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OT: Is the CFL a minor league?

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Old
07-16-2013, 12:16 PM
  #76
Cotton500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Exactly. The best of the best are in the NFL, nobody doubts that (eg Ovechkin, Datsyuk, etc for NHL).

To me a guy like Milt Stegall or Charles Roberts (to use some BB examples that fit well) are like a Sergei Mozyakin. Could never fit the prototype for the big league, much too small and played to different of a game. However became game changers at the lower level that played the style of game that allowed them to excel. If the NFL had used CFL rules those guys would have been stars. Not superstars, but quality players. Remember that most CFL players were NCAA Div 1 superstars (except the odd one here and there, same as NFL though who we find backups in college being key NFL players).

Obviously Tom Brady comes to CFL he will more than dominate. But to say the CFL is made up of guys who couldn't crack it in NFL (ala AHL) is not at all true, as it isn't with KHL since it is two different games that are played, A LOT more different than even KHL to NHL.

I love how most of the hate comes from Canadians who want to feel superior for watching "the best" and most Americans agree that although different the Canadian game is an exciting brand of football to watch.
The bolded is so untrue.

Please point out the division 1 superstars on the argos roster below:

61 King, Jarriel OL Import 6.05 315 1987-02-27 South Carolina
81 Barnes, Jason SB Import 6.03 187 1984-04-11 Sacramento State
66 Rogers, SirVincent G Import 6.04 319 1986-05-09 Houston
6 Ball, Marcus LB Import 6.01 209 1987-07-21 Memphis
92 Tripp, Kiante DT Import 6.05 277 1987-10-07 Georgia
45 McCune, Robert LB Import 6.01 235 1979-03-09 Louisville
10 Jackson, Janzen DB Import 6.00 187 1990-12-14 McNeese State
96 Mitchell, Khalif DT Import 6.06 315 1985-04-07 East Carolina
19 Carter, Jalil DB Import 6.01 205 1989-07-18 Akron
11 Inman, Dontrelle WR Import 6.03 204 1989-01-31 Virginia
75 Williams, Jonathan DE Import 6.02 282 1985-11-22 South Carolina
28 Isaac, Brandon LB Import 6.03 208 1984-12-11 South Carolina
9 Iglesias, Juaquin SB Import 6.01 212 1987-08-22 Oklahoma
25 Watkins, Patrick DB Import 6.05 205 1982-12-18 Florida State
15 Ray, Ricky QB Import 6.03 204 1979-10-22 Sacramento State
7 Harris, Trevor QB Import 6.03 209 1986-05-31 Edinboro
4 Robinson, Jamie DB Import 6.02 192 1987-06-28 Florida State
44 Kackert, Chad RB Import 5.08 206 1986-09-15 New Hampshire
17 Collaros, Zach QB Import 6.00 216 1988-08-27 Cincinnati
23 Alexander, Mister LB Import 6.02 182 1988-06-02 Florida State
65 Washington, Tony T Import 6.07 318 1986-02-17 Abilene Christian
29 Steele, Curtis RB Import 6.00 180 1987-03-24 Memphis
2 Owens, Chad SB/KR Import 5.08 180 1982-04-03 Hawaii
27 Horton, Shane LB Import 6.01 215 1988-07-25 Southern California

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Old
07-16-2013, 12:16 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
And once again you will not answer the fact that CFL is 7th in the WORLD in attendance.
As this is the BoH board, it needs pointing out that bringing up attendance without the context of revenue is pointless. And the CFL is nowhere near the #7 spot in terms of revenue.

The CFL is a fun, niche league, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 
Old
07-16-2013, 12:18 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by rattler280 View Post
Could that be because there is no team there though?

I know for myself, when there isn't a team in Ottawa I couldn't care less about the CFL and don't watch it at all, however I am a die hard Chargers fan and watch the NFL weekly. Most of my friends are the same way. That being said, when we do get a CFL team, I will be getting seasons tickets because it's relatively inexpensive and great entertainment. I'm only a CFL fan when we have a team and I'm sure there are lots of people like me.
Weird thing is that the people I know from New Brunswick, Nova Scotia area are all much more aware of CFL, and many are fans.

Could be that that area does have CIS teams I suppose (Saint Mary's, Mount Allison, etc)

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07-16-2013, 12:18 PM
  #79
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I don't think you can make the analogies with any other sports. There's variables not in play in any other sports;

-as mentioned football basically only draws players from 2 countries. NFL Europe failed, the sport of american football is not becoming international any time soon
-the sports themselves are very different; different size fields, different size end zones, NFL has a much bigger playbook and smaller end zone, the kicking game is totally different, the hurry up offense, 3 downs vs 4 downs, CFL having more players on the field. While uncommon, some NFL cuts do even worse in the CFL.

Both sports evolved from rugby. Rugby evolved into Canadian Football which evolved even further into NFL football (mainly the kicking game).

While NFL fans do rip on the CFL you could easily argue its the other way around; CFL fans constantly attempt to compare their league to the NFL and even claim it's better. Yes there's a handful of CFL playes who could play in the NFL but the talent disparity is not even close. Forget cheifs vs. alouettes, the worst NFL team would beat a CFL all star game under CFL rules.

I understand why CFL fans like the league with it being faster and more passing. Personally I think a more valid comparison would be 4 on 4 roller hockey to 5 on 5 ice hockey.

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07-16-2013, 12:28 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
As this is the BoH board, it needs pointing out that bringing up attendance without the context of revenue is pointless. And the CFL is nowhere near the #7 spot in terms of revenue.

The CFL is a fun, niche league, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Buffalo Bills ticket price: 50-102$
Winnipeg Blue Bombers ticket price: 24-164$

In terms of ticket price, the CFL is not THAT far off.

Of course high revenue teams like Giants blow CFL out of water (I think it was like 110-725$).

Of course that is NFL, the #1 league in the world. There's a reason like 30 of the NFL teams were listed in Forbes top 50 most valuable franchises.

Again, it is a fun niche league. I got no problems with that. But I don't go around critizing people for liking KHL or junior hockey.

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07-16-2013, 12:35 PM
  #81
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After looking at the responses here I realized that I was wrong, many on this website do NOT bash the CFL, it is actually a small number of people that do so on a fairly regular basis. The part I found funny is the number of Americans that will step up and argue that the CFL is a decent league against the bashers from the Greater Toronto Area.

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07-16-2013, 12:38 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Buffalo Bills ticket price: 50-102$
Winnipeg Blue Bombers ticket price: 24-164$

In terms of ticket price, the CFL is not THAT far off.

Of course high revenue teams like Giants blow CFL out of water (I think it was like 110-725$).

Of course that is NFL, the #1 league in the world. There's a reason like 30 of the NFL teams were listed in Forbes top 50 most valuable franchises.
It also helps that they have ten times the population to draw on as well.

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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Plus NCAA is just such a bigger, more prominent, *much* more popular "league".
Popularity != quality.

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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
The CFL doesn't draw marginal NFL players who can't quite make it - it draws players who aren't even good enough to have marginal NFL careers.
Doug Flutie, Warren Moon (and I"m sure there's others) say hello.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
Sportsnet 590 the biggest sports radio station in TO slams the CFL every chance they get. its been that way for a very long time. you hear it enough times you start believing it.. what can you do?
A Rogers owned radio station slamming the CFL? Shocking. Always found listening to sports radio to be like listening to talk radio. You cna get better quality analysis from pretty much anywhere else, be it newspapers, tv, the blogosphere, even HFBoards.

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07-16-2013, 12:40 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by MrSZ56 View Post
After looking at the responses here I realized that I was wrong, many on this website do NOT bash the CFL, it is actually a small number of people that do so on a fairly regular basis. The part I found funny is the number of Americans that will step up and argue that the CFL is a decent league against the bashers from the Greater Toronto Area.
its kinda fitting for that city north of me to finally get a championship team (Stupid Argos) and its a team no one cares about..

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07-16-2013, 12:42 PM
  #84
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Love watching the CFL. Mainly because i just love football.

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Old
07-16-2013, 12:44 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by canadiancreed View Post



A Rogers owned radio station slamming the CFL? .
goes to my point. they've had an agenda for a long time.

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07-16-2013, 12:46 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSZ56 View Post
After looking at the responses here I realized that I was wrong, many on this website do NOT bash the CFL, it is actually a small number of people that do so on a fairly regular basis. The part I found funny is the number of Americans that will step up and argue that the CFL is a decent league against the bashers from the Greater Toronto Area.
See Holden. This guy just us jealous or has an inferiority complex of Toronto.

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07-16-2013, 12:48 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
its kinda fitting for that city north of me to finally get a championship team (Stupid Argos) and its a team no one cares about..
Seems to be a Toronto thing, at least as of late. The interest in the team is adversely proportionate to their success level.

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goes to my point. they've had an agenda for a long time.
Well since 2010 when they stopped broadcasting CFL games. But yes that, the team having to find other accomodations come 2015 or so, the MLS team being hostile to having them share accomodations. Toronto does seem to be....unwelcoming to having the team in its' midst.

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07-16-2013, 12:48 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by superdeluxe View Post
Love watching the CFL. Mainly because i just love football.
this.. admittedly, I fell out of love with CFL during my 20's. got caught up in the flash that's the NFL. I do find it hard to watch an NFL game now since ive been back watching CFL. they need to speed the game up

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07-16-2013, 12:50 PM
  #89
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It's not really a hidden agenda. Many of the people I know from Toronto don't like the CFL and want the NFL in Toronto. After LA, Toronto is the most obvious expansion/relocation option for an NFL team. They view the CFL as what is preventing the NFL from moving a team to Toronto, so they want it to fail. If the CFL failed, they believe the NFL would put a team in Toronto the next day.

It's not just that they dislike the CFL -- they view the CFL as standing in the way of something they want, an NFL team in Toronto. I think that explains some of their angry dismissiveness of the CFL. They think they can't just ignore it, but that they have to tear it down to get what they really want.

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07-16-2013, 12:53 PM
  #90
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A bit OT but I find Australian football to be the best descendant of ancient "football" I have ever watched.

Great mix of athleticism, passing, kicking, physiciality, offence & defensive balance. Most fluid one too basically no stoppage

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07-16-2013, 12:56 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Cotton500 View Post
The bolded is so untrue.
Did a quick look at some of the easily statable positions (QB/WR)

2 Owens, Chad SB/KR Import 5.08 180 1982-04-03 Hawaii
Hawaiʻi's all-time career yardage leader with 5,461 all-purpose yards
Gained 3,031 receiving yards (12.7 avg.) and 29 touchdowns in 44 games
Awarded the Mosi Tatupu Award for best Special Teams Player in 2004

17 Collaros, Zach QB Import 6.00 216 1988-08-27 Cincinnati
Collaros was Cincinnati's starting quarterback for the 2010 season. He led the Big East in passing yards with 2,902 and touchdowns with 26. He was selected as the 2010 First-Team All-Big East quarterback

in two seconds look. Maybe superstars is not the right word, but these guys were stars and crucial players for their teams.

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07-16-2013, 12:58 PM
  #92
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It's not really a hidden agenda. Many of the people I know from Toronto don't like the CFL and want the NFL in Toronto. After LA, Toronto is the most obvious expansion/relocation option for an NFL team. They view the CFL as what is preventing the NFL from moving a team to Toronto, so they want it to fail. If the CFL failed, they believe the NFL would put a team in Toronto the next day.

It's not just that they dislike the CFL -- they view the CFL as standing in the way of something they want, an NFL team in Toronto. I think that explains some of their angry dismissiveness of the CFL. They think they can't just ignore it, but that they have to tear it down to get what they really want.
see how confused they are, thanks to the media.

hate the Argos than if they are blocking the NFL (not going to happen anyways).. to hate the CFL is silly

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07-16-2013, 01:01 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Did a quick look at some of the easily statable positions (QB/WR)

2 Owens, Chad SB/KR Import 5.08 180 1982-04-03 Hawaii
Hawaiʻi's all-time career yardage leader with 5,461 all-purpose yards
Gained 3,031 receiving yards (12.7 avg.) and 29 touchdowns in 44 games
Awarded the Mosi Tatupu Award for best Special Teams Player in 2004

17 Collaros, Zach QB Import 6.00 216 1988-08-27 Cincinnati
Collaros was Cincinnati's starting quarterback for the 2010 season. He led the Big East in passing yards with 2,902 and touchdowns with 26. He was selected as the 2010 First-Team All-Big East quarterback

in two seconds look. Maybe superstars is not the right word, but these guys were stars and crucial players for their teams.
A receiver on Hawai'i during the Timmy Chang era and a Big East QB...those are the definition of fringe players.

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07-16-2013, 01:05 PM
  #94
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MLS vs CFL American TV Viewership

For anyone that likes to claim the MLS as being one of North America's "Major Leagues" but not the CFL take a look at the American TV viewership numbers from Son of the Bronx. The CFL is nearly on par with the MLS in the UNITED STATES! In Canada the ratings gap can be described as larger than the Grand Canyon.

Week of July 1-7 2013
1. MLS – Kansas City at Chicago (live) – ESPN 0.3 331,000
2. CFL – Winnipeg at Montreal (live) – ESPN2 0.2 220,000
3. MLS – Seattle at Vancouver (live) – NBCSN 0.1 173,000

Week of June 24-30 2013
1. MLS – Houston at New York (live) – ESPN2 0.3 393,000
2. CFL – Sask at Edmonton (live) – ESPN2 0.2 347,000
3. MLS – Dallas at Philadelphia (live) – NBCSN 0.1 123,000
4. CFL – Montreal at Winnipeg – NBCSN 0.1 88,000

The most hilarious thing about these numbers is the Saskatchewan-Edmonton game absolutely destroyed the Dallas-Philadelphia game head to head on Saturday June 29th.

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07-16-2013, 01:07 PM
  #95
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I'm actually surprised a complaint about league size came up. Lots of European countries also have small domestic leagues at the top division, it just reflects the country size.

I for one love that I can realistically watch the whole league over 4 days and have a grasp of how everyone is doing.

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07-16-2013, 01:10 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSZ56 View Post
After looking at the responses here I realized that I was wrong, many on this website do NOT bash the CFL, it is actually a small number of people that do so on a fairly regular basis. The part I found funny is the number of Americans that will step up and argue that the CFL is a decent league against the bashers from the Greater Toronto Area.
Yep, I've seen Americans in the Dakotas/Minnesota/Michigan that were more open to asking about the CFL then any Proline wielding Southern Ontarion "football" would be.

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07-16-2013, 01:11 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by MrSZ56 View Post
For anyone that likes to claim the MLS as being one of North America's "Major Leagues" but not the CFL take a look at the American TV viewership numbers from Son of the Bronx. The CFL is nearly on par with the MLS in the UNITED STATES! In Canada the ratings gap can be described as larger than the Grand Canyon.

Week of July 1-7 2013
1. MLS – Kansas City at Chicago (live) – ESPN 0.3 331,000
2. CFL – Winnipeg at Montreal (live) – ESPN2 0.2 220,000
3. MLS – Seattle at Vancouver (live) – NBCSN 0.1 173,000

Week of June 24-30 2013
1. MLS – Houston at New York (live) – ESPN2 0.3 393,000
2. CFL – Sask at Edmonton (live) – ESPN2 0.2 347,000
3. MLS – Dallas at Philadelphia (live) – NBCSN 0.1 123,000
4. CFL – Montreal at Winnipeg – NBCSN 0.1 88,000

The most hilarious thing about these numbers is the Saskatchewan-Edmonton game absolutely destroyed the Dallas-Philadelphia game head to head on Saturday June 29th.

Of course the MLS. Not one person in this thread said anything about how the MLS is. And it is worse.

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Yep, I've seen Americans in the Dakotas/Minnesota/Michigan that were more open to asking about the CFL then any Proline wielding Southern Ontarion "football" would be.
They have a right to like it for what ever reasons. A flip question is why seperates is why someone out west would complain about this and then watch the NHL which is an american league.


Last edited by Melrose Munch: 07-16-2013 at 01:17 PM.
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07-16-2013, 01:14 PM
  #98
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Quebec City would be a great place for a team, football is booming in Quebec (province) but there's seems to be little to no talk of a stadium there or any serious interest. Right now PEPS Stade Exterieur seats 12,500, although can be expanded to 19,500. Little small. Laval currently plays there. All it would take is one motivated owner though, and I think CFL would be great there.
if their long term goal is hosting the Olympics, shouldn't they get busy on building a stadium for the opening ceremonies?

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07-16-2013, 01:17 PM
  #99
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They target the guys who don't fit the NFL "mold". Because it's a different game.

exactly.. how one doesn't see this is beyond me?

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07-16-2013, 01:18 PM
  #100
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if their long term goal is hosting the Olympics, shouldn't they get busy on building a stadium for the opening ceremonies?
They are bidding on Olympics?

Can't say I am too plugged into Quebec City. If they get a stadium there will be CFL team there no problem, IMO, an owner shouldn't be all that hard to find. Even without a stadium Ottawa had several interested owners.

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