HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

Kyle Clifford to Edmonton

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-15-2013, 12:07 PM
  #51
Captain Mittens*
Catquistador
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Meow-ntain
Posts: 33,429
vCash: 69
There is no way the Kings trade the Big Red Dog within the division

Captain Mittens* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 12:16 PM
  #52
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
KingCanadain1976's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
Anyway... bringing it back to reality. I'd do a 2nd + a prospect not named Klefbom, Nurse, Marincin.

I recognize LA would rather keep Clifford, so the above offer is only made in a context where my fall back is an offer sheet that I'd already discussed with his agent.

There are numbers in the 2nd-pick comp range that I'm sure would cause LA heartburn.

I simply need to trade the above unnamed prospect to StL to get my 2nd back. It's not that complicated and it certainly puts a tidy cap on what I'd be willing to offer LA.
Again i doubt kyle signs a offer sheet. Dean has stated publically that Kyle was close to signing. Kyle is a team guy and recognizes hes in a great spot on a contending team. I really don't see him signing in Edmonton a rebuilding team. He is loved by mangement fans and teamates. La s team chemistry is worth more then a small increase in pay. He knows his pay day is coming down the road.

KingCanadain1976 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 01:16 PM
  #53
bucks_oil
Registered User
 
bucks_oil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,213
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
Show me where i said it was fair value in order for a divisional opponet to get red dog they would have to over pay. Should we be in postion to trade him. It would take a overpayment to get him from all our divisional oppenets. Van compared him to zack Kassian and tryed to trade for him before getting zack. Again to me Kyle is more then a 3rd lw He already bounces up to play 1st 2nd spot duty. He s one of the few phyical bottom players for la. Hes loved by fans and management alike. We arrent looking to trade him. As for Nolan he is playing rw and according to some king fans he hasnt tap his potential of offense so hes still young and may even make a decent 3rd rw He also plays center and lw. He would make a good 13th forward at worse. Also a stand up for everyone team mate. Also why not start a negotion high and then setttle for less. Its a standard negotion tatic.
Well first, we aren't negotiating. We are speculating on what it would *realistically* take to get him considering all factors.

Your points about him being "loved" etc are valid to a degree, but only insofar as whether mgmt would be willing to sacrifice other players/contracts if it came to that. And if you say that's the case, fair enough, it is worthwhile feedback.

But I can't help feeling that with your "red dog" comments, the fact you previously said it would take 2x2nds, then turned around to ask for Nurse + 2nd (implying Nurse, #7 overall is worth a 2nd?!?)....

Well it just gives me the impression that you are arguing based on emotion and not fact. So while you are entitled to your opinion, it sorta makes the debate less interesting.

bucks_oil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 01:17 PM
  #54
Raccoon Jesus
Moderator
\_(ツ)_/
 
Raccoon Jesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I.E.
Country: United States
Posts: 27,140
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
Dwight King for 3rd rounder
I think in the fans' eyes, King is more movable than Clifford...but good luck prying King from Sutter's cold, dead hands. King is his safety blanket and the apple of his eye.

I don't see the Kings moving Clifford in the division for anything short of an overpayment but I also don't see a move the Oilers could make that would also make the Kings better without some foreign objects being thrown around here. But my goodness, Clifford would be glorious on the Oilers, too!

Edit: someone asked earlier about team need, really at this point it would just be a 2nd line LW and picks, something I don't think EDM would be willing to give up. Unless we could unite Smid and Voynov for the foreseeable future

Raccoon Jesus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 01:18 PM
  #55
sgupca
Registered User
 
sgupca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Halifax, NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,785
vCash: 500
I love Clifford

i'd pay EDM 1st to get him

sgupca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 01:29 PM
  #56
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
KingCanadain1976's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
Well first, we aren't negotiating. We are speculating on what it would *realistically* take to get him considering all factors.

Your points about him being "loved" etc are valid to a degree, but only insofar as whether mgmt would be willing to sacrifice other players/contracts if it came to that. And if you say that's the case, fair enough, it is worthwhile feedback.

But I can't help feeling that with your "red dog" comments, the fact you previously said it would take 2x2nds, then turned around to ask for Nurse + 2nd (implying Nurse, #7 overall is worth a 2nd?!?)....

Well it just gives me the impression that you are arguing based on emotion and not fact. So while you are entitled to your opinion, it sorta makes the debate less interesting.
Dean has stated that the lockout hurts the developement of players like clifford He also said has potential that he hasnt tap yet. To me this is high praise on a player. He is highly regaurded in our organization. Yes I maybe emotional when it comes to re dog hes one of my favourites on the kings. If you look at some of the other comments on him at least im willing to talk about tradeing him most other will give you a flat out no. My 2 2nds value to tradeing him is closer value then you may think but as i said it would take a over payment to get him. The nurse + 2nd for nolan and clifford was made at 2 30 am and maybe a bit much but it was a offer that could have been countered. Even a few olier fans stated it would take overpayment. The oridgnal propsal asked what it would take and to me this is what it would take. I honestly don't see clifford being traded to a divsional oppent without it being a over payment. King Nolan Martinez would be traded before clifford.

KingCanadain1976 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 01:34 PM
  #57
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
Magician
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 60,494
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
I love Clifford

i'd pay EDM 1st to get him
Edmonton 1st for Clifford and LA's 2nd?

__________________
Bryanbryoil is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 01:38 PM
  #58
sgupca
Registered User
 
sgupca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Halifax, NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,785
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Edmonton 1st for Clifford and LA's 2nd?
probably LAs 3rd with a condition on the 1st (top 5 or 10 protected)?

sgupca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 01:39 PM
  #59
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
KingCanadain1976's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Edmonton 1st for Clifford and LA's 2nd?
La doesn't have there 2nd in 14 or 15 they went to buffalo for regher

KingCanadain1976 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 01:39 PM
  #60
The Head Crusher
Retired
 
The Head Crusher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,739
vCash: 50
Send a message via MSN to The Head Crusher
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontgoZiggy View Post
DL would match. Then next year he'd start targeting Oilers RFA's. Clifford would also have to sign it and want to leave a contender for a rebuilder.
While that is a possibility and there are some valuable targets out there (RNH, J Shultz, Petry) there are two problems with that idea.

1. LA doesn't have its 2nd round pick so that limits the options available for what LA can sign a player to.
2. LA won't have the room to sign these players to a contract that without losing some of its key members like Brown or Greene.

__________________
The Head Crusher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 01:44 PM
  #61
Vic Vinegar
Registered User
 
Vic Vinegar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
La doesn't have there 2nd in 14 or 15 they went to buffalo for regher
We do have a Toronto 2nd rounder from the Bernier trade.

Vic Vinegar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 01:46 PM
  #62
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
KingCanadain1976's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Head Crusher View Post
While that is a possibility and there are some valuable targets out there (RNH, J Shultz, Petry) there are two problems with that idea.

1. LA doesn't have its 2nd round pick so that limits the options available for what LA can sign a player to.
2. LA won't have the room to sign these players to a contract that without losing some of its key members like Brown or Greene.
Well it would depend on how much the cap went up. La can always move stoll for picks and would open another 3 ish million an could replace from within. Also we have alot of defenseman coming which makes are need for Greene less. Brown has ineciate hes going to be signed at a reasonable rate perhaps before the season starts. If Dean wants to offer sheet someone he ll find a way to do it so it will hurt trust me hes a smart gm.

KingCanadain1976 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 01:48 PM
  #63
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
KingCanadain1976's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Vinegar View Post
We do have a Toronto 2nd rounder from the Bernier trade.
yes we do just dont know for sure what year. I don't think we should offer that till we know what draft year it will be in.

KingCanadain1976 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 02:11 PM
  #64
Face Wash
Registered User
 
Face Wash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,603
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dingo View Post
Print out this post and bring it with you for a 10% discount!
Awesome... Savings For ALL!!!!

Face Wash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 02:16 PM
  #65
Face Wash
Registered User
 
Face Wash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,603
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
Hes still young (20)
Actually he's 22. Obviously still very young though.

Face Wash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 02:18 PM
  #66
tempest2i
The Gloaming
 
tempest2i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cowtown
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
Well it would depend on how much the cap went up. La can always move stoll for picks and would open another 3 ish million an could replace from within. Also we have alot of defenseman coming which makes are need for Greene less. Brown has ineciate hes going to be signed at a reasonable rate perhaps before the season starts. If Dean wants to offer sheet someone he ll find a way to do it so it will hurt trust me hes a smart gm.
Trading players to free up enough cap space to offer sheet any player sounds like a really bad idea.

Also: Brown is going to get paid, it's going to be shocking. He took a discount last time, I doubt he takes another.

tempest2i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 02:19 PM
  #67
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
KingCanadain1976's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
Actually he's 22. Obviously still very young though.
I sit corrected ( i would say i stand corrected but im sitting )

KingCanadain1976 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 02:21 PM
  #68
Djp
Registered User
 
Djp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Seattle,WA
Country: United States
Posts: 10,130
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
La doesn't have there 2nd in 14 or 15 they went to buffalo for regher
they got one of those 2nd round picks back from toronto in the Bernier deal (all i know it would be in either 14 or 15---dont know the deciding criteria)

Djp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 02:21 PM
  #69
OilerFan4Life
Registered User
 
OilerFan4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Heartland of Hockey
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,792
vCash: 1991
Lombo owes Homer and Lowe something.

We gave him half his Stanley Cup roster lol.

OilerFan4Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 02:22 PM
  #70
Face Wash
Registered User
 
Face Wash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,603
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
yes we do just dont know for sure what year. I don't think we should offer that till we know what draft year it will be in.
I believe compensation picks a team gives up must be the Team's Own Pick and not a pick they acquired from somewhere else, so the same problem persists with throwing offer sheets over the next two seasons for the Kings in the 2nd round pick compensation range.

By the way, for those wondering why the Kings signed Regehr that quickly to an extension... That's why! They gave up 2 high picks that are in Lombardi's wheelhouse draft-wise and they needed insurance in case Mitchell and Scuderi didn't return and their defense prospects still need seasoning.

Face Wash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 02:22 PM
  #71
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
KingCanadain1976's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
Trading players to free up enough cap space to offer sheet any player sounds like a really bad idea.

Also: Brown is going to get paid, it's going to be shocking. He took a discount last time, I doubt he takes another.
I see him taking in the 5 -5.5 range a for sure pay raise but not breaking the bank. Dean has a track record of signing his star players for very reasonable rates. Jack johnson kopitar drew slava quick I'm not worried about Brown signing at a rate we can afford

KingCanadain1976 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 02:23 PM
  #72
Djp
Registered User
 
Djp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Seattle,WA
Country: United States
Posts: 10,130
vCash: 500
Buffalo would be interested in Clifford---and they have LA's 2nd round picks in 2014 and 2015....

Djp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 02:24 PM
  #73
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
KingCanadain1976's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
they got one of those 2nd round picks back from toronto in the Bernier deal (all i know it would be in either 14 or 15---dont know the deciding criteria)
Again yes i know that but i wouldnt offer that pick till we know what year it is. If its for sure 14 then yeah i could see a 1st and 3 rd from emonton for clifford and 2nd from toronto or something like that.

KingCanadain1976 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 02:28 PM
  #74
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
KingCanadain1976's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
Buffalo would be interested in Clifford---and they have LA's 2nd round picks in 2014 and 2015....
Is this a offer from the sabres or just a statement im not sure?

KingCanadain1976 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 02:29 PM
  #75
Djp
Registered User
 
Djp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Seattle,WA
Country: United States
Posts: 10,130
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face Wash View Post
I believe compensation picks a team gives up must be the Team's Own Pick and not a pick they acquired from somewhere else, so the same problem persists with throwing offer sheets over the next two seasons for the Kings in the 2nd round pick compensation range.
You can trade picks acquired from other teams.

When it comes to offer sheet compensation picks---those come from the team that signed the player unless some other compensation can be done.

Hypothetically say Calgary offer sheeted Pietrangelo a high contract and St Louis took the picks instead. Calgary could have negotiated with them and said instead of giving you are 4 1st rounders over the next 4 years they would instead offer STL all their 3 first this past year+ player/picks (not 1sts)

Djp is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:57 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.