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Forbes World's Most Valuable Franchises (Leafs only NHL team in top 50, $1b)

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Old
07-15-2013, 04:54 PM
  #1
Fugu
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Forbes World's Most Valuable Franchises (Leafs only NHL team in top 50, $1b)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbade...-sports-teams/

Real Madrid is #1 @ $3.3 billion.


Quote:
#31 Toronto Maple leafs
Value: $1 billion
Owners: Bell Canada, Rogers Communications
The Leafs ended a nine year playoff drought this year, but lost a seven game series in the first round to the Boston Bruins. Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment, which owned the Maple Leafs, Raptors of the NBA and Air Canada Centre, was sold last year to Bell Canada and Rogers Communications for $2.05 billion.


Last edited by Fugu: 07-15-2013 at 05:24 PM. Reason: fixed to avoid more smart alecky comments like danishh's ;)
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07-15-2013, 05:01 PM
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*Air Canada Centre

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07-15-2013, 05:04 PM
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Killion
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Article forget to mention Larry Tennebaum. Construction magnate. Concrete. His company poured the CN Tower, hotels, foundations for entire subdivisions, you name it throughout the GTA, international interests as well.

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07-15-2013, 05:11 PM
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Wow thats awsome too bad they cant buy championships

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07-15-2013, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dukeofjive View Post
Wow thats awsome too bad they cant buy championships

That would only double their value.

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07-15-2013, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by dukeofjive View Post
Wow thats awsome too bad they cant buy championships
If they could & did do that, HRR's would absolutely explode, leaving half the league gasping for air as the basement & ceiling caps went up accordingly. No, better the Leafs wallow in mediocrity because God Forbid, and I fear the day is coming, but God Forbid they do make it to Conference, Stanley Cup Finals, maybe even win a couple. The havoc it would wreak? Not pretty.

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07-15-2013, 05:52 PM
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It would never happen (because there would always be an interest in someone buying)-but on a PURELY hypothetical level, I'd love to see Rogers/Bell toss the keys on to Bettman's desk and say "we don't want this franchise anymore, do what you will with it".

Would be interesting to see how high it would go in a "to the highest bidder" type of deal....

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07-15-2013, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
If they could & did do that, HRR's would absolutely explode, leaving half the league gasping for air as the basement & ceiling caps went up accordingly. No, better the Leafs wallow in mediocrity because God Forbid, and I fear the day is coming, but God Forbid they do make it to Conference, Stanley Cup Finals, maybe even win a couple. The havoc it would wreak? Not pretty.
Well, though it seems ancient history now, think back to when they went to the Conference final for the first time in forever back in the nineties. I went to the skydome where they showed one of the games on the jumbotron and the place was PACKED. Streets shut down after each of first two playoff wins, ball hockey in the streets-just total nuts.....winning a CUP?

I honestly think there wouldn't be much of a city afterwards


bystander "How horrible, this seems just like the Vancouver Riots! When will Canadian teams lose with grace?"
Leaf Fan: "You misundertand-they WON"

I can see the POV of fans of other Canadian teams: Van/Edm/Calgary/Ottawa made SCF final appearances, and the media did give publicity, but then the next year it goes quiet.

Toronto misses playoffs for 9 years, and finally make it but don't make it past the first round: And the Media talks about it like they lost game 7 of the SCF. And each prior year they missed, regardless of what Canadian teams make it, they always seem in media to take a back seat to The Leafs-so I can understand that frustration.


Last edited by Tinalera: 07-15-2013 at 06:00 PM.
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07-15-2013, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
That would only double their value.
So here's what I don't understand from a serious standpoint-all joking aside:


Detroit wins multiple cups, a team of excellence, measure post for many NHL teams, year after year playoffs, ect-

And yet they don't get the value Toronto does. Why is that? Detroit is doing every thing right year after year, yet don't see the returns.

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07-15-2013, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
Well, though it seems ancient history now, think back to when they went to the Conference final for the first time in forever back in the nineties. I went to the skydome where they showed one of the games on the jumbotron and the place was PACKED. Streets shut down after each of first two playoff wins, ball hockey in the streets-just total nuts.....winning a CUP?

I honestly think there wouldn't be much of a city afterwards


bystander "How horrible, this seems just like the Vancouver Riots! When will Canadian teams lose with grace?"
Leaf Fan: "You misundertand-they WON"

I can see the POV of fans of other Canadian teams: Van/Edm/Calgary/Ottawa made SCF final appearances, and the media did give publicity, but then the next year it goes quiet.

Toronto misses playoffs for 9 years, and finally make it but don't make it past the first round: And the Media talks about it like they lost game 7 of the SCF. And each prior year they missed, regardless of what Canadian teams make it, they always seem in media to take a back seat to The Leafs-so I can understand that frustration.
I think there wouldn't be any vandalism. The only time there was is when that G20
Thing was staged here. Pretty sure there were quite a few activists brought it to try and get their point across.

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07-15-2013, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charon of Styx View Post
I think there wouldn't be any vandalism. The only time there was is when that G20
Thing was staged here. Pretty sure there were quite a few activists brought it to try and get their point across.
I was trying a humour Its really hard to say, maybe we need to look at Boston Red Sox when they ended their almost century drought? Similar maybe?

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07-15-2013, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
Well, though it seems ancient history now, think back to when they went to the Conference final for the first time in forever back in the nineties. I went to the skydome where they showed one of the games on the jumbotron and the place was PACKED. Streets shut down after each of first two playoff wins, ball hockey in the streets-just total nuts.....winning a CUP?

I honestly think there wouldn't be much of a city afterwards
This is a bit of a myth. I've (unwillingly, work purposes) spent some time in Toronto lately and was there during the first round of the playoffs for a day or two. Fans were extremely enthusiastic and well-behaved. The Leafs made the Conference Finals twice in the 2000s iirc, and the city still stands. The riots and so on that happened during the G20 summit were from people shuttiled in from outside.
Know this for a fact as a friend of a friend went there to get in on the action, got himself a good shiner for his trouble.

Vancouver probabably had some of the same issue, doubt real Canucks fans would get all that excited over the Cup finals, they'd reached one in 1994.

Anyway, the salary cap has finally forced the Leafs to build from within and they sadly seem to be improving...

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07-15-2013, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
So here's what I don't understand from a serious standpoint-all joking aside:


Detroit wins multiple cups, a team of excellence, measure post for many NHL teams, year after year playoffs, ect-

And yet they don't get the value Toronto does. Why is that? Detroit is doing every thing right year after year, yet don't see the returns.
Average ticket price below NHL average, sorry when valuing a franchise it's all about the $$$.

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07-15-2013, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensFanDan View Post
Vancouver probabably had some of the same issue, doubt real Canucks fans would get all that excited over the Cup finals, they'd reached one in 1994.... Anyway, the salary cap has finally forced the Leafs to build from within and they sadly seem to be improving...
Unfortunately, we had Riots in 94 as well, really bad one in fact, new policies created & put in place that were all but forgotten Im afraid. But yes. Most of the lead Rioters, professional anarchists, protesters & criminals. Sadly, Mob Mentality spreads like a virus, normal everyday people, kids, young adults becoming unhinged, fuelled by booze, adrenalin.

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07-15-2013, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
If they could & did do that, HRR's would absolutely explode, leaving half the league gasping for air as the basement & ceiling caps went up accordingly. No, better the Leafs wallow in mediocrity because God Forbid, and I fear the day is coming, but God Forbid they do make it to Conference, Stanley Cup Finals, maybe even win a couple. The havoc it would wreak? Not pretty.
It's not like they were the team with the highest payroll before the cap era. I believe New York, Detroit, and Colorado all had more expensive rosters.

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07-15-2013, 07:15 PM
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looks like forbes is calculating it just based on revenue, but these top clubs have many revenue lines which NHL teams don't get, controlled by league instead. Like the uniform sales are controlled by NHL, lots of TV revenue is, etc. There's also accounting questions like how much of the NY rangers/MSG revenue do they score to the Rangers and how much to MSG Co.?

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07-15-2013, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
It's not like they were the team with the highest payroll before the cap era. I believe New York, Detroit, and Colorado all had more expensive rosters.
Ya. Pretty messed up there. John Ferguson Jr., then Burke...

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07-15-2013, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
So here's what I don't understand from a serious standpoint-all joking aside:


Detroit wins multiple cups, a team of excellence, measure post for many NHL teams, year after year playoffs, ect-

And yet they don't get the value Toronto does. Why is that? Detroit is doing every thing right year after year, yet don't see the returns.
Playing in an old dump can't help.

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07-15-2013, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
So here's what I don't understand from a serious standpoint-all joking aside:

Detroit wins multiple cups, a team of excellence, measure post for many NHL teams, year after year playoffs, ect-

And yet they don't get the value Toronto does. Why is that? Detroit is doing every thing right year after year, yet don't see the returns.
Toronto is a larger and wealthier metro area, plus the largest city/metro area in Canada. Detroit is 12th-13th in size in the US, and declining. Detroit is one of the top six franchises in the NHL in terms of valuation so ahead of all Canadian teams that aren't named Toronto or Montreal. Toronto would have a greater number of sponsors upon which to draw and larger base. Off the top of my head, Detroit gets roughly $1 MM per game in gate receipts, while Toronto is well ahead of every other market at almost $2 MM per game. The interest per capita in Canada is higher in general than the US as well.

Detroit has among the best cable contracts in the league though, at ~$30 MM/yr from Fox Sports. I can't think of a US market that has a higher TV income.

The Leafs, per the bankruptcy trial disclosures, were getting $41 MM, but that included Leafs TV and whatever they received from other broadcasters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by canuckster19 View Post
Average ticket price below NHL average, sorry when valuing a franchise it's all about the $$$.
No, Detroit isn't below the NHL average.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
It's not like they were the team with the highest payroll before the cap era. I believe New York, Detroit, and Colorado all had more expensive rosters.
Yes, Detroit and NYR were approaching $80 MM in payroll pre-cap era. Colorado and St Louis were in the $60 MM+ area. I don't believe the Leafs were ever over $60 MM pre-cap.

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07-15-2013, 07:32 PM
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Playing in an old dump can't help.

Yes, this is part of it. I believe they only have about 48 suites at the Joe. Modern arenas have double that, or more.

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07-15-2013, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Toronto is a larger and wealthier metro area, plus the largest city/metro area in Canada. Detroit is 12th-13th in size in the US, and declining. Detroit is one of the top six franchises in the NHL in terms of valuation so ahead of all Canadian teams that aren't named Toronto or Montreal. Toronto would have a greater number of sponsors upon which to draw and larger base. Off the top of my head, Detroit gets roughly $1 MM per game in gate receipts, while Toronto is well ahead of every other market at almost $2 MM per game. The interest per capita in Canada is higher in general than the US as well.

Detroit has among the best cable contracts in the league though, at ~$30 MM/yr from Fox Sports. I can't think of a US market that has a higher TV income.

The Leafs, per the bankruptcy trial disclosures, were getting $41 MM, but that included Leafs TV and whatever they received from other broadcasters.



No, Detroit isn't below the NHL average.



Yes, Detroit and NYR were approaching $80 MM in payroll pre-cap era. Colorado and St Louis were in the $60 MM+ area. I don't believe the Leafs were ever over $60 MM pre-cap.
This says they are, only doc I could find on the matter for 12-13.

http://www.fancostexperience.com/pag...020_pdf001.pdf

Here is 2011-12

http://www.hookedonhockeymagazine.co...1-2012-season/


Pretty much speaks volumes as to why Leafs are the only NHL team on the list.

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07-15-2013, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by canuckster19 View Post
This says they are, only doc I could find on the matter for 12-13.

http://www.fancostexperience.com/pag...020_pdf001.pdf

Here is 2011-12

http://www.hookedonhockeymagazine.co...1-2012-season/


Pretty much speaks volumes as to why Leafs are the only NHL team on the list.

The better source for the ticket averages was the Toronto Star leaked NHL gate receipts reports from around 2008. Detroit was roughly at $55 back then, but have since instituted a new pricing structure. I'm fairly confident that given their overall revenue and valuation, they are not below the average.

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07-15-2013, 08:00 PM
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FCI alert!

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07-15-2013, 08:07 PM
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FCI alert!
Damn straight. Sure hope kdb doesnt see that post.

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07-15-2013, 08:24 PM
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Yes, Detroit and NYR were approaching $80 MM in payroll pre-cap era. Colorado and St Louis were in the $60 MM+ area. I don't believe the Leafs were ever over $60 MM pre-cap.
$65 M in 02-03. Only one year was Detroit over $68. NYR was over $64 M twice.

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