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Old
07-29-2013, 06:18 PM
  #226
Gliff
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Originally Posted by Autograph View Post
Flames fan in peace here (until the season starts, welcome to the division)

What's going to the most likely situation between Hiller and Fasth?

I'm a big fan of Hiller's but I understand if he can't play the way he used to post-vertigo and all. What are your expectations in terms of splitting time in between the pipes, the kind of numbers either goaltender will post, etc.?
Pretty sure you are coming to our Pacific

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07-29-2013, 06:23 PM
  #227
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Pretty sure you are coming to our Pacific
We'll have to agree to disagree - it's why they call it a division even though we're both in the same one.

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07-29-2013, 07:01 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Autograph View Post
Flames fan in peace here (until the season starts, welcome to the division)

What's going to the most likely situation between Hiller and Fasth?

I'm a big fan of Hiller's but I understand if he can't play the way he used to post-vertigo and all. What are your expectations in terms of splitting time in between the pipes, the kind of numbers either goaltender will post, etc.?
It's Hiller's net to lose but he'll lose it quickly if Fasth plays well out of the gate. With Andersen and Gibson waiting in the wings and this being his last year on his contract I feel like he's on borrowed time. He needs to be brilliant to keep his job in my opinion.

Also I think his little "Vertigo" episode was a sham. Vertigo is a condition that runs in my wife's family and it doesn't just go away. Plus no one ever came out and said what the hell was wrong with him. I think he's a head case and made that crap up.

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07-29-2013, 07:40 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
It's Hiller's net to lose but he'll lose it quickly if Fasth plays well out of the gate. With Andersen and Gibson waiting in the wings and this being his last year on his contract I feel like he's on borrowed time. He needs to be brilliant to keep his job in my opinion.

Also I think his little "Vertigo" episode was a sham. Vertigo is a condition that runs in my wife's family and it doesn't just go away. Plus no one ever came out and said what the hell was wrong with him. I think he's a head case and made that crap up.
You have the weirdest opinions.

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07-29-2013, 07:41 PM
  #230
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What? He was diagnosed with Vertigo, and last year he said he still had little episodes but they were manageable.

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07-29-2013, 07:57 PM
  #231
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I know ppl (or at least person) who had vertigo for extended durations (over a year? Maybe a couple)

Surgery was required. And medication.

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07-29-2013, 08:16 PM
  #232
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I'm going to chime in on the quality of our blueline debate from a page or so earlier. People keep spouting off our defensive stats over a 48 game season where Fasth went on a pretty good tear and I think you can make a case that Souray and Beauchemin were very much playing at a level that will be hard to sustain over an 82 game season.

Here's the other defense groups in our division (depth charts are a rough estimate at this point):

Calgary:
Wideman
Giordano
Brodie
Russell
O'Brien
Butler/whoever

Edmonton:
Petry, Smid + a bunch 3rd pairing guys who mostly suck in their own end (yes that's a shot at Schultz and the Edmonton blueline in general).

Los Angeles:
Doughty
Voynov
Regehr
Greene
Muzzin
Martinez/Ellerby/Schultz

Phoenix:
OEL
Yandle
Michalek
Klesla
Morris
Schlemko/Stone

San Jose:
Boyle
Vlasic
Burns (?)
Stuart
Irwin
Demers
Braun
Hannan

Vancouver:
Hamhuis
Edler
Garrison
Bieksa
Tanev
Weber/Corrado

We're at best middle of the pack in the division. Edmonton and Calgary are clearly the bottom teams. IMO LA, Phoenix and Vancouver are definitely ahead of us and unless Boyle regresses and Burns plays full time at forward I think SJ has a better looking group than us also.

While the game is certainly not played on paper, it is even less so played based on stats from the prior year (a 48 game year at that). Our D is going to rely on Beauchemin to not regress, Souray to stay healthy, Fowler to take a step forward and one of Sbisa/Vatanen/Lovejoy to step up and become a capable 2nd pairing guy. Outside of Edm/Cal there are far less question marks in the other groups. There is a reason to be slightly concerned about our blueline.

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07-29-2013, 08:25 PM
  #233
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I can't wait to revisit this thread at the end of the year. All these people complaining about our defense are going to eat crow.

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07-29-2013, 08:34 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by PuqTalk View Post
I can't wait to revisit this thread at the end of the year. All these people complaining about our defense are going to eat crow.
Is it really so difficult to admit that there are valid reasons for concern?

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07-29-2013, 08:45 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by PuqTalk View Post
I can't wait to revisit this thread at the end of the year. All these people complaining about our defense are going to eat crow.
So you're saying our blue line has no real question marks and compares well against the non Alberta teams in our division?

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07-29-2013, 09:10 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by PuqTalk View Post
I can't wait to revisit this thread at the end of the year. All these people complaining about our defense are going to eat crow.
Oh for ****s sake, I honestly can't tell if you're just trolling with posts like these. Look at all the question marks. If you think everything is going to work out perfectly on our blue line, your just a polynanna. I guarantee you Souray and Beauchemin regress. Lovejoy too. Sbisa and Fowler will be better hopefully but is Sbisa ready to be a 2nd pairing guy? I have my doubts. It also looks like we will be missing a key, underrated veteran in Lydman next year

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07-29-2013, 09:14 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
Oh for ****s sake, I honestly can't tell if you're just trolling with posts like these. Look at all the question marks. If you think everything is going to work out perfectly on our blue line, your just a polynanna. I guarantee you Souray and Beauchemin regress. Lovejoy too. Sbisa and Fowler will be better hopefully but is Sbisa ready to be a 2nd pairing guy? I have my doubts. It also looks like we will be missing a key, underrated veteran in Lydman next year
No support to prove lovejoy will regress. We can also agree that Allen can't play much worse than he did last year. Beauchemin may regress but will still be a top pairing guy on this team.

I am fairly confident our goaltending/offence will make up for however weak we think this d might be.

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Old
07-29-2013, 09:20 PM
  #238
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Lovejoy has never played at the level he showed in the last 25 or so games last year. His entire career vs 25 games is plenty of support in expecting regression.

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Old
07-29-2013, 09:27 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Damn Skippy View Post
You have the weirdest opinions.
Same with the people formatting opinions how youth movement is stupid.

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07-29-2013, 09:40 PM
  #240
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Lovejoy has never played at the level he showed in the last 25 or so games last year. His entire career vs 25 games is plenty of support in expecting regression.
No! [8th best defense] plus [goals in equal goals out] plus [regression isn't automatic and therefore doesn't exist] equals cup contender. Stop being a hater.

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07-29-2013, 09:42 PM
  #241
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Same with the people formatting opinions how youth movement is stupid.
You don't like how it's formatted? Maybe I should put it in a picture book.

And while a youth movement isn't necessarily stupid, the youth movement advocates on this board certainly are.

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07-29-2013, 09:43 PM
  #242
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Same with the people formatting opinions how youth movement is stupid.
Have you not seen Edmonton play?

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07-29-2013, 09:55 PM
  #243
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I am definitely not on the youth movement bandwagon. But, I just have to point one thing out to everyone that says look at Edmonton to the people that are on the youth movement bandwagon.

Edmonton's STARS are the youth movement. Our stars are in their primes and our youth is the depth. Some are poised to have breakout seasons and others are still progressing and finding a role in the NHL.

That's not even mentioning how much better our goaltending and D is than Edmonton. So please, stop with your "look at Edmonton" arguments and rethink your opinion.

This is not directed at you DVM.

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07-29-2013, 10:06 PM
  #244
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I would love to look back and eat crow.

But to not admit that we have a fair amount of question marks on D is insane.

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07-29-2013, 10:15 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
So you're saying our blue line has no real question marks and compares well against the non Alberta teams in our division?
Yes. The only 'question mark' is the ability to stay healthy. If they do, we're perfectly fine. Just like we were last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
Oh for ****s sake, I honestly can't tell if you're just trolling with posts like these. Look at all the question marks. If you think everything is going to work out perfectly on our blue line, your just a polynanna. I guarantee you Souray and Beauchemin regress. Lovejoy too. Sbisa and Fowler will be better hopefully but is Sbisa ready to be a 2nd pairing guy? I have my doubts. It also looks like we will be missing a key, underrated veteran in Lydman next year
48 games is not a fluke. I don't see any reason for Beauchemin to regress, especially if you pair him with Fowler or Sbisa so that he's not stuck racing back into the zone after a bad pinch by a slow Souray every other shift. Souray was a solid second pairing defenseman last year, everyone seems to believe that he had a huge role but he didn't.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...20&sortdir=ASC

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...Name=timeOnIce

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...Name=timeOnIce

Take a look at these stats. No surprise that Souray had played very sheltered minutes most of the year and saw very favorable matchups while on ES. His special teams abilities led to tons of minutes. It's not my fault Boudreau wanted to keep them together in the playoffs, a decision which unfortunately took him 6 games too long to turn back on. He started the year great and progressively came back down to form. There's no reason to expect he's managed any differently and can't produce the same way.

Fowler is poised to breakout with a bigger role on this team. If you people are so ready to guarantee that people will regress than I'm allowed to do the opposite for Fowler. Definitely looked good in the playoffs, his instinct is there offensively and his game has grown defensively, it's only a matter of time before Boudreau decides to unite Fowler and Beauch.

Lovejoy played fantastic for us and it's ridiculous to think that he's suddenly going to turn into a questionable defenseman. He's going to be a rock on the third pairing just like he was last year. Don't even mention Pittsburgh, they have one of the worst defensive systems in the league.

Sbisa is well... Sbisa. He's the wild card that can either take our defense to another level if he pulls his head out of his ass, or he'll lose his spot on this team and Vatanen and/or Lindholm will likely be there waiting.

Christ, everyone's ready to experience our entire team 'Cheechoo' apparently.

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07-29-2013, 10:15 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by 2faded View Post
I am definitely not on the youth movement bandwagon. But, I just have to point one thing out to everyone that says look at Edmonton to the people that are on the youth movement bandwagon.

Edmonton's STARS are the youth movement. Our stars are in their primes and our youth is the depth. Some are poised to have breakout seasons and others are still progressing and finding a role in the NHL.

That's not even mentioning how much better our goaltending and D is than Edmonton. So please, stop with your "look at Edmonton" arguments and rethink your opinion.

This is not directed at you DVM.
No worries. My point with Edmonton is that their young stars are #1 draft picks, and they aren't all that special yet. RNH is getting repeatedly injured because he's not physically mature yet. None of them are putting up monster points. Just watching them, they are learning bad habits and learning how to lose. Prospects should be kept in the minors until they are physically AND mentally capable of consistently performing at the NHL level IMO. The fact that #1 overalls can't hack it means that our mid to late round picks shouldn't be rushed.

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07-29-2013, 10:17 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Static View Post
Lovejoy has never played at the level he showed in the last 25 or so games last year. His entire career vs 25 games is plenty of support in expecting regression.
It's true, but I'm not expecting too much, and wouldn't be surprised if he gets better either. I don't think Bylsma knows how to properly use defensemen not named Letang, and I don't think Lovejoy had a chance in Pittsburgh. I'm guessing his mobility was mistaken for being an offensive type, but that just wasn't the case. I don't think it's a coincidence he flourished with Fowler, Lovejoy just isn't a puck handling guy.

In this system, he might just be a really nice fit. But we'll see how TC goes, at worst he's still a pretty damn good #7 defenseman.

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Old
07-29-2013, 10:18 PM
  #248
KEEROLE Vatanen
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Originally Posted by PuqTalk View Post
I can't wait to revisit this thread at the end of the year. All these people complaining about our defense are going to eat crow.
Unlikely. Beauchemin off major knee surgery, Souray and Allen both a year older, and have no idea what Sbisa will give us.

Imagine if Souray plays like he did the last 3rd of the year, next season?

Hopefully Vatanen is given a fair shot if veterans play poorly

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07-29-2013, 10:37 PM
  #249
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No worries. My point with Edmonton is that their young stars are #1 draft picks, and they aren't all that special yet. RNH is getting repeatedly injured because he's not physically mature yet. None of them are putting up monster points. Just watching them, they are learning bad habits and learning how to lose. Prospects should be kept in the minors until they are physically AND mentally capable of consistently performing at the NHL level IMO. The fact that #1 overalls can't hack it means that our mid to late round picks shouldn't be rushed.
Hall was the best LW in hockey this past season IMO, and is showing an excellent compete level. RNH was rushed along, I do agree with that.

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07-29-2013, 10:43 PM
  #250
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No worries. My point with Edmonton is that their young stars are #1 draft picks, and they aren't all that special yet. RNH is getting repeatedly injured because he's not physically mature yet. None of them are putting up monster points. Just watching them, they are learning bad habits and learning how to lose. Prospects should be kept in the minors until they are physically AND mentally capable of consistently performing at the NHL level IMO. The fact that #1 overalls can't hack it means that our mid to late round picks shouldn't be rushed.
I've always been on board with this sentiment. But the mentality on HF has every prospect more highly valued than proven NHL talent. It's tiresome listening to some of the irrational comparisons and expectations spewed.

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