him. So far, it hasn't been found so they will have to use the TV version.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingmanrob
Oh I bet they airbrush over the gooning that caused Kharlamov's broken ankle. I'm sure it'll be made to look accidental!

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06-16-2005, 03:42 PM
  #33
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Espo

Remember that famous interview of Phil Esposito venting after game 4 in Vancouver?
He said, "You can throw the money for the pension fund out the window, we played because we love our country"

Well, he was sure right about the pension money - either it was thrown out the window or Eagleson & his friends pocketed it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malefic74
And of course no players were allowed to come from the WHA. Most notably Bobby Hull. Only NHL players were allowed to participate because the profits from the series were supposed to benefit the NHLPA. Naturally with Eagleson running the whole scene almost no money ever made it into the coffers of the PA so that whole reason was a moot point.

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06-16-2005, 03:52 PM
  #34
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72 series

Trottier, I certainly agree with you. And it wasn't just hockey history but Canadian history.
All I have to say is that you had to experience watching the series at the time to understand the passion and why it still is remembered even now. Even the schools had all the kids watching game 8 in the gymnasiums. That would never happen now for any sporting event.

A few years ago, I was at the book launch for 'Kings of the Ice' and I was talking to a fellow named Carl Watts. This fellow, originally from Winnipeg, had defected to Russia prior to 1972 and changed his name to a Russian version. Because he spoke English so well and was familiar to hockey, he was selected by the Russians to be the announcer and time keeper at the games in Moscow. So, he was right there in the penalty box in the middle of the action (for example, when Parise wanted to decapitate the referee.) He had great stories to tell, and from a different point of view.

The fellow who

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Actually its called: hockey history.

Do you possess such a self-centered disregard and disrespect for all that came before you?

Yep, we should all give it a rest. It's sooooo yesterday. Better to hyperventilate over what color underwear Sidney Crosby is wearing today.

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06-16-2005, 04:40 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingmanrob
Oh I bet they airbrush over the gooning that caused Kharlamov's broken ankle. I'm sure it'll be made to look accidental!
I really suggest that you watch the series again on DVD because you will see that it isn't just the Canadians that played chippy but the Russians were very dirty players themselves with high sticks, slashes, and other cheap shots in the game. Clarke did was he had to do to win the series for his team, and I can understand why he did it. But it isn't as bad as some people make it out to be, just look Kharlamov played after the game, and I think the ankle was cracked not broken.

It has been overblown and made out to be the reason that Russia lost, and ignoring the fact that it was Canada that won. Same result, different meanings though.

Edit: Classichockey, I don't know who you are, but I just want to say thank you very much for posting here.

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06-16-2005, 04:54 PM
  #36
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[QUOTE=Benton Fraser]I really suggest that you watch the series again on DVD because you will see that it isn't just the Canadians that played chippy but the Russians were very dirty players themselves with high sticks, slashes, and other cheap shots in the game. Clarke did was he had to do to win the series for his team, and I can understand why he did it. But it isn't as bad as some people make it out to be, just look Kharlamov played after the game, and I think the ankle was cracked not broken.



Lets just hope this isn't a Mighty Ducks style movie. You know the kind: where all the Russians are bad, evil and mean and all the Canadian players are really nice guys playing for sick children. If they're going to do it, I hope theres objectivity.

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06-16-2005, 06:38 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClassicHockey
Hadfield was angry that he wasn't playing (after all, he was a 50 goal scorer). It was pride with him and he probably felt that Canada was going to lose.
As I recall, he was also vocal about it to the media which made things worse. The others went more quietly though they got hounded for reaction. I largely agree with your account. Since then, Hadfield has claimed that he had to get back to help his Rangers get ready for the season because they were paying him so much money. I feel that he got a lot of heat and deserved much of what he got as he brought a bunch of it on himself and the team. I never felt the same way about Hadfield after that.

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06-16-2005, 07:58 PM
  #38
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Typical of Harry Sinden though too put the blame on the players who left. Eagleson too, he wasnt any better. If you read the book "1972 Where are they now," you'll read an article from every player. Its either Martin or Hadfield who say "I'm glad that at the reunions the guys dont treat me any differently for what happened." So you see I dont think anyone has any resentment towards them. Back then GMs had a lot more say in a players contract. In 1972 players were still pretty much under the thumb of the GMs.

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06-16-2005, 08:48 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClassicHockey
Trottier, I certainly agree with you. And it wasn't just hockey history but Canadian history.
All I have to say is that you had to experience watching the series at the time to understand the passion and why it still is remembered even now. Even the schools had all the kids watching game 8 in the gymnasiums. That would never happen now for any sporting event.
Truth. For the Moscow games, I can remember quietly sitting in science class at our desks listening to the golden voice of Foster Hewitt over the pa system. This was earlier in the day and if I remember correctly the games were rebroadcast at night.

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06-16-2005, 09:25 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
i tend to agree with you, but when you watch some of the guys recount their experience there, you realize it was a different time. They were given horrible food and accommodations and were apparently certain their rooms were bugged, etc.
Exactly

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06-16-2005, 09:46 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Another interesting bit of trivia is that Dallas Smith, Boston dman, was apparently slated to be named to the team, but asked out because he had responsibilities to take care of on his farm back home.

A fascinating footnote, and so telling of the times: here was an NHLer who had to make end$ meet by taking on a second, full-time (and undoubtedly demanding) summer job. And undoubtedly, his story was not uncommon.

Times change, eh?
read espo's book - he worked every summer in the soo till the $$$ got better - and even when he was doing pretty good he still did cause he didn't think it would last

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06-16-2005, 10:15 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingmanrob
Oh I bet they airbrush over the gooning that caused Kharlamov's broken ankle. I'm sure it'll be made to look accidental!
Would a Russian player kicking a Canadian player count as gooning as well?

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06-16-2005, 10:36 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingmanrob
Oh I bet they airbrush over the gooning that caused Kharlamov's broken ankle. I'm sure it'll be made to look accidental!
Did you see the famous slash ? Did you see the Mikhailov repeated kicks to Gary Bergman ? Maybe your opinions made already ? How about Wayne Cashman's experience in Sweden. Apparently he was speared in the mouth. I didn't see it, and never knew if it was true.

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06-17-2005, 12:18 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
Did you see the famous slash ? Did you see the Mikhailov repeated kicks to Gary Bergman ? Maybe your opinions made already ? How about Wayne Cashman's experience in Sweden. Apparently he was speared in the mouth. I didn't see it, and never knew if it was true.
Cashman's tongue was spilt in two. Esposito said that the Swedes were one of the dirtiest teams he played.

Just to comment on the slash, IMO it's overrated. Kharalmov only missed one game due to it and there was the kicking incident which is much worse.

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06-17-2005, 01:01 AM
  #45
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Thanks, you will see that I sometimes have alternate views but the things I say are usually backed up by research, talking to players etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benton Fraser
I really suggest that you watch the series again on DVD because you will see that it isn't just the Canadians that played chippy but the Russians were very dirty players themselves with high sticks, slashes, and other cheap shots in the game. Clarke did was he had to do to win the series for his team, and I can understand why he did it. But it isn't as bad as some people make it out to be, just look Kharlamov played after the game, and I think the ankle was cracked not broken.

It has been overblown and made out to be the reason that Russia lost, and ignoring the fact that it was Canada that won. Same result, different meanings though.

Edit: Classichockey, I don't know who you are, but I just want to say thank you very much for posting here.

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06-17-2005, 01:07 AM
  #46
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Ulf Sterner, who was the first Swede to play in the NHL in the 60's, was the one who took his stick and parted Cashman's tongue. It must have been intentional. A player once told me "there are very few accidents on the ice".

Kharlamov missed one game but he wasn't very effective in game 8.

After the series ended, the Canadian ambassador Robert Ford reported that the Russians came to him listed all the excuses why they didn't win. All the Russians had to do was get one tie in the last 3 games at home to not lose the series and they couldn't do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksfan
Cashman's tongue was spilt in two. Esposito said that the Swedes were one of the dirtiest teams he played.

Just to comment on the slash, IMO it's overrated. Kharalmov only missed one game due to it and there was the kicking incident which is much worse.

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06-17-2005, 01:12 AM
  #47
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I'm not sure about the production company's knowledge of the series. They are playing around and altering the facts to create better drama. I can't help you much about the script and any objectivity in the movie because I'm not involved in it.


[QUOTE=octopi]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benton Fraser
I really suggest that you watch the series again on DVD because you will see that it isn't just the Canadians that played chippy but the Russians were very dirty players themselves with high sticks, slashes, and other cheap shots in the game. Clarke did was he had to do to win the series for his team, and I can understand why he did it. But it isn't as bad as some people make it out to be, just look Kharlamov played after the game, and I think the ankle was cracked not broken.



Lets just hope this isn't a Mighty Ducks style movie. You know the kind: where all the Russians are bad, evil and mean and all the Canadian players are really nice guys playing for sick children. If they're going to do it, I hope theres objectivity.

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06-17-2005, 01:17 AM
  #48
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The famous slash is captured quite clearly on the film. The Mikhailov kicks were captured from different angles. I'd say the kicking could have been potentially worse. A broken ankle is bad but a kick in the neck could be fatal. I know Mikhailov didn't kick that high but the potential was there.

By the way, the Russians produced a 1/2 hour film that showed all the Canadian hits & dirty play. We watched it and we just dismissed it as a propogada film. The Russians weren't angels either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
Did you see the famous slash ? Did you see the Mikhailov repeated kicks to Gary Bergman ? Maybe your opinions made already ? How about Wayne Cashman's experience in Sweden. Apparently he was speared in the mouth. I didn't see it, and never knew if it was true.

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Old
06-17-2005, 06:48 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClassicHockey
The famous slash is captured quite clearly on the film. The Mikhailov kicks were captured from different angles. I'd say the kicking could have been potentially worse. A broken ankle is bad but a kick in the neck could be fatal. I know Mikhailov didn't kick that high but the potential was there.
I have to say that from the DVD set version of game 7 itīs very hard to see any kicking at all, just some guys trying to punch each other, but canīt get anything significant done. I donīt doubt that Mikhailov committed this "crime" but it hardly looks dramatic... and the way Bergman was swinging his stick and slashing Soviet players, I donīt feel sorry for him at all!

All in all, I think Canada deserved (or "deserved") to win the Series; they were in better condition and playing tactically better in Moscow than in Canada. Team Canada was leading the fifth game by 3-0 and 4-1, but ran out of gas in the latter part of the 3rd period. They were also up 3-1 in the 6th game when the infamous slash occured... I wonder if the decision to take out Kharlamov was made because the referees (Josef Kompalla in particular) were giving them hell (penalty after penalty for Canadian players, strange offside calls etc.), or had it been decided a long before that? Anyway, had they taken out Yakushev instead of Kharlamov, I think that Canada would have won more easily. But Soviets still had so many opportunities to win - or at least tie - the Series, so itīs hard for me to make a claim that Soviets should have won...


Last edited by Marcus-74: 06-17-2005 at 09:13 AM.
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06-17-2005, 08:51 AM
  #50
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Canadians just do not have it for fair play. They can not lose gracefully and with some dignity. Time and time again the crap about the nation of hockey comes up. Enough already. World does not listen to Canada anymore. Take a lesson from Brits and their football mad country. There are many nations ahead in soccer development. As in case with Russia in hockey. Russia in hockey is as Brazil in soccer.
Canada on the other hand, still could not part with fighting. It is laughable to no end. Watch Russia as it develops its league at very fast pace and the days, when the best players will go only to Russia are not that far ahead. Let’s leave Canadians with goon hockey, Tie Domis and Mighty Ducks and their memories about 1972. No one wants to remember WHA-Russia summit. When Russia practically killed Canadians. Why is that?

And back to 1972. What is wrong with you guys????????????? No class, what so ever. That ***** you gesture to the Russian crowd should be in the movie. Canadians left such a bad taste and a pity for their state of hockey in the Russian minds.

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