HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Does Bergevin have to sign PK Subban before the season start ?

View Poll Results: should bergy sign PK before the season start ?
yes 76 32.20%
no 67 28.39%
it doesn't matter 93 39.41%
Voters: 236. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-15-2013, 11:40 PM
  #26
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lozela View Post
http://blogs.montrealgazette.com/201...n-with-bruins/

I hope he keeps up his antics that they end up trading him to to the Bruins because Id love to see him on this team because I think hes a very talented player, Hall of Fame defenceman Ray Bourque told former Hab Chris Nilan on Nilans new Off the Cuff radio show on TSN Radio 690 on the afternoon of the game.

Even Ray Bourque knows how it is in MTL. Different GM, different coach, different owners same mistake

To letting Ryder walk twice for nothin

To signing overrated players for too much money (Brisebois, Price, Gorges)

To not adressing size in the middle issue (koivu, Pleky, Desharnaid & now Brunet)

To making star players become Public Enemy #1 after they won a trophy (theodore... Subban)

and the next chapter

trading an allstar player and losing trade (Chelios to Roy to Turgeon and soon Subban)

This market is so predictable.
If Bergevin really cares about winning then he signs Subban to an 8 year contract paying ~60 million -No Excuses.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:39 AM
  #27
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 15,245
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lozela View Post
http://blogs.montrealgazette.com/201...n-with-bruins/

I hope he keeps up his antics that they end up trading him to the Bruins because Id love to see him on this team because I think hes a very talented player, Hall of Fame defenceman Ray Bourque told former Hab Chris Nilan on Nilans new Off the Cuff radio show on TSN Radio 690 on the afternoon of the game.

Even Ray Bourque knows how it is in MTL. Different GM, different coach, different owners same mistake

To letting Ryder walk twice for nothin

To signing overrated players for too much money (Brisebois, Price, Gorges)

To not adressing size in the middle issue (koivu, Pleky, Desharnaid & now Brunet)

To making star players become Public Enemy #1 after they won a trophy (theodore... Subban)

and the next chapter

trading an allstar player and losing trade (Chelios to Roy to Turgeon and soon Subban)

This market is so predictable.
Yup, it is, we all know there will be someone to go drama queen on non-issues, like P.K. not being extended already

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 12:46 AM
  #28
prairie hab
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,054
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
If a busted up, broken Patrice Bergeron gets a 7 year extension that kicks in AFTER this coming season then there is no reason to doubt in our GM getting a deal done with PK Subban is there?

That said, I fully expect Scrooge McDuck to penny pinch and infuriate PK and his agent well into the season.
We get it - you hate Bergevin. You re-state this in EVERY thread.

Sheesh.

prairie hab is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 01:21 AM
  #29
Fish on The Sand
Untouchable
 
Fish on The Sand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Posts: 49,308
vCash: 500
only in Montreal would we have people demanding we sign Markov for whatever it takes but then say we should lowball Subban.

Fish on The Sand is online now  
Old
07-16-2013, 05:05 AM
  #30
Estimated_Prophet
Registered User
 
Estimated_Prophet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,167
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lozela View Post
http://blogs.montrealgazette.com/201...n-with-bruins/

I hope he keeps up his antics that they end up trading him to the Bruins because Id love to see him on this team because I think hes a very talented player, Hall of Fame defenceman Ray Bourque told former Hab Chris Nilan on Nilans new Off the Cuff radio show on TSN Radio 690 on the afternoon of the game.

Even Ray Bourque knows how it is in MTL. Different GM, different coach, different owners same mistake









This market is so predictable.
Quote:
To letting Ryder walk twice for nothin
There weren't any options for Bergevin....

Quote:
To signing overrated players for too much money (Brisebois, Price, Gorges)
You are very premature with your evaluation of the latter two contacts

Quote:
To not adressing size in the middle issue (koivu, Pleky, Desharnaid & now Brunet)
Brunet??? I guess MB didn't select a 6'1" center with the 3rd overall pick last year....It is also very easy and cheap to acquire big centers to play in your top 9 who are young enough to be part of a building core

Quote:
To making star players become Public Enemy #1 after they won a trophy (theodore... Subban)
Theodore sucked all on his own and MB has done no such thing with Subban. Feel free to completely fabricate nonsense to support your equally nonsensical argument.

[QUOTEand the next chapter

trading an allstar player and losing trade (Chelios to Roy to Turgeon and soon Subban)
][/QUOTE]

Now you are going into the absurd by stroking your crystal ball until it releases premonitions of Subban's imminent departure. You even seem to know that the return will be terrible........such wisdom

Estimated_Prophet is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 06:03 AM
  #31
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,172
vCash: 500
At this point, Subban could very well want to wait till next summer to begin extension talks.

If he has another season close to this one ( Norris nominee level), he can ask for a deal making him the top paid dman... & sit back and wait for offer sheets if the habs try to play hardball again.

Expect him & his agent to go for broke in this negociation...

Miller Time is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 06:16 AM
  #32
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,962
vCash: 500
The way I look at it: right now, PK probably is worth Letang(+) money, for the maximum time we can sign him. Which is fair. It is considering that he may or may not perform up to par with last season.

If PK starts the season strong, I think his value can actually reach 9M per. If he wins the Norris again (or even gets 2nd place), he might even reach the 9.5-10.

But if he has a struggling season/start, his value may be akin to Letang's.

PricePkPatch is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 06:34 AM
  #33
25get
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,760
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
only in Montreal would we have people demanding we sign Markov for whatever it takes but then say we should lowball Subban.
So you agree with those who wants a 2nd round for him?
What about those proposing 2-3M for his extension?

Do you think PK still gets a Norris if he does play PP with him (put Diaz, Gorges, Bouillon or Emelin)?

25get is online now  
Old
07-16-2013, 06:40 AM
  #34
Montreal Typical
Registered User
 
Montreal Typical's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Moreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,179
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
The way I look at it: right now, PK probably is worth Letang(+) money, for the maximum time we can sign him. Which is fair. It is considering that he may or may not perform up to par with last season.

If PK starts the season strong, I think his value can actually reach 9M per. If he wins the Norris again (or even gets 2nd place), he might even reach the 9.5-10.
Woah.

Subban is only worth close to 7M if he remains as good as he was last season (and he definitely wasn't 10M good). He's an excellent defenseman, but he's not a game breaker and he doesn't dictate the flow of the game the way that the truly elite players can. Also, keep in mind that Letang's contract will only cover UFA years while Subban's will cover two RFA years.

Montreal Typical is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 06:43 AM
  #35
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,962
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Railman View Post
Woah.

Subban is only worth close to 7M if he remains as good as he was last season (and he definitely wasn't 10M good). He's an excellent defenseman, but he's not a game breaker and he doesn't dictate the flow of the game the way that the truly elite players can. Keep in mind that Letang's contract will only cover UFA years while Subban's will cover two RFA years.
Subban playing constantly at the same level he played last year, only with more maturity is worth more than Letang. He would be a perennial Norris contender, and that is worth 9M, maybe more when you consider eventual Cap inflation.

And won't his next contract only cover 1 RFA year?

PricePkPatch is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 07:00 AM
  #36
sXe
Yuuuuuup!
 
sXe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,729
vCash: 500
Anything under 9.5 M I'll consider a hometown discount.
Bergevin

sXe is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 07:06 AM
  #37
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,962
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sXe View Post
Anything under 9.5 M I'll consider a hometown discount.
Bergevin
I don't mind what Bergevin manage to sign him as. If he breaks the bank, it's most likely because he will have earned it THIS YEAR, as well as last.

It wouldn't be a bad thing to have on our team this generation's Lidstrom.

PricePkPatch is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 07:42 AM
  #38
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,511
vCash: 500
The reason that some of us are worried that Bergevin will screw up the Subban negotiations is that he has screwed them up before. His reasoning in the previous negotiations, which he admitted to, is that he did not know how good a player Subban was, and he wanted more time to evaluate.

Further, this team has a history of discarding young, productive defensemen:
Chelios
Desjardins
Hainsey
Beauchemin
McDonagh

In contrast to keeping young, productive defensemen:
Markov

One list is longer than the other.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 08:07 AM
  #39
Estimated_Prophet
Registered User
 
Estimated_Prophet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,167
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The reason that some of us are worried that Bergevin will screw up the Subban negotiations is that he has screwed them up before. His reasoning in the previous negotiations, which he admitted to, is that he did not know how good a player Subban was, and he wanted more time to evaluate.

Further, this team has a history of discarding young, productive defensemen:
Chelios
Desjardins
Hainsey
Beauchemin
McDonagh

In contrast to keeping young, productive defensemen:
Markov

One list is longer than the other.
That would be the case for every team. players don't play their entire career with one team any longer. To list Hainsey, Beauchemin, and McDonagh as productive d-men at the time of their departure would be a gross exaggeration of the facts.

I am in agreement with Chelios, Desjardins and McDonagh in that they were horrible moves that I threw up in my mouth when they were made.......might even be able to throw Svoboda into that group as well.

The fact is that none of these move have a shred of relevance when referring to the current management group. I personally don't think he screwed up the Subban negotiations but hindsight is a wonderful thing that fans and media seem to like to base their reasonings upon. We don't know if management's hardline stance with Subban forced him to mature and improve his game....we will never know. Everyone is free to speculate but nobody can state definitively that the contract was a mistake.

Estimated_Prophet is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 08:19 AM
  #40
Doublechin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 537
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lozela View Post
And thats exactly why this hockey club is not near from winning.



Only in MTL will a guy win the Norris and have fans from his own team calling it a fluke when guys from other cities would take him in their team in a hearbeat.

Like everyone else, I wonder what kind of player Subban might be outside of the gutless culture of Montreal hockey. His talent is undeniable, one Bruins fans can equate to the likes of Peyton Manning of sorts. You love to hate him, but at some level you would salivate to have him on your squad

http://www.boston.com/sports/columni...eat_bruin.html
That's because the fan base here are used to failures or one hit wonders, they can't seem to actually believe that a Habs player is actually for real.

Doublechin is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 09:06 AM
  #41
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 33,033
vCash: 500
Yes he should, but I don't think he will

Habs 4 Life is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 09:07 AM
  #42
Dagistitsyn
Registered User
 
Dagistitsyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,522
vCash: 500
I can see this dragging on until the bitter end.

Dagistitsyn is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 09:15 AM
  #43
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
It doesn't matter. He'll sign him when he's ready to sign him.

Habsterix* is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 09:31 AM
  #44
poetryinmotion
Registered User
 
poetryinmotion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,087
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Railman View Post
Woah.

Subban is only worth close to 7M if he remains as good as he was last season (and he definitely wasn't 10M good). He's an excellent defenseman, but he's not a game breaker and he doesn't dictate the flow of the game the way that the truly elite players can. Also, keep in mind that Letang's contract will only cover UFA years while Subban's will cover two RFA years.
Well you are just plain wrong.

poetryinmotion is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 09:36 AM
  #45
11Goat11
Inside her
 
11Goat11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,762
vCash: 500
I don't get those who say Bergevin screwed up the with the PK bridge contract. Nothing will make me believe that the short contract did not contribute to his Norris trophy winning season.

PK had that extra motivation to prove his doubters wrong, slightly change his attitude to a team first mentality, and to be a leader. If Bergevin gave him the 5,6,7, year big money deal at the time, it would have been an insult to Patches, Price, and others who took the bridge contract and got paid later. It also sets great precedent for the Gallys as well.

Bergevin is trying to instill a team first culture and I am glad that we have a GM who has some balls to do what he thinks is right. PK is going to get paid, and Marc knows he will deserve it, plus the cap will be higher when his salary kicks in so no stressing if PK makes an extra million.

11Goat11 is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 09:39 AM
  #46
Brainiac
Registered User
 
Brainiac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,251
vCash: 552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
He doesn't have the cap space, not for this year anyway.
Come on, LG...

IIRC, Subban himself said that he's ready to talk extension. He wants to be a career Habs.

If I'm Bergevin, I start the discussion right away. I just don't see Subban regressing enough next year so that his value would dip even just a little bit.

However, I'm not sure Bergevin will do that. If he continues his little games with Subban and waits at the last minute to low-ball him again, I'm off tbh.

Bergevin said he wanted to see things from Subban before commiting long term. Subban walked the walk, now it's time for Bergevin to do the same.

Brainiac is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 09:47 AM
  #47
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,508
vCash: 500
At this point it's mostly out of MB hands. PK is now in the driver's seat and he will write his own contract whenever he feels like it. So all this talk about how much he is worth is basically meaningless because it only matters how much PK thinks he's worth, and that's not likely to change regardless of what happens this season.

Sorinth is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 09:57 AM
  #48
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,508
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11Goat11 View Post
I don't get those who say Bergevin screwed up the with the PK bridge contract. Nothing will make me believe that the short contract did not contribute to his Norris trophy winning season.

PK had that extra motivation to prove his doubters wrong, slightly change his attitude to a team first mentality, and to be a leader. If Bergevin gave him the 5,6,7, year big money deal at the time, it would have been an insult to Patches, Price, and others who took the bridge contract and got paid later. It also sets great precedent for the Gallys as well.

Bergevin is trying to instill a team first culture and I am glad that we have a GM who has some balls to do what he thinks is right. PK is going to get paid, and Marc knows he will deserve it, plus the cap will be higher when his salary kicks in so no stressing if PK makes an extra million.
I get that nothing I say will change your mind but PK needed to reign in his exuberance so extra motivation to prove his doubters wrong would probably work against him in that case. It's more likely Markov provided a calming influence for him which allowed him to maintain his focus/discipline more. It's also completely normal for a young player to become a more of a leader and have more of a team first mentality as he ages especially when in your early 20s. Especially since PK had a team first mentality to begin with.

It's laughable that you think Patches and Price would be insulted and as for Galchenyuk if he's a 1st line player by the time he signs his extension he's not going to care whether PK signed a bridge deal or not. He's going to point out all the other players who got long term deals, and if MB doesn't give him one then he'll probably do the same thing PK did and holdout. Do you really want all our young players to feel like they have to holdout to get what they are worth?

Sorinth is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 10:00 AM
  #49
Brainiac
Registered User
 
Brainiac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,251
vCash: 552
And for the record, my doubts, as of right now, stem from the fact that MB is always willing to sign/extend about anybody (Price, DD, Bouillon, Briere, White). But with Subban, it doesn't seem to be a priority...

I could be wrong, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised to see MB being a dick with Subban and dragging things on forever.

Brainiac is offline  
Old
07-16-2013, 10:06 AM
  #50
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 23,511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
We don't know if management's hardline stance with Subban forced him to mature and improve his game....we will never know.
That's about the last little piece of argument the people who think Bergevin did a good thing have. You obviously believe it did help otherwise you wouldn't bring it up.
However, listening to PK through the negotiations and lockout, he sounded more mature than a lot of his older teammates, some of which are our supposed leaders.
Also, if you followed PK over his young career, you know his progression curve since the juniors has been remarkable. No reason to think he doesn't get a Norris with a bigger deal in place. The guy has improved tremendously season after season. He did the same in his junior days, was it a monetary issue then as well? So why would it be one now.

It remains a possibility, and maybe served as a slight motivation, but I doubt it went as far as to have the impact some people like to imply.
He matured because that's usually what experience and age do to people. He improved because he trained hard, as usual, focused on some of his flaws and improved his strengths. That's why he got better. It's not because he signed a deal he wasn't happy with that he like pressed on a button and went into serious super Subban mode.


Last edited by Kriss E: 07-16-2013 at 10:12 AM.
Kriss E is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:11 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.