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Roster/Trade/Etc Discussion Part X : Better Than 90% of Roster/Trade/Etc Threads

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Old
07-16-2013, 02:19 AM
  #51
Paul4587
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Agreed on the goalie front. Look no further than Tim Thomas. A few more examples - Hiller wasn't an NHL starter until 27, same with Niemi, Backstrom was 28, Smith was 29, Anderson was 28 & the list goes on. Also, as Exit Dose said earlier, Quick was in the ECHL at the same age Bobkov was last season.

Bobkov is worth virtually nothing on the trade market, may as well keep him until he's unjustifiably taking up a contract spot.

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07-16-2013, 03:16 AM
  #52
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Bobkov is young, and has shown he can play at the AHL level. He also has good size. Trading him for a 6th round pick would be retarded. Bobkov has a better chance of being an NHL backup than the average 6th round pick does of even playing a full NHL season. Also, if/when Hiller gets traded/walks via FA...we're going to need Bobkov.

NHL:
Fasth
Andersen

AHL:
Gibson
Bobkov

We really don't need to get rid of Bobkov. I'd like to get rid of expensive/mediocre Jonas Hiller but that's just me.

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07-16-2013, 03:29 AM
  #53
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But we could get a late round pick!
Hey, Datsyuk and Zetterberg were drafted with late picks, imagine what we could draft with a late pick of our own!!!

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07-16-2013, 10:21 AM
  #54
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Man I love how this has turned into such a contentious issue which totally proves my point.

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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
We even have a need for goalies in the ECHL. Shocking, I know. You see, in the minor leagues, players sometimes get injured. When that happens, they call up players from the next league down. It's crazy sounding, and I did some checking, turns out we're not the only team that does this. Sometimes teams even loan their players to other AHL teams.
First I'd like to thank you for being so sarcastic and condescending. It would have been a real shame if you were mature and civil with your rebuttal. Anyway, barring the unlikely event that all four goalies in front of Bobkov get injured we'll never be in desperate need for him to play. Okay so if we trade him and there is at least one injury or trade we need a backup in Norfolk. There are dozens of free agent goalies that can fill that spot. Dozens. It wouldn't be hard at all to replace him.

My favorite bit in this whole thing is the insistence some have that he has no value but at the same time are comparing him to Tim Thomas, Jonathan Quick and Craig Anderson.

He's never going to play for us. Never. Frederick Andersen is only a year older than him and a lot better and John Gibson is only twenty. He'll never, ever hop over them on the depth chart. But that's getting way ahead. Look at this year. He's destined for the ECHL or the CHL since we don't have an affiliate at the moment. He's Russian and will have a choice next summer to either fight it out with the dozens and dozens of goalies in the minor leagues of North America riding buses to every game or he can go home to the KHL and make real money. I don't think there's a chance in hell he's under contract with us next year.

So many goalies come and go. Yes some surprise and are late bloomers, but never for the team that drafted them. Players don't stick around when they are so buried in the depth chart. It's no big deal. I think it's a waste holding onto a prospect that has no future with us.

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07-16-2013, 10:33 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
Bobkov is young, and has shown he can play at the AHL level. He also has good size. Trading him for a 6th round pick would be retarded. Bobkov has a better chance of being an NHL backup than the average 6th round pick does of even playing a full NHL season. Also, if/when Hiller gets traded/walks via FA...we're going to need Bobkov.

NHL:
Fasth
Andersen

AHL:
Gibson
Bobkov

We really don't need to get rid of Bobkov. I'd like to get rid of expensive/mediocre Jonas Hiller but that's just me.
Have you seen the last few contracts handed out to goalies? Hiller isn't expensive.

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07-16-2013, 10:56 AM
  #56
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you know its the dead of the summer when bobkov is the topic of conversation.

PS: Jagr is coming to anaheim. fair warning

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07-16-2013, 11:28 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
First I'd like to thank you for being so sarcastic and condescending.
You're welcome.

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Anyway, barring the unlikely event that all four goalies in front of Bobkov get injured we'll never be in desperate need for him to play. Okay so if we trade him and there is at least one injury or trade we need a backup in Norfolk. There are dozens of free agent goalies that can fill that spot. Dozens. It wouldn't be hard at all to replace him.
You seem to keep saying that you understand what people are saying, and then you double back to the same faulty premise. Bobkov doesn't have to play in Anaheim to serve the needs of our organization. Playing at the lower levels helps us out, too. If he turns into something in that time, great. If he doesn't, he probably gets released as a free agent. You know, like what happens with our organization nearly every summer. His being on an ELC doesn't confer any special status compared to the contract that we gave out to any number of other players we have in the minors. Him playing for one of our affiliates, or maybe even being loaned out for a short spell to another team's affiliate is what he is giving us for that contract. There doesn't have to be an NHL player or draft pick in return for every contract. Most of the contracts that we give out won't be used that way.

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My favorite bit in this whole thing is the insistence some have that he has no value but at the same time are comparing him to Tim Thomas, Jonathan Quick and Craig Anderson.
You clearly missed the point. They aren't saying that he's worth a lot. They are saying that sometimes players need time to mature, and it's not in an organization's best interest to ship players off because that development isn't happening at the most convenient time frame.

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He's never going to play for us. Never.

So many goalies come and go. Yes some surprise and are late bloomers, but never for the team that drafted them. Players don't stick around when they are so buried in the depth chart. It's no big deal. I think it's a waste holding onto a prospect that has no future with us.
He didn't ask for these powers. To know one's fate before it happens.

First off, Jonathan Quick is playing for the team that drafted him.

Second off, what Andersen did last year wasn't the norm for a rookie goalie. Good goalies don't usually walk in and put up a season like that. Many of them had first years just like Bobkov. What he did last year wasn't bad, it just wasn't near what Andersen did.

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Old
07-16-2013, 11:34 AM
  #58
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PS: Jagr is coming to anaheim. fair warning
That would be awesome.

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07-16-2013, 12:07 PM
  #59
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Ugh, please no. Give us Jagr instead.
Ducks can't afford Jagr. I doubt he'd sign for that contract. Probably closer to 4-5 mil.

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Old
07-16-2013, 12:22 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by muckbin15 View Post
you know its the dead of the summer when bobkov is the topic of conversation.

PS: Jagr is coming to anaheim. fair warning
Just once because he signs with an eastern conference team, or twice because he signs with someone out here?

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Old
07-16-2013, 12:46 PM
  #61
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Penner Getzlaf Perry
Silfverberg Bonino Palms
Cogs Koivu Etem
Winnik Holland Beleskey

Noesen
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Old
07-16-2013, 12:49 PM
  #62
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So that's probably Palmieri, Silfverberg, Penner and Beleskey rotating that LW position on the top line throughout the season.

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07-16-2013, 12:52 PM
  #63
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We have so many forwards that could conceivably play its insane.

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07-16-2013, 12:53 PM
  #64
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We have so many forwards that could conceivably play its insane.
How long has it been since we had depth like this?

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07-16-2013, 12:55 PM
  #65
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07-16-2013, 12:56 PM
  #66
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Great depth on the wings for sure. I just don't see where Selanne fits if they do sign Pancakes.

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Old
07-16-2013, 12:58 PM
  #67
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I think that warrants it's own thread, guys.

(EDIT: "That" were the replies to the Penner thing that used to be here... )


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Old
07-16-2013, 01:07 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
You seem to keep saying that you understand what people are saying, and then you double back to the same faulty premise. Bobkov doesn't have to play in Anaheim to serve the needs of our organization. Playing at the lower levels helps us out, too. If he turns into something in that time, great. If he doesn't, he probably gets released as a free agent. You know, like what happens with our organization nearly every summer. His being on an ELC doesn't confer any special status compared to the contract that we gave out to any number of other players we have in the minors. Him playing for one of our affiliates, or maybe even being loaned out for a short spell to another team's affiliate is what he is giving us for that contract. There doesn't have to be an NHL player or draft pick in return for every contract. Most of the contracts that we give out won't be used that way.


You clearly missed the point. They aren't saying that he's worth a lot. They are saying that sometimes players need time to mature, and it's not in an organization's best interest to ship players off because that development isn't happening at the most convenient time frame.
It's in an organization's best interest to get the most out of an asset. If it's likely that a player will walk after his contract is up, which you alluded to, then you have to look to move him for an asset that might turn into a player one day. If he doesn't fetch anything then sure, let him toil in the minors for the rest of the year and perhaps be needed to backup in Norfolk at some point. But that's the extent of his usefulness to this team. This is our fifth string goalie we're talking about after all.


Quote:
He didn't ask for these powers. To know one's fate before it happens.

First off, Jonathan Quick is playing for the team that drafted him.

Second off, what Andersen did last year wasn't the norm for a rookie goalie. Good goalies don't usually walk in and put up a season like that. Many of them had first years just like Bobkov. What he did last year wasn't bad, it just wasn't near what Andersen did.
Four years is more than enough time to know where a prospect stands in regards to their future with the team. If he was on the cusp then you give him more time but he keeps dropping down in the order. Quick was in LA's crease two years after he was drafted and the starter the year after that. He showed them right away he was a talented goalie as that was his first year of pro hockey. He's not a comparable at all. Andersen was a proven talent overseas and his season wasn't surprising at the least. Bobkov was viewed as a project and it looks like a failed project but that's okay. He was 45 out of 47 qualified AHL goalies in goals against and 39 in save percentage. He won't be missed. I'm sure this is the most any of us have ever talked about him.

But this isn't really about him. It's about the collective's notion that we have to hold onto these players for dear life until no one else wants them and they become a wasted asset. There is plenty of value in trading good prospects and we should trade him while someone still views him as such. No one does probably which makes this whole argument moot. But assuming someone does he'll be more useful to this organization fetching another asset rather than being the starter for some ECHL team. Someone like Mat Clark needs a similar evaluation as well.

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07-16-2013, 01:20 PM
  #69
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It's in an organization's best interest to get the most out of an asset. If it's likely that a player will walk after his contract is up, which you alluded to, then you have to look to move him for an asset that might turn into a player one day. If he doesn't fetch anything then sure, let him toil in the minors for the rest of the year and perhaps be needed to backup in Norfolk at some point. But that's the extent of his usefulness to this team. This is our fifth string goalie we're talking about after all.
Our fifth string goalie? You're getting ahead of yourself in more ways than one. Bobkov can still be a player for us down the road. As I said earlier, you're counting your ducklings before they've hatched. Our depth chart isn't set in stone.

We just let a goalie that we drafted walk a few weeks ago. You know like every team in this league does on a regular basis.


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Four years is more than enough time to know where a prospect stands in regards to their future with the team. If he was on the cusp then you give him more time but he keeps dropping down in the order. Quick was in LA's crease two years after he was drafted and the starter the year after that. He showed them right away he was a talented goalie as that was his first year of pro hockey. He's not a comparable at all. Andersen was a proven talent overseas and his season wasn't surprising at the least. Bobkov was viewed as a project and it looks like a failed project but that's okay. He was 45 out of 47 qualified AHL goalies in goals against and 39 in save percentage. He won't be missed. I'm sure this is the most any of us have ever talked about him.
This paragraph. Where the hell to even start?

He's a failed project after one year? Do you even know what the term 'project' means.

I like how you just toss out that Quick was playing for the Kings two years after he was drafted. He was in Amherst two years after his draft.

Quote:
But this isn't really about him. It's about the collective's notion that we have to hold onto these players for dear life until no one else wants them and they become a wasted asset. There is plenty of value in trading good prospects and we should trade him while someone still views him as such. No one does probably which makes this whole argument moot. But assuming someone does he'll be more useful to this organization fetching another asset rather than being the starter for some ECHL team. Someone like Mat Clark needs a similar evaluation as well.
Well, this one is just a false dichotomy along with a complete falsehood.

We don't have to keep Bobkov, but we don't have a burning need to trade him either. We don't have a need for another asset. We aren't starving for anything at the lower levels, nor do we need a mid to late draft pick either. We are going to need a goalie to step into Norfolk as early as this year. Oh look, we have one of those.

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07-16-2013, 01:48 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post

Our fifth string goalie? You're getting ahead of yourself in more ways than one. Bobkov can still be a player for us down the road. As I said earlier, you're counting your ducklings before they've hatched. Our depth chart isn't set in stone.
Exit makes a very good point here. I'm not saying this will happen, but in two years the Ducks could have all of Anderson, Gibson, Bobkov in the system. Goalie depth, **** depth at any position, isn't a bad thing.

You also have to take into account the risk/reward of the asset you are talking about. If you traded Bobkov what could you get for him? a 4th round pick? 5th? You are probably better off holding onto the player you have and giving him time to play and develop properly. One pro season shouldn't define any players career.

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07-16-2013, 02:36 PM
  #71
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Agreed on the goalie front. Look no further than Tim Thomas. A few more examples - Hiller wasn't an NHL starter until 27, same with Niemi, Backstrom was 28, Smith was 29, Anderson was 28 & the list goes on. Also, as Exit Dose said earlier, Quick was in the ECHL at the same age Bobkov was last season.

Bobkov is worth virtually nothing on the trade market, may as well keep him until he's unjustifiably taking up a contract spot.
Good point. The only reason I think we could deal him is because he was a more talked about goalie prospect because of his size. If that means he has value, good. If not, there really isn't a point of getting rid of him unless he demands a trade.

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07-16-2013, 02:37 PM
  #72
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Our fifth string goalie? You're getting ahead of yourself in more ways than one. Bobkov can still be a player for us down the road. As I said earlier, you're counting your ducklings before they've hatched. Our depth chart isn't set in stone.
Hiller isn't getting traded any time soon so yes, fifth string. Or are you suggesting that either our prized prospect, someone whom is in the conversation to play in the Olympics or the goalie that was second in the AHL in save percentage and sixth in goals against will play in the ECHL in favor of Babkov? It's pretty effing clear where he stands on the totem pole.

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We just let a goalie that we drafted walk a few weeks ago. You know like every team in this league does on a regular basis.
Thank you for proving my point. Cousineau was a wasted asset. But he was a lesser prospect so I never had any delusion that he could fetch any kind of return. I think Bobkov can but he probably won't so he'll most likely go the same route this time next year.


Quote:
This paragraph. Where the hell to even start?

He's a failed project after one year? Do you even know what the term 'project' means.

I like how you just toss out that Quick was playing for the Kings two years after he was drafted. He was in Amherst two years after his draft.
Excuse me, two and a HALF years. He was drafted in 2005 and played in the 2007-2008 season. Quick is an exceptional goaltender and he doesn't compare to Bobkov at all.

But that's beside the point. It's been four years since he was drafted. He's played in parts of three years in the AHL. He had to play an overage season in the OHL because we had better goalies in the system.


Quote:
Well, this one is just a false dichotomy along with a complete falsehood.

We don't have to keep Bobkov, but we don't have a burning need to trade him either. We don't have a need for another asset. We aren't starving for anything at the lower levels, nor do we need a mid to late draft pick either. We are going to need a goalie to step into Norfolk as early as this year. Oh look, we have one of those.
Andersen and Gibson will both be in Norfolk and there's a good chance Hiller plays out his contract. If not, is it too crazy to assume we'll get a goalie prospect in return for the goalie we'd be trading away? It doesn't matter if we let him walk or not. It matters if there's an opportunity to recycle an asset for him because it's very likely, which you pointed out, that he won't be here next season.

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07-16-2013, 02:37 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by muckbin15 View Post
you know its the dead of the summer when bobkov is the topic of conversation.

PS: Jagr is coming to anaheim. fair warning
what's in Anaheim that he wants to visit? Disneyland?

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07-16-2013, 02:40 PM
  #74
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Exit makes a very good point here. I'm not saying this will happen, but in two years the Ducks could have all of Anderson, Gibson, Bobkov in the system. Goalie depth, **** depth at any position, isn't a bad thing.

You also have to take into account the risk/reward of the asset you are talking about. If you traded Bobkov what could you get for him? a 4th round pick? 5th? You are probably better off holding onto the player you have and giving him time to play and develop properly. One pro season shouldn't define any players career.
No depth isn't a bad thing, it's a great thing and we have great depth right now. It's also not hard to replace someone like Bobkov.

Holding onto him isn't an option. If he's stuck in the ECHL or CHL this year there's not a chance in hell he'd re-sign here. Why would he? There's no future for him here with Fasth, Andersen and Gibson all in front of him for at least two years.

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07-16-2013, 02:42 PM
  #75
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Thank you for proving my point. Cousineau was a wasted asset. But he was a lesser prospect so I never had any delusion that he could fetch any kind of return. I think Bobkov can but he probably won't so he'll most likely go the same route this time next year.
The only way Cousineau was wasted was the waste of a pick on him. He doesn't have any upside. He was not an asset to our team. Bob could wait until we get rid of one of our NHLers and then split time in the AHL with Anderson/Gibson (whoever isn't called up). I could see us signing him to a one year deal to give him one more shot after this year. Between Bob and Cousineau, Cous was an obvious release candidate. Bobkov won't be in the same spot next year unless he is even worse this year than last year.

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