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OT: Is the CFL a minor league?

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Old
07-17-2013, 01:03 PM
  #151
Pilky01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
People keep saying the Argos blew it with the universities without providing explanations. As a Winnipegger, could someone explain what happened in Toronto specifically with the universities?
York and U of T recently (like in the last ten years) rebuilt their old stadiums and there was a lot of talk about the Argos partnering with them on something. In the end, nothing got done, the schools built for their own specific needs, MLSE got in bed with the 2007 U-20 FIFA people and got themselves a (practically free) new stadium at the Exhibition Grounds, and the Argos were left holding their **** with nowhere to play and nobody to partner with.

Also, had they paired up with a school, they could have gotten some of that sweet government money that Winnipeg and (I believe) Saskatchewan got.

Now their left all on their own with a landlord who wants them gone, BMO Field who wants nothing to do with them, and schools that have no use for them.

They have been horribly, horribly mismanaged for decades now. For as much as us in Toronto love to hate MLSE, if they owned the Argos I bet they would be doing gangbusters in a new stadium by now.

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Old
07-17-2013, 01:10 PM
  #152
Tramontane Sirocco
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I never really watched the CFL, by time Ottawa lost its 2nd team, the game lost my interest.
Living way down in Southern Ontario (sports don't exist in my city, just churches) football is just another sport I ignore.
I never watched any NFL games because, well who do I cheer for?

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Old
07-17-2013, 01:14 PM
  #153
cutchemist42
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
York and U of T recently (like in the last ten years) rebuilt their old stadiums and there was a lot of talk about the Argos partnering with them on something. In the end, nothing got done, the schools built for their own specific needs, MLSE got in bed with the 2007 U-20 FIFA people and got themselves a (practically free) new stadium at the Exhibition Grounds, and the Argos were left holding their **** with nowhere to play and nobody to partner with.

Also, had they paired up with a school, they could have gotten some of that sweet government money that Winnipeg and (I believe) Saskatchewan got.

Now their left all on their own with a landlord who wants them gone, BMO Field who wants nothing to do with them, and schools that have no use for them.

They have been horribly, horribly mismanaged for decades now. For as much as us in Toronto love to hate MLSE, if they owned the Argos I bet they would be doing gangbusters in a new stadium by now.
The article makes it sound like their lost their main support at UoT. It sounds like York was their own doing, but I wonder who was commish at the time. Cohon I think understands the league better then Wright and would be surprised if he supported free rent at Rogers Centre over a York stadium.

I wonder if Ted Rogers had told the Argos "we are adding natural grass within a decade and want you out", if that would have made the Argos decision extremely easier?

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07-17-2013, 01:27 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Tramontane Sirocco View Post
I never watched any NFL games because, well who do I cheer for?
Your fantasy team

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Old
07-17-2013, 01:29 PM
  #155
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As far as I know there have yet to be any solid plans made for Ontario Place. I think that would be a great spot for a 25K stadium. They could share parking with BMO and Ricoh, and along with the Ampitheatre (the fate of which has yet to be decided), the annual Indy race(s), the CNE, etc... would only add to what has become a great cluster of public venues.



This was MGM's absurd proposal for a casino redevelopment of the Exhibition/Ontario Place grounds.



Scrap all that nonsense and just stick a big blue 25K stadium right next to BMO and you have one pretty Canadian cluster of stadiums. Where else are you going to see a pro soccer stadium, right next to a pro football stadium, right next to a pro hockey arena?

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07-17-2013, 01:50 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by colchar View Post
Yes, I prefer to support the local product.




No, they watch the NFL because they are football fans and prefer it to the CFL (I don't get why they can't just watch both).
Why does everyone have to support some because its Canadian?. That's ridiculous. And why do they have to watch both? Do you watch the KHL? Most people who watch the NFL are gamblers. In both countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
Yep.

Though by the sounds of it, once the Blue Jays get the Argos kicked out, they probably won't want any football played there at all (though maybe once or twice a decade for a Grey Cup wouldn't be too bad for the grass).

The Argos only have only themselves to blame for not teaming up with any of the Toronto schools.



Disagree. Obvious Leafs jokes aside, Toronto supports (or more accurately, supported) Toronto FC despite the fact that they have been the worst team in a third rate league for their entire existence.

The Argos' problem is not the quality of the league they play in. It is the quality of the game day experience. They're a second rate tenant in a building that doesn't suit them one bit.



Oh very clever.
No it's true. TFC only got support because they were new, there are empty seats at games now. Toronto wants a big show. Some feel that's a problem.

@Pilky01. Surprised. Would have guessed you an NFL fan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tramontane Sirocco View Post
I never really watched the CFL, by time Ottawa lost its 2nd team, the game lost my interest.
Living way down in Southern Ontario (sports don't exist in my city, just churches) football is just another sport I ignore.
I never watched any NFL games because, well who do I cheer for?

Pick a team. You picked the nords right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
The article makes it sound like their lost their main support at UoT. It sounds like York was their own doing, but I wonder who was commish at the time. Cohon I think understands the league better then Wright and would be surprised if he supported free rent at Rogers Centre over a York stadium.

I wonder if Ted Rogers had told the Argos "we are adding natural grass within a decade and want you out", if that would have made the Argos decision extremely easier?
Really it comes down to Braley not doing anything. If he wanted a new stadium there would be one.

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07-17-2013, 01:52 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
So folks, any thoughts as they relate to the original question?
The OP was to rip T-dot.

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07-17-2013, 01:55 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
The article makes it sound like their lost their main support at UoT.
Indeed. And had a friends of Landsdowne happen that had teeth, plus a mayor that loved soccer and there goes their two options. I wonder if Ford was in office if you'd see BMO stadium be multitennant now (I mean it probably could if they wanted, being the things owned by the city but that's another story)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
As far as I know there have yet to be any solid plans made for Ontario Place. I think that would be a great spot for a 25K stadium. They could share parking with BMO and Ricoh, and along with the Ampitheatre (the fate of which has yet to be decided), the annual Indy race(s), the CNE, etc... would only add to what has become a great cluster of public venues.



Scrap all that nonsense and just stick a big blue 25K stadium right next to BMO and you have one pretty Canadian cluster of stadiums. Where else are you going to see a pro soccer stadium, right next to a pro football stadium, right next to a pro hockey arena?
While I feel the amphitheatre is pretty decent for concerts (just got back from there last week from the Mayhem deal, it was a great sound at that place) that location is ideal for a stadium. Although you'd think just having one high end 40k stadium instead of two 20k's would make more sense (and take up less space), but that ship has sailed I suppose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Really it comes down to Braley not doing anything. If he wanted a new stadium there would be one.
The million dollar question is where?

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07-17-2013, 01:57 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by canadiancreed View Post
Indeed. And had a friends of Landsdowne happen that had teeth, plus a mayor that loved soccer and there goes their two options. I wonder if Ford was in office if you'd see BMO stadium be multitennant now (I mean it probably could if they wanted, being the things owned by the city but that's another story)



While I feel the amphitheatre is pretty decent for concerts (just got back from there last week from the Mayhem deal, it was a great sound at that place) that location is ideal for a stadium. Although you'd think just having one high end 40k stadium instead of two 20k's would make more sense (and take up less space), but that ship has sailed I suppose.
The Fords wanted an NFL stadium down there. Dead Serious. And a Ferris wheel.

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07-17-2013, 02:00 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadiancreed View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadiancreed View Post


The million dollar question is where?

Truth? Ford is an NFL fan and his brother made some stupid comments about the New Orleans Saints. If a new stadium was to be built, it would be in Mississauga or Vaughan. Horrible Idea, but right now the city does not seem interested in building for the Argos. I also believe the Fords are not the only NFL fans on council.

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07-17-2013, 02:03 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
The Fords wanted an NFL stadium down there. Dead Serious. And a Ferris wheel.
And a monorail and a Wal-Mart.

Also, I am a big NFL fan as well. Longer than I have been a CFL fan. I am a recent convert.

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07-17-2013, 03:13 PM
  #162
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Markham should build a stadium for the Argos instead.

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07-17-2013, 04:08 PM
  #163
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SOmehow that doesn't surprise me. Between Ford and Miller the Argos seem to have pretty lousy luck with support from their own city government. Wonder if any other team has had such....unaccommodating governments to work with?

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07-17-2013, 05:05 PM
  #164
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I really don't see the Argos current stadium situation as being the fault of politocs (particularly not municipal politicians). I chalk it up mainly to an utter vacuum of leadership for the organization. They have simpy never been willing to make a decision. There has never been any real leadership, thus a decision/commitment never gets made (University partner, pan am games, etc..).

I can't see where they can go now. If they can't get in on the Ontario Place redevelopment they're gong to forced to moved to the 407.

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07-17-2013, 06:19 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadiancreed View Post
Indeed. And had a friends of Landsdowne happen that had teeth, plus a mayor that loved soccer and there goes their two options. I wonder if Ford was in office if you'd see BMO stadium be multitennant now (I mean it probably could if they wanted, being the things owned by the city but that's another story)
Doubtful.

The initial motion for BMO Field was for soccer stadium capable of hosting football and Ford voted against it anyways.

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07-17-2013, 07:06 PM
  #166
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I liked the Nords and like Quebec City (and the province as a whole) there's more of a story that goes back to grade school but its boring
I've never been to the US so picking a random city and cheering for it is... weird...

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07-17-2013, 07:42 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by wunderpanda View Post
Not sure if you can really say CFL is a step down talent wise across the board, sure some positions its true, but CFL needs different types of players. Larger field, fewer downs, kickers actually make a difference, agility is rewarded more, where the NFL is more brute force and larger, clunkier bodies.

The KHL analogy fits very well, just because the KHL players don't play meathead hockey doesn't mean they aren't just as talented as NHL players.
The CFL will get some niche talent that excels in the CFL format. Sure the NFL size does matter. It doesnt mean to dismiss talent that is shorter, but for some positions if they ar too short they basically have no chance outside of a rare case.

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Old
07-17-2013, 07:45 PM
  #168
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So why not just fold or move the Argos (assuming that they can find an owner for them elsewhere)? Having two teams owned by the same person is just embarrassing.

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07-17-2013, 10:22 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
Obviously QC, we get more then 15 thousand people to every single Rouge et Or college Football game, and have the ''Stade Telus'' that could be made a little bigger. We were even said to be a possible landing spot for Hamilton if they relocated.

But whatever, the CFL will most likely ignore us like every single sports league in existance (other then Can-Am baseball and the CHL) and go to...like Moncton.
The only problem with Quebec is that most people only care about the NFL and CIS Football and in November when it's rainy and cold the R&O sometimes have less than 9000 fans in the stands. I bet that if Quebec City had a 50-60K stadium somewhere and had a New England Patriots exhibition game, it would sellout in minutes, but for a CFL game featuring the Als it would take until game day to sell 25000 tickets.

Also we don't have a suitable stadium. The Laval University didn't want to upgrade the Telus stadium for CFL standard because they didn't want a CFL team to compete directly against the Rouge et Or and Harper didn't want to fund such upgrade, so they went for a lower scale upgrade. Currently the Telus Stadium only has 12000 seats with 7000 standing room places.

It would have to be a brand new stadium with 25000 seats built elsewhere, such as near ExpoCité (and the two hockey arenas).

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07-17-2013, 10:23 PM
  #170
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So why not just fold or move the Argos (assuming that they can find an owner for them elsewhere)? Having two teams owned by the same person is just embarrassing.
Because despite the decades worth of apathy about the Argo's in Toronto by the market itself, the CFL feel's that if they pull out of there they'll see advertising & sponsorship dollars evaporate, broadcast revenues shrink, and to some extent their right about that. So they just dig in, thinking, hoping & praying that its gonna get better, year after year, decade after decade.

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Old
07-18-2013, 01:19 AM
  #171
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Any league with roster limitations due to a player's nationality is a scrub league imo.

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07-18-2013, 02:35 AM
  #172
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Sure the CFL is a minor-league talent-wise but who cares? They put an entertaining product on the field (more entertaining than the NFL in my opinion) and that's really all I care about where football's concerned.

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07-18-2013, 08:08 AM
  #173
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Little off topic but the CFL would probably not be seen as so amateur if the executives didn't make it LOOK so amateur. An NFL field, much like a baseball field has a very clean look, just the yardage, the team's logo at centrefield and in the endzones. A CFL field on the other hand looks like every corporate tower in downtown Toronto went on a bender together, leaned over into the dome and puked all over it. Watching a CFL game the announcers might as well say "Ricky Ray takes the snap at Scotia Bank, looks down field, COMPLETE at the Subway Eat Fresh! First and Tim Hortons!"


Last edited by Jatt: 07-18-2013 at 09:45 AM.
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07-18-2013, 09:52 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Grand Volcan View Post
Any league with roster limitations due to a player's nationality is a scrub league imo.
CHL, KHL, SEL, SM-Liiga, National-A

ALL scrub leagues hey??

Some people need to get off their high horse.

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07-18-2013, 09:57 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by DrillingForOil View Post
CHL, KHL, SEL, SM-Liiga, National-A

ALL scrub leagues hey??

Some people need to get off their high horse.
Let's not also bring up the BPL or other European leagues.....

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