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OT: Is the CFL a minor league?

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Old
07-16-2013, 08:36 AM
  #26
cutchemist42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSZ56 View Post
I totally agree with that analogy but it seems many on this site do not. The sad part is the most vocal CFL bashers are "Canadians" primarily hailing from the Greater Toronto Area.
Yep, and those "NFL" fans are the worst. They don't care for any football except NFL and think they are an expert on players in the draft when they've never watched them play 1 down on Saturdays. A Southern Ontario NFL fan cares about 1 thing, his Proline ticket.

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07-16-2013, 08:39 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
Obviously QC, we get more then 15 thousand people to every single Rouge et Or college Football game, and have the ''Stade Telus'' that could be made a little bigger. We were even said to be a possible landing spot for Hamilton if they relocated.

But whatever, the CFL will most likely ignore us like every single sports league in existance (other then Can-Am baseball and the CHL) and go to...like Moncton.
Everything I've heard says its the university actually that has blocked the CFL from even holding exhibitions or Touchdown Atlantic type events. The university has a good thing going, and does not want the CFL in on that business.

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07-16-2013, 08:55 AM
  #28
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The problem for the CFL in Quebec City is the same problem as NHL in Quebec City.. Montreal.

Alouettes own territory rights from the entire Quebec province.

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07-16-2013, 09:10 AM
  #29
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Think you're giving the CFL too much credit. Second tier professional maybe, but thats not saying a whole lot. Given the limited talent pool of people that play our style of "football" the NFL soaks up the vast majority of decent talent. There's not a whole lot left over for the CFL, Arena League, UFL, etc. after that.

The best NCAA teams (or hell the Top SEC teams) could probably whip a CFL team up and down the field.

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07-16-2013, 09:13 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by LouisOlivier View Post
The problem for the CFL in Quebec City is the same problem as NHL in Quebec City.. Montreal.

Alouettes own territory rights from the entire Quebec province.
That's something I've also heard. And if it's true it's incredibly stupid.

Sure, the Alouettes are doing ok right now... because they won a lot recently. But now that their apex has passed (with the coach living and their QB soon retiring) they seem started for years of hard times.

With the competition from top level Soccer during the Summer, we'll see how many people keep going to games if they keep losing and have no real rivals.

But whatever, it's their choice.

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07-16-2013, 09:17 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceAce View Post
Think you're giving the CFL too much credit. Second tier professional maybe, but thats not saying a whole lot. Given the limited talent pool of people that play our style of "football" the NFL soaks up the vast majority of decent talent. There's not a whole lot left over for the CFL, Arena League, UFL, etc. after that.

The best NCAA teams (or hell the Top SEC teams) could probably whip a CFL team up and down the field.
Not if they use CFL rules they can't. Just imagine an NCAA quarterback seeing an extra defender, or a 275 pound linebacker having to run further to cut off the sideline, or stepping up to a running back going full speed before the ball is snapped. Would be like watching Lindy Ruff coach an IIHF game in Finland.

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07-16-2013, 09:19 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by tony d View Post
I like the CFL. Obviously it's not as good as the NFL but it's still a solid sports league. I have it with MLS as the 5th best major sports league in North America.
Whereas I would consider neither MLS nor the CFL to be major ports leagues. But I'll admit that I tend to not take think of them as major leagues for two reasons:

1. Multiple teams with the same owner. Although, I think MLS may no longer suffer from this, but they did in the past.

2. Salary levels that are more comparable to minor leagues than major leagues.

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07-16-2013, 09:23 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceAce View Post
Think you're giving the CFL too much credit. Second tier professional maybe, but thats not saying a whole lot. Given the limited talent pool of people that play our style of "football" the NFL soaks up the vast majority of decent talent. There's not a whole lot left over for the CFL, Arena League, UFL, etc. after that.

The best NCAA teams (or hell the Top SEC teams) could probably whip a CFL team up and down the field.
Pretty ignorant to say there's no football talent beyond the NFL. Every year NCAA graduates thousands of div 1 football players many of whom are very talented, it's basically a football factory. Meanwhile there's maybe just a few hundred spots open on NFL rosters so any of these guys who want to play pro football have few options beyond the NFL. Further due to smaller field the NFL generally needs bulkier players, while on the larger CFL field being 250lbs-350lbs doesn't matter so much so often the 2 leagues are not even after the same sort of player.

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07-16-2013, 09:28 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rojac View Post
Whereas I would consider neither MLS nor the CFL to be major ports leagues. But I'll admit that I tend to not take think of them as major leagues for two reasons:

1. Multiple teams with the same owner. Although, I think MLS may no longer suffer from this, but they did in the past.

2. Salary levels that are more comparable to minor leagues than major leagues.
I think there is still a bit of that in MLS, although technically since it's a single-entity, it really just means certain owners own a higher percentage of the league than others.

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07-16-2013, 09:31 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by wunderpanda View Post
Not if they use CFL rules they can't. Just imagine an NCAA quarterback seeing an extra defender, or a 275 pound linebacker having to run further to cut off the sideline, or stepping up to a running back going full speed before the ball is snapped. Would be like watching Lindy Ruff coach an IIHF game in Finland.
Dont think those minor rules changes are going to yield that much of an advantage. If my 275 lb LB (who runs a 4.3) has to run an extra 5 feet to cut off a corner, I dont see that being that large of an impediment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
Pretty ignorant to say there's no football talent beyond the NFL. Every year NCAA graduates thousands of div 1 football players many of whom are very talented, it's basically a football factory.
I didnt say there wasnt any talent beyond the NFL. Read and comprehend before you go calling others "ignorant"

Quote:
Meanwhile there's maybe just a few hundred spots open on NFL rosters so any of these guys who want to play pro football have few options beyond the NFL. Further due to smaller field the NFL generally needs bulkier players, while on the larger CFL field being 250lbs-350lbs doesn't matter so much so often the 2 leagues are not even after the same sort of player.
However you want to spin it, the CFL is picking through the leftovers the NFL doesnt want. The "well we dont want those players, anyway" logic is sort of laughable.

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07-16-2013, 09:32 AM
  #36
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Speaking of football leagues and minor leagues...



I miss NFL Europe.

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07-16-2013, 09:34 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rojac View Post
Whereas I would consider neither MLS nor the CFL to be major ports leagues. But I'll admit that I tend to not take think of them as major leagues for two reasons:

1. Multiple teams with the same owner. Although, I think MLS may no longer suffer from this, but they did in the past.

2. Salary levels that are more comparable to minor leagues than major leagues.
I'm pretty sure t ownership structure means that statement is false.

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07-16-2013, 09:37 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Bure All Day View Post
The fact we (CFL) have different rules and game-style changes it a bit I think.

CFL is a pretty big step down from the NHL though, I wouldn't want to imagine a Ti-cats vs NFL team matchup...
I wouldn't say it's a guaranteed win for the NFL though. If the game is played on a CFL field I'd put my money down on the CFL team winning, vice versa if it was an NFL field. I don't like to compare either league to the other because they are two completely different style of games.

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07-16-2013, 09:42 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Stats01 View Post
I wouldn't say it's a guaranteed win for the NFL though. If the game is played on a CFL field I'd put my money down on the CFL team winning, vice versa if it was an NFL field. I don't like to compare either league to the other because they are two completely different style of games.
I personally feel the best Aloutettes team from the Trestman era would still lose to the NFL's worst team.

If it was the CFL field, I might still think the Alouettes would be a -35 underdog.

I love the CFL too.

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07-16-2013, 09:43 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceAce View Post
Think you're giving the CFL too much credit. Second tier professional maybe, but thats not saying a whole lot. Given the limited talent pool of people that play our style of "football" the NFL soaks up the vast majority of decent talent. There's not a whole lot left over for the CFL, Arena League, UFL, etc. after that.

The best NCAA teams (or hell the Top SEC teams) could probably whip a CFL team up and down the field.
I'd love to see big fat SEC line-men try to deal with a shorter time clock, a bigger field, and more mobile quarter-backs and CFL teams who know how to play to the advantages of the CFL field. People who don't watch the CFL regularly don't understand how different the two styles are.

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07-16-2013, 09:44 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
I personally feel the best Aloutettes team from the Trestman era would still lose to the NFL's worst team.

If it was the CFL field, I might still think the Alouettes would be a -35 underdog.

I love the CFL too.
I'd take the points

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07-16-2013, 09:45 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stats01 View Post
I wouldn't say it's a guaranteed win for the NFL though. If the game is played on a CFL field I'd put my money down on the CFL team winning, vice versa if it was an NFL field. I don't like to compare either league to the other because they are two completely different style of games.
You're kidding yourself if you think a CFL team would beat an NFL team simply because of the field. The sheer disparity in talent between starters in the two leagues is enormous.

The Kansas City Chiefs would likely throttle the Toronto Argos in Toronto. It wouldn't even be close.

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07-16-2013, 09:49 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by MrSZ56 View Post
As a long time reader of this site I have noticed a disturbing number of threads where people rip the CFL and call it a minor league product. They compare the league to the AHL and act as if winning the Grey Cup means nothing more than winning the Calder Cup. How is the CFL comparable to the AHL? The CFL kills the AHL in TV viewership, in media coverage, and in talent level. The talent level in the AHL is well below not only the KHL but even some other European Leagues like the NLA, the Swedish League, and the Finnish League. Simply put, the CFL gets all the best football players outside the NFL, while the AHL is at best the 5th ranked hockey league in the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSZ56 View Post
I totally agree with that analogy but it seems many on this site do not. The sad part is the most vocal CFL bashers are "Canadians" primarily hailing from the Greater Toronto Area.
Okay, are people not allowed to like what they want anymore? Why do have to like the CFL if you are from Toronto or any other city? Why do like the NHL when its based in New York?

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Originally Posted by rojac View Post
Whereas I would consider neither MLS nor the CFL to be major ports leagues. But I'll admit that I tend to not take think of them as major leagues for two reasons:

1. Multiple teams with the same owner. Although, I think MLS may no longer suffer from this, but they did in the past.

2. Salary levels that are more comparable to minor leagues than major leagues.
MLS HQ/AEG owns at least 50 percent of every team or used to. Frankly I consider it the same as the CFL and the over zealous fans to go with it. Give me Barclays any day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Exactly. The best of the best are in the NFL, nobody doubts that (eg Ovechkin, Datsyuk, etc for NHL).

To me a guy like Milt Stegall or Charles Roberts (to use some BB examples that fit well) are like a Sergei Mozyakin. Could never fit the prototype for the big league, much too small and played to different of a game. However became game changers at the lower level that played the style of game that allowed them to excel. If the NFL had used CFL rules those guys would have been stars. Not superstars, but quality players. Remember that most CFL players were NCAA Div 1 superstars (except the odd one here and there, same as NFL though who we find backups in college being key NFL players).

Obviously Tom Brady comes to CFL he will more than dominate. But to say the CFL is made up of guys who couldn't crack it in NFL (ala AHL) is not at all true, as it isn't with KHL since it is two different games that are played, A LOT more different than even KHL to NHL.

I love how most of the hate comes from Canadians who want to feel superior for watching "the best" and most Americans agree that although different the Canadian game is an exciting brand of football to watch.
There are lots of the AHL guys who could crack but don't because they are prospects, personal issues. As for the Bashing, no different from hockey fans and the NHL>>>KHL(used to be true, maybe not so much anymore.)

For some, it's not about the skill level or players. It's the fact it has 8 teams. And it is getting it's 9th in a weak market. And has no current plans for a tenth. Even the lowly MLS is planning for 24 teams at some point. And pointing out ratings is rather dubious, just like when NHL fans do it to the NBA because both the NHL and CFL are gate driven so ratings mean squat, because you have to fill out the stadium to make money.

Bascially the fact OP feels CFL> AHL is solely because one is Canadian and one is not, which is BS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
Yep, and those "NFL" fans are the worst. They don't care for any football except NFL and think they are an expert on players in the draft when they've never watched them play 1 down on Saturdays. A Southern Ontario NFL fan cares about 1 thing, his Proline ticket.
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Old
07-16-2013, 09:59 AM
  #44
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I'd love to see big fat SEC line-men try to deal with a shorter time clock, a bigger field, and more mobile quarter-backs and CFL teams who know how to play to the advantages of the CFL field. People who don't watch the CFL regularly don't understand how different the two styles are.
Pretty sure big, fat NFL linemen had no problem dealing with Henry Burris during his very short-lived big league career.

Sorry guys, but Ice Age is correct. The talent disparity is huge between the NFL and CFL.

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07-16-2013, 10:06 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
I'm pretty sure t ownership structure means that statement is false.
Can you clarify what that statement means? It's really not making any sense to me.

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07-16-2013, 10:09 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceAce View Post
Think you're giving the CFL too much credit. Second tier professional maybe, but thats not saying a whole lot. Given the limited talent pool of people that play our style of "football" the NFL soaks up the vast majority of decent talent. There's not a whole lot left over for the CFL, Arena League, UFL, etc. after that.

The best NCAA teams (or hell the Top SEC teams) could probably whip a CFL team up and down the field.
How pray tell will a team composed of 90%+ of players who will never be good enough to play in the CFL, whip a CFL team up and down the field?

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07-16-2013, 10:15 AM
  #47
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There's no chance an NCAA team beats a CFL team. That would be like an OHL team beating an AHL team.

Use your head -- you don't make it pro at all unless you're elite at the college level.

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07-16-2013, 10:30 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by MrSZ56 View Post
I agree, but the AHL is in hockey's fourth tier while the CFL is football's second tier.

1. NHL
2. KHL
3. European Leagues (NLA, Sweden League, Finish League, etc.)
4. AHL
we'll see next year.

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07-16-2013, 10:32 AM
  #49
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It's hard for me to compare the CFL to anything. I don't like the AAA baseball reference, because with AAA pretty much everyone goes through there before they hit the Majors. To me that more closely resembles NCAA. I think the AHL comparison works. It's just a higher talent level.

No, NCAA teams aren't going to beat CFL teams. On the best teams in the country only a handful go to the NFL. Some others go to the CFL, AFL, or other leagues. Most sell insurance.

No, CFL teams aren't going to beat NFL teams regardless of the playing field. The reason those guys made it to the league is because not only are they 6-6 250, but they also run a 4.5 40. Freaks of nature.

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07-16-2013, 10:36 AM
  #50
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I don't know, the comparison seems pretty fair. Depending how you count, AHL is 2nd-4th tier, while CFL is 3rd-4th tier.

The rules are slightly different from the NFL, but any first viewer is going to immediately recognize it as basically the same game.

Quote:
No, NCAA teams aren't going to beat CFL teams.
Oh, I disagree with that. CFL champ against NCAA champ - I take NCAA champ.

Plus NCAA is just such a bigger, more prominent, *much* more popular "league".

 
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