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Old
07-16-2013, 07:11 PM
  #76
Lord Flacko*
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Originally Posted by VegasSabreFan View Post
Which trade would you be referring to for a first line winger with term left?

Because the most recent ones that could be compared are the Bobby Ryan deal, which was a 1st (which would presumably be 5-10 picks better than Vancouver's), Silverberg (who has a lot more value then Jensen) and Noesen (who has similar value to Jensen).

Or there is the Pominville trade, where Buffalo got the #16 pick in a much better draft class, plus Hackett and Larsson, two prospects close to the value of Jensen.

And Vanek is a lot better than Pominville. He's the one player on Buffalo over the last few years that has consistently made his teammates around him better. I can tell you now Darcy will make sure he gets a better package back if he makes a trade. Also neither of these players had salary retained, which would add to the package required to get Vanek.

If you want Vanek at half salary, it will take a 1st, Jensen, and another prospect/young player like Gaunce. If you don't want to pay it that's fine, someone else will.
Jensen, Gaunce, and a first? So basically 3 first round picks, 2 of which have developed very well since being drafted. All for a 30 year old upcoming UFA. Good luck getting that from any team.

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07-16-2013, 08:10 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Lord Flacko View Post
Jensen, Gaunce, and a first? So basically 3 first round picks, 2 of which have developed very well since being drafted. All for a 30 year old upcoming UFA. Good luck getting that from any team.
Show me one deal in the last three years where Darcy didn't get more then the consensus value on these boards.

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Originally Posted by 14s incisor View Post
Yeah...

Stafford and Booth have similar value. Stafford may be worth a bit more due to the fact that his injury issues are slightly better than Booth's, and he has a 0.60 point per game average compared to Booth's 0.53.

If Stafford has value, so does Booth.
except Booth hasn't been good since 08-09 and Stafford hasn't suffered multiple concussions. If this was Booth coming off one injury I'd agree with you. But he's been healthy once in the last 4 years and only managed to put up 40 points that year.

And assuming Buffalo trades Vanek and Stafford, is Booth really going to rebuild his trade value playing on a line with Hodgson and Ott? I don't think so.

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07-16-2013, 08:16 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasSabreFan View Post
Which trade would you be referring to for a first line winger with term left?

Because the most recent ones that could be compared are the Bobby Ryan deal, which was a 1st (which would presumably be 5-10 picks better than Vancouver's), Silverberg (who has a lot more value then Jensen) and Noesen (who has similar value to Jensen).

Or there is the Pominville trade, where Buffalo got the #16 pick in a much better draft class, plus Hackett and Larsson, two prospects close to the value of Jensen.

And Vanek is a lot better than Pominville. He's the one player on Buffalo over the last few years that has consistently made his teammates around him better. I can tell you now Darcy will make sure he gets a better package back if he makes a trade. Also neither of these players had salary retained, which would add to the package required to get Vanek.

If you want Vanek at half salary, it will take a 1st, Jensen, and another prospect/young player like Gaunce. If you don't want to pay it that's fine, someone else will.
Well, then I guess Vancouver and Buffalo wont be making that trade any time soon. It ruins Vancouver's prospect pool for a guy who likely wont be re-signed.

Good luck getting what you're asking for.

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07-16-2013, 08:26 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Nuckles View Post
Well, then I guess Vancouver and Buffalo wont be making that trade any time soon. It ruins Vancouver's prospect pool for a guy who likely wont be re-signed.

Good luck getting what you're asking for.
Why would Vanek not be re-signed? He doesn't want to re-sign in Buffalo because it's apparently clear we are rebuilding. He wants to compete for a cup, Vancouver has an opportunity to contend if they add some more pieces.

Jensen, Gaunce and a 1st is not something I expect, however something like Jensen and a 1st should be the bare minimum of what Darcy should obtain or I will rage.

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07-16-2013, 08:28 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by VegasSabreFan View Post
The problem is this isn't a buy low scenario as we wouldn't just be taking on his full salary but also covering $5+ million in salary between Vanek and Stafford. It's one top prospect, plus one late first, 2 mid round picks, and Booth for Vanek and Stafford both at half salary.

If we are trading Vanek alone at half salary another team would be willing to give a prospect of equal value to Jensen, a late first, and a prospect worth more than either of Booth or the other picks individually.

Stafford alone is worth a 2nd. If Buffalo is giving Stafford at half salary ($2 million) with 2 years left then some GM is going to be willing to give a late first for a guy who scored 30 goals in 60 games a few years back.

all the Vancouver fans can say what they want about not being willing to give up that much, but that's what it will take to get either player. And every trade Buffalo has made in the last 3 years Darcy has held firm with what he asked for and gotten it. With Vanek being better than every other player Buffalo has traded away I don't anticipate he'll be the exception to the rule. Darcy got a first for a third line center in Gaustad and a 2nd for Leopold who was the by far the worst defenseman we iced all last year. He'll have no problem getting full value for Vanek.
Acquiring Booth most certainly would be a buy low scenario. As for the rest of your rant, well, I'm not sure why you chose to direct it at me. I very clearly said I don't want Stafford, and I also said I would consider Jensen and a 1st for Vanek.

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07-16-2013, 08:31 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by VegasSabreFan View Post
Show me one deal in the last three years where Darcy didn't get more then the consensus value on these boards.



except Booth hasn't been good since 08-09 and Stafford hasn't suffered multiple concussions. If this was Booth coming off one injury I'd agree with you. But he's been healthy once in the last 4 years and only managed to put up 40 points that year.

And assuming Buffalo trades Vanek and Stafford, is Booth really going to rebuild his trade value playing on a line with Hodgson and Ott? I don't think so.
It doesn't matter what your gm previously got in trades. Minnesota gave up all those prospects and the 1st because they had the deepest prospect pool in the league. They were looking to take the next step and ensure they make the playoffs/become a contender so they overpaid for Pominville.

Maybe another team will give up what you expect for Vanek, idk. But what I can tell you fore sure is that you're not getting Jensen + Gaunce + 1st from us.

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07-16-2013, 08:41 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Yeah Vanek would be a wonderful add, but getting/keeping our good young talent is something we need more.

Jensen + 1st is far more valuable to us than what would likely be 1 year of Vanek.
We will see how u and other teams feel when the trade deadline comes and u think u have a shot at the cup and Vanek is available. He will probably bring in at least Jensen + 1st at that time IMO.

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07-16-2013, 08:43 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by canucksrool View Post
Not interested in that trade. Vanek is starting to get older and it just doesn't make sense for us. I rather go for someone else.
He's 29 not 39.

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07-16-2013, 08:48 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
is it me, or is he the most hot & cold player in the league?
goes on tears like the best scorer in the league, then gets some injury and comes back and takes forever to get going again ...
that's my impression as a Vanek owner in my fantasy league anyway
he's an enigma for sure
Um playing with the Sedins I don't think u would have to worry about Vanek getting cold too often. Vanek hasn't played with anybody close to as good as the Sedins and still has awesome numbers.

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07-16-2013, 08:51 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by 14s incisor View Post
They need more than a one-dimensional scoring winger to be a contender. They also need another playmaker for the 2nd line, and you could also argue a 3C and more D depth.

If Vanek would be enough to put the Canucks "over the top", then it might be worth trading prospects and picks to acquire him.

As it stands right now, he isn't enough, and with the risk of him leaving when his contract is up, it's simply not worth sacrificing the future that much for one year of Vanek.
OK then San Jose or somebody else will I bet.

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07-16-2013, 08:52 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
We need to develop players from within, this moves is basically a band-aid imo
Hows that been working for u?

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07-16-2013, 09:00 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Devereau View Post
We will see how u and other teams feel when the trade deadline comes and u think u have a shot at the cup and Vanek is available. He will probably bring in at least Jensen + 1st at that time IMO.
Thats fine, you can get that from another team.

Young talent is more important for us at this stage than rentals.

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Hows that been working for u?
Pretty good considering most/the main pieces of our core and our team have been drafted and developed...

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07-16-2013, 09:08 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Thats fine, you can get that from another team.

Young talent is more important for us at this stage than rentals.



Pretty good considering most/the main pieces of our core and our team have been drafted and developed...
To me, a team that is crying for scoring and close to the cup, that is the time to cash in some chips for a guy like Vanek. I don't really want to get rid of Vanek but it sounds like we might. vanek is younger than the Sedins, IMO u guys should go for it soon before they get too old but like I said Vanek has never played with anybody as good as the Sedins but somebody is going to get a hell of a player in Vanek.

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07-16-2013, 09:41 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Devereau View Post
To me, a team that is crying for scoring and close to the cup, that is the time to cash in some chips for a guy like Vanek. I don't really want to get rid of Vanek but it sounds like we might. vanek is younger than the Sedins, IMO u guys should go for it soon before they get too old but like I said Vanek has never played with anybody as good as the Sedins but somebody is going to get a hell of a player in Vanek.
is there anything behind these rumours coming out of Buffalo, or is it just HF speculation?

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07-16-2013, 09:44 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
is there anything behind these rumours coming out of Buffalo, or is it just HF speculation?
Just HF speculation as far as I know. I figure Vanek will go to the highest bidder at the deadline myself.

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07-16-2013, 09:50 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Devereau View Post
To me, a team that is crying for scoring and close to the cup, that is the time to cash in some chips for a guy like Vanek. I don't really want to get rid of Vanek but it sounds like we might. vanek is younger than the Sedins, IMO u guys should go for it soon before they get too old but like I said Vanek has never played with anybody as good as the Sedins but somebody is going to get a hell of a player in Vanek.
Yeah as I said it would be a wonderful add. I would love to have him alongside the Twins but the price is too much, and doesn't make alot of sense for us IMO, we really need to hold onto our young talent and start getting younger.

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07-16-2013, 09:55 PM
  #92
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if vanek could be convinced to sign an extension, you obviously jump on such an opportunity. a player of his caliber would be deadly. jensen and a 2nd..i would be all over.. however i am sure buffalo can get better offers.

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07-16-2013, 10:08 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Johnny Canuck View Post
if vanek could be convinced to sign an extension, you obviously jump on such an opportunity. a player of his caliber would be deadly. jensen and a 2nd..i would be all over.. however i am sure buffalo can get better offers.
I guess they would have to make a deal with a team first and agree on said money to happen if it can be done. Vanek would also have to agree on the contract. Has this ever been done before?

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07-16-2013, 11:00 PM
  #94
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Hows that been working for u?
Fantastic. Large pieces of our core were slowly developed within.

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07-16-2013, 11:53 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
Fantastic. Large pieces of our core were slowly developed within.
and they finally join the team and actually prove their worth when the Sedin's are long gone....closer to that cup

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07-16-2013, 11:57 PM
  #96
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I'm a Canucks fan and I'd still make the original trade as proposed. It seems at least some Canucks and some Buffalo fans are in... So let's get this done.

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Old
07-17-2013, 12:20 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Lord Flacko View Post
Grab a shut down 3rd line center so Kesler can focus more on offense.
Its not that complex.
That still leaves our 2nd line as a one man army. If the Sedin line ever gets shut down, Kesler is our only legitimate scoring threat.

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07-17-2013, 12:24 AM
  #98
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We need to develop players from within, this moves is basically a band-aid imo
I don't think it's a band-aid. I think Vanek has a good half decade of 1st line production.

Doing nothing though is worse though. Every year we wait the Sedins, Luongo, etc. get older. We are only going to get worse as time goes on unless we do something about it.

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07-17-2013, 12:53 AM
  #99
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Exactly, every trade deadline, the Nucks stand pat and do nothing of consequence. Piece mail a 2nd or 3rd rounder for a bum that no one else wants and isn't their need. The core has had their chance and although they got close, they missed out.

The Canucks are at the point where they have to go all in for 1 or 2 more seasons or blow up core and restart. Vanek would be the perfect addition. An elite sniper playing with the Sedins would be utter magic. It would instantly bump up the Canucks chances for one or two last kicks at the can.

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Old
07-17-2013, 01:33 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Devereau View Post
Hows that been working for u?
It's not necessarily what we have done, it's what we need to do. Drafting and retaining homegrown talent is essential in today's NHL.

Anyways, most of our core has been drafted and developed from within

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