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BUF and VAN

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Old
07-15-2013, 02:04 PM
  #1
DJOpus
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BUF and VAN

These never seem to go well but I've got a proposal depending on what direction BUF is going:

To BUF: Jensen + Booth + 1st + 2nd + 3rd

To VAN: Vanek @ 50% + Stafford @ 50%

VAN gets a top line winger at a reasonable price that they can afford for one year...they also get him before the year starts which allows him to mesh with other players on the roster.

BUF gets a natural goal scoring replacement for Vanek in Jensen, a recent 1st rounder, who was #11 in goals the SEL (top goal scorer under 20 years-old), who brings speed, size and a great release to the table along with a 1st round pick to speed up the rebuild. Eating salary for one year has no negative effect on BUF long-term and is necessary for VAN to be able to make this trade.

...Had to add Stafford @ 50% for Booth + 2nd +3rd late to make things work salary wise for the Canucks...and I don't think BUF will miss Stafford or VAN will miss Booth...if that part is really objectionable for either side, something else can likely be arranged.

To a certain extent, this is Buffalo buying draft picks.

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Old
07-15-2013, 02:07 PM
  #2
mstad101
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Can the Canucks afford to add about 1 million to their cap without having a 3C signed other than Schroeder?
I love the idea of adding Vanek and even Stafford but the Canucks lack almost any real cap space with Tanev unsigned and no real experienced 3C other than Schroeder currently rehabbing from surgery.

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Old
07-15-2013, 02:08 PM
  #3
rypper
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No from canucks. Mainly because I'm not interested in giving up jensen for potentially only a year of vanek.


Last edited by rypper: 07-15-2013 at 02:14 PM.
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Old
07-15-2013, 02:12 PM
  #4
DJOpus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstad101 View Post
Can the Canucks afford to add about 1 million to their cap without having a 3C signed other than Schroeder?
I love the idea of adding Vanek and even Stafford but the Canucks lack almost any real cap space with Tanev unsigned and no real experienced 3C other than Schroeder currently rehabbing from surgery.
Something like this with Santorelli filling Schroeder's spot to start the year if necessary (to be contested by Gaunce and Horvat as well)...

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Drew Stafford ($2.000m—50.0%)
Thomas Vanek ($3.571m—50.0%) / Jordan Schroeder ($0.851m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Chris Higgins ($2.500m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
Dale Weise ($0.677m) / Brad Richardson ($1.150m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Tom Sestito ($0.750m) / Mike Santorelli ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Chris Tanev ($1.700m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Yannick Weber ($0.650m)
Peter Andersson ($0.870m) /

GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
Joacim Eriksson ($0.925m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,146,762; BONUSES: $185,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $338,238

I put all the most expensive depth guys in to show we had room for anyone who makes the team.

Also, I don't care to argue about Kesler on the "3rd line". My lines are arranged in the more traditional, two offensive lines, then defensive line, then 4th line full of scrubs theory (not directed necessarily at you).

Stafford, Kassian, Burrows, and Hansen can all move up and down the line-up as required depending on who's going and who's not.

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Old
07-15-2013, 02:18 PM
  #5
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Im not really sold on this to be honest.

I guess I just don't like going after pure-rental players.

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Old
07-15-2013, 02:21 PM
  #6
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I would be hesitant to do this deal going into the season but would at the trade deadline. That being said I doubt Buffalo does this deal though

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Old
07-15-2013, 02:24 PM
  #7
Sergei Shirokov
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Nah I would just hold onto our futures, we need those now more than ever. Gotta stop trading them for stop gap options.

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Old
07-15-2013, 02:34 PM
  #8
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I'd do it if they drop Stafford. We simply can't afford him.

Something like this:

Quote:
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Thomas Vanek ($3.571m—50.0%) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
Chris Higgins ($2.500m) / Jordan Schroeder ($1.025m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Tom Sestito ($0.750m) / Brad Richardson ($1.150m) / Dale Weise ($0.677m)
/ Mike Santorelli ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Jason Garrison ($4.600m)
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Frank Corrado ($0.599m) / Chris Tanev ($1.200m)
Yannick Weber ($0.650m) /
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,375,706; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,924,294
At least gives us chance to re-sign Vanek, if he's willing to take a bit of a discount in exchange for term + NMC.

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Old
07-15-2013, 02:34 PM
  #9
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Jensen is a great piece to start with but Booth has negative value to Buffalo in a rebuild. Sabres could get more back trading Vanek and Stafford separately. It will take more than 1 prospect, a cap dump and a couple picks for two top 6 forwards capable of scoring 30 goals.

If we have to take Booth back you'd need to add more to beat proposals from other teams.

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Old
07-15-2013, 02:36 PM
  #10
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I would rather hold on to our prospects and picks and try to sign him in the offseason or someone else (Gaborik, Stastny, Cammalleri, Pominville, Michalek)

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Old
07-15-2013, 02:37 PM
  #11
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasSabreFan View Post
Jensen is a great piece to start with but Booth has negative value to Buffalo in a rebuild. Sabres could get more back trading Vanek and Stafford separately. It will take more than 1 prospect, a cap dump and a couple picks for two top 6 forwards capable of scoring 30 goals.

If we have to take Booth back you'd need to add more to beat proposals from other teams.
We don't see Booth as negative value. In fact, I value him about as much as Stafford right now.

We could probably trade him to a team like Nashville for a mid round pick if Buffalo doesn't want him.

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Old
07-15-2013, 02:57 PM
  #12
thefifagod
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From a Sabres POV, I'd rather drop Stafford and Booth from this deal, the Sabres can get something better if Stafford was traded separately. Jensen + 1st + something else smaller for Vanek at 50% makes some sense if the Sabres want to go that route.

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Old
07-15-2013, 03:07 PM
  #13
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I insist u buy us dinner before u bend us over like that

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Old
07-15-2013, 03:17 PM
  #14
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As a Canucks fan, I'd never do that. There is no way we could afford to re-sign Vanek after next season (assuming we re-sign the Sedins). I would never give up a 1st + Jensen for 1 season of Vanek.

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Old
07-15-2013, 04:26 PM
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DJOpus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcrazycanuck View Post
I insist u buy us dinner before u bend us over like that
Canucks fan proposing the deal. Vanek would have been our leading scorer (from a points per game perspective) last year and is a perennial 30 goal guy (scored on pace for 40 goals, 3 times including last year with Cody Hodgson as his centre). To get that asset @ $3.5M for next year is a huge for us. Add the fact that Vanek is a righty with size who is great in front of the net and we should be willing to move heaven and earth for him IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuckles View Post
As a Canucks fan, I'd never do that. There is no way we could afford to re-sign Vanek after next season (assuming we re-sign the Sedins). I would never give up a 1st + Jensen for 1 season of Vanek.
No reason why we wouldn't be able the re-sign Vanek next year.

The Sedins would supposedly be willing to day a discount to stay in Vancouver. Which means Hansen is our only significant UFA that would require a raise. With the cap is expected to go back up next year. In the proposed trade we are getting rid of Booth and adding Stafford at $2M which saves us another $2.25M. We'd certainly have room to add Vanek.

In my mind Vanek is a long-term acquisition but you don't get a player like him on a long-term deal.

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Old
07-15-2013, 04:34 PM
  #16
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If I'm Gillis I'd wait to see how the team responds to this off season before I sacrificed any futures.

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07-15-2013, 05:16 PM
  #17
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Ehh drop the 1st and Stafford

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07-15-2013, 05:38 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderTwinsUnite View Post
Ehh drop the 1st and Stafford
So Jensen, a 2nd, and a 3rd -- and a negative value bag of crap like Booth -- for Vanek? I suspect someone else can do better, including an upcoming first for one.

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07-15-2013, 05:55 PM
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Stafford at 50% >> Booth at whole salary, so you can definitely take that part out. And if Buffalo's holding 50% of Vanek's salary, Regier is going to be asking for the moon for him. If we're holding salary, it's not to help you out; it's to better our return by getting prospects instead of cap dumps.

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07-15-2013, 06:18 PM
  #20
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If we are eating half of Vanek's salary, and half of Stafford's, AND taking Booth @ 100% than the return had better include Jensen, Gaunce and at least a 1st RND pick (which should be late 20's, or #30 if the plan works)!!! Think about Vancouver's discount top-6 after making this deal...

Vanek(@$3.517M)-Sedin-Sedin
Burrows-Kesler-Stafford(@$2M)

That is worth spending some assets if you're Vancouver (Who are in 'Win Now' mode even more-so than most teams)

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Old
07-15-2013, 06:30 PM
  #21
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Is Vancouver still in 'win now' mode? If yes, this is absolutely an acquisition that they want to make. Vanek with the Sedin's would be magical. Do Vancouver fans believe that Jensen will be better than Vanek? I guess he has the potential to have a similar impact, but with Vanek you know what you're getting, and that's an elite goal scorer.

Vanek doesn't want to re-sign with the Sabres because it's very clear we're rebuilding, he has no problem playing for a contender like the Canucks.

Vanek at 3.5 million is a steal.

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Old
07-15-2013, 06:37 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
These never seem to go well but I've got a proposal depending on what direction BUF is going:

To BUF: Jensen + Booth + 1st + 2nd + 3rd

To VAN: Vanek @ 50% + Stafford @ 50%

VAN gets a top line winger at a reasonable price that they can afford for one year...they also get him before the year starts which allows him to mesh with other players on the roster.

BUF gets a natural goal scoring replacement for Vanek in Jensen, a recent 1st rounder, who was #11 in goals the SEL (top goal scorer under 20 years-old), who brings speed, size and a great release to the table along with a 1st round pick to speed up the rebuild. Eating salary for one year has no negative effect on BUF long-term and is necessary for VAN to be able to make this trade.

...Had to add Stafford @ 50% for Booth + 2nd +3rd late to make things work salary wise for the Canucks...and I don't think BUF will miss Stafford or VAN will miss Booth...if that part is really objectionable for either side, something else can likely be arranged.

To a certain extent, this is Buffalo buying draft picks.
No from the Canucks. Not going to give up all these picks and youth for some soon to be ufa. Nope.

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07-15-2013, 06:39 PM
  #23
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I don't understand what the issue is with Booth. He might not have much value now, but provided he's healthy the Sabres could flip him at the deadline and probably pick up a 2nd/3rd round pick. Classic buy low/sell high scenario.

We also have no use for Stafford. You can keep him and sell him elsewhere for a better deal. However if Buffalo retained salary on Vanek and he was willing to negotiate an extension with us beforehand there would definitely be a solid basis for a deal here.

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07-15-2013, 06:51 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
So Jensen, a 2nd, and a 3rd -- and a negative value bag of crap like Booth -- for Vanek? I suspect someone else can do better, including an upcoming first for one.

Did he run over your cat?

He's got no value because of his contract and injuries-- but besides that he's an effective player. Obviously won't be worth anything in a trade. Not sure about the bag of crap part.

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Old
07-15-2013, 06:57 PM
  #25
DJOpus
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Okay, obviously dumping Booth (which VAN included a 2nd + 3rd vs. Stafford @50%) to do is a major issue.

As a Canucks fan, I do Vanek @ 50% for Jensen + 1st and figure out the rest later (and it would require some figuring).

Are BUF fans okay with:

To BUF: Jensen + 1st
To VAN: Vanek @ 50%

?

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