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NYI/Buffalo (Vanek)

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Old
07-16-2013, 06:11 PM
  #76
DJN21
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Originally Posted by Riseonfire View Post
Myers has struggled recently so i'd be hesitant to trade Strome for him.
Erhoff? lol
Grigorenko? Strome and him are just about even prospects so there's no point.
Vanek? We can't afford to give him a new contract
Miller? Again, we can't afford to give him a new contract plus he's up there in age.

It's not so much about blind value for value, its about how any of those players fit in with the Islanders LONG TERM when compared to Strome who also has been training with JT in the offseason since being drafted.
I think you left out the Sabres most attractive roster player in Cody Hodgson a young center already proving capable of top line duties and scoring at a 58 point clip last year at the age of 23 with previously only 90ish games played at the NHL level.

And just because FANS have soured on Myers does not mean that GM's around the league wouldnt salivate at the chance to add Myers to their team.

not saying either is worth Strome but I personally wouldnt trade either for Strome...

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07-16-2013, 06:27 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Somewhere on hf, is a comment from a recent Streit article, saying Snow has a salary structure and won't bust it.

After seeing players who at one point lobbied to stay, PAP and Streit, why would fans think 1. Wang would greenlight a $7m addition and 2. Vanek would take a serious paycut to stay.

It is not like the isles are likely to be a cap ceiling team or Vanek won't draw plenty of interest as a ufa.
because the isles are winning the cup this year and all those extra post season games will lead to wang opening his wallet even more, isnt it obvious?

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07-16-2013, 06:28 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
I think you left out the Sabres most attractive roster player in Cody Hodgson a young center already proving capable of top line duties and scoring at a 58 point clip last year at the age of 23 with previously only 90ish games played at the NHL level.

And just because FANS have soured on Myers does not mean that GM's around the league wouldnt salivate at the chance to add Myers to their team.

not saying either is worth Strome but I personally wouldnt trade either for Strome...
So can we close this thread up then? It seems like every Buff proposal asks for Strome for rentals, we say no, Buff fans get upset, thread goes no where, Isles point out we don't want rentals, blah blah blah

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07-16-2013, 06:32 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Winning 1-2 rounds and watching him walk as a ufa.

Woohoo. Plan the parade route.

Snow and a few of his players, have discussed building a team that is a serious SC contender for several yrs. Sabre fans in this thread are shopping Vanek to the wrong team.
you do realize that after winning 1 round you are one of 8 teams that could potentially win a cup... and after 2 rounds, you are one of 4 teams

i didn't say anything about how many rounds you'd win, only that 1 round would be guaranteed.

interesting viewpoint though... especially from a fan base that just experienced a high 1st turning into a checking forward in trade.

1st round picks

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07-16-2013, 06:35 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Rumor has it that Moulson + 1st for HDTV is a standing offer from the Island. Based on nothing but Buffalo fan intuition, I think Regier is holding out for Czikas or something.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/boards/thr...=108351&page=4 (poster also broke the Tallinder deal)

Vanek staying in LI has everything to do with whether Wang would pay him. TV and JT would have absurd chemistry around the net, and Tavares would be the best player Vanek has, and possibly would, ever play with.
Some of HF Sabre fans may recall a few summers ago, when a hockeybuzz Sabre blogger, wrote about the impending Streit for Tallinder+Lydman trade.

Streit was coming off a strong season and Tallinder+Lydman were 48 hrs from becoming ufas.

Any source with some credibility?
You know there's more than one person who covers Buffalo for that site, right? Garth is garbage, but the person talking about the deal is the one who broke the news that Tallinder was coming back to town.

Also, it makes complete sense as a standing, lowball offer between the two clubs. Regier isn't going to take a streaky goal scorer whose game has limited dimensions and a mid-first back for Vanek, Snow is only going to offer generally expendable parts.

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07-16-2013, 06:37 PM
  #81
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It's quite sad when one of two major sporting websites cant get their facts right.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm...sGoalsFor&type
Actually they're both right?

The NHL report summed the final score of each Isles game, thus they had 139 goals, BUT 4 of those "goals" were from SO wins

ESPN just tallied goals scored by Isles players over the course of the season, which was 135

Isles "official" 139 goals was 8th
Isles "actual" 135 goals was 7th

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07-16-2013, 06:39 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
you do realize that after winning 1 round you are one of 8 teams that could potentially win a cup... and after 2 rounds, you are one of 4 teams

i didn't say anything about how many rounds you'd win, only that 1 round would be guaranteed.

interesting viewpoint though... especially from a fan base that just experienced a high 1st turning into a checking forward in trade.

1st round picks
Shhh Nino is untouchable. The Islanders are still very high on him after a great year in the AHL. At least that's what they kept telling me anytime I mentioned him possibly getting moved.

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07-16-2013, 06:48 PM
  #83
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because the isles are winning the cup this year and all those extra post season games will lead to wang opening his wallet even more, isnt it obvious?
. I wish Wang was opening his checkbook.

With Boyes leaving and an open spot on Tavares rw, we had the press tell us Snow inquired about Vinnie LeCavalar, but back off because of the salary and term(5 yrs/$4.5m per).

With young impact players like Ryan ($5m+) and Seguin ($6m) available, Snow was not even in the mix, adding Bouchard/CC/Regin for a combined $5.5m.

I am hopeful that in two yrs, with the Brooklyn move, Wang will be at least a middle of the cap team.

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07-16-2013, 06:59 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
you do realize that after winning 1 round you are one of 8 teams that could potentially win a cup... and after 2 rounds, you are one of 4 teams

i didn't say anything about how many rounds you'd win, only that 1 round would be guaranteed.

interesting viewpoint though... especially from a fan base that just experienced a high 1st turning into a checking forward in trade.

1st round picks
My viewpoint is that I want a team that is a serious cup contender for several yrs.Not a team that gambles on a cinderella run.
Isles move young talent for a 20 something upgrade? That makes sense. Move young talent for a one yr rental? Nah

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07-16-2013, 07:12 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
You know there's more than one person who covers Buffalo for that site, right? Garth is garbage, but the person talking about the deal is the one who broke the news that Tallinder was coming back to town.

Also, it makes complete sense ats a standing, lowball offer between the two clubs. Regier isn't going to take a streaky goal scorer whose game has limited dimensions and a mid-first back for Vanek, Snow is only going to offer generally expendable parts.
The isles Newsday beatwriter, told fans in March and April fanchats that DiPietro would be bought out.

A month before Streit and Snow said Streit was leaving, Staple told fans he would not be back. Staple is very credible.

He has been asked about Vanek+Miller and been saying since March, that the isles won't get either because they don't want to give up the young talent and they don't want to pay the high salaries on their extensions.

It is not just Vanek/Miller. Isles had interest in Prince Vince until finding out his salary demands.

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07-16-2013, 07:19 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
My viewpoint is that I want a team that is a serious cup contender for several yrs.Not a team that gambles on a cinderella run.
Isles move young talent for a 20 something upgrade? That makes sense. Move young talent for a one yr rental? Nah
i don't think trading a mid 1st and a B prospect prevents anything you want in the future... contending for several years requires many moves of this sort along the way...



While my "guarantees" are completely ludicrous... I think turning down the trade accepting those guarantees is just stupid.

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07-16-2013, 07:40 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
He has been asked about Vanek+Miller and been saying since March, that the isles won't get either because they don't want to give up the young talent and they don't want to pay the high salaries on their extensions.
These things aren't mutually exclusive, you know.

They probably heard what Regier was asking for Vanek and said, if you come down to Moulson + 1st, we'll talk. Which is entirely coherent with both what your beat writer and I have been saying.

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07-16-2013, 07:48 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
These things aren't mutually exclusive, you know.

They probably heard what Regier was asking for Vanek and said, if you come down to Moulson + 1st, we'll talk. Which is entirely coherent with both what your beat writer and I have been saying.
I can't see Buffalo wanting to trade Vanek for another UFA

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07-16-2013, 07:52 PM
  #89
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That's been my point this whole thread. That's what "standing offer" means. Snow is buying low, and leaving it out there in case by some freaking miracle it happens to be the best offer Regier gets for a player he's almost certainly resigned to trade.

It perfectly illustrates why, unless something incredibly drastic happens, these teams don't make good trading partners, especially for Vanek/Miller.

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07-16-2013, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
i don't think trading a mid 1st and a B prospect prevents anything you want in the future... contending for several years requires many moves of this sort along the way...


G
While my "guarantees" are completely ludicrous... I think turning down the trade accepting those guarantees is just stupid.
Isles are two yrs away from their Brooklyn move and nothing they have done this summer, indicates Wang has opened his checkbook.

Fans brush aside first rounders in this thread like they are nothing. Isles took Pulock 15th overall and it is debatable whether he or Reinhart are the team's #1 blueline prospect.

In the summer of 2015, they will be heading to Brooklyn. That is when I would expect to see one top prospect+ 1st + nhl player packaged.
Your suggestion that Snow a move a solid prospect + a 1st for a one yr rental, is shortsighted, very foolish move.

Isles have serious question marks about how well De Haan/Donovan will do replacing Streit, about whether Poulin can play consistently enough in 25 games and lighten Nabby's workload.

They are not an experienced team, one player away from serious cup contention.

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07-16-2013, 08:04 PM
  #91
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These things aren't mutually exclusive, you know.

They probably heard what Regier was asking for Vanek and said, if you come down to Moulson + 1st, we'll talk. Which is entirely coherent with both what your beat writer and I have been saying.
What has changed since the March/April fanchats?

Vanek is still a $7m per player.
Vanek is still a ufa in 2014.
Wang's checkbook is still closed imo, based on not even making a bid for talents like Ryan/Seguin.Choosing to sign the cheaper Bouchard (1 yr/$2m).

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07-16-2013, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
What has changed since the March/April fanchats?

Vanek is still a $7m per player.
Vanek is still a ufa in 2014.
Wang's checkbook is still closed imo, based on not even making a bid for talents like Ryan/Seguin.Choosing to sign the cheaper Bouchard (1 yr/$2m).
I don't think it was the cost in terms of money, I just don't think they wanted to give up the young talent they'd need to give up to get them...

That being said, I'm personally not a fan of renting players, especially at this point for the Isles. They aren't on the brink of winning a SC, so why give up potentially good futures? In the coming years MAYBE, but given the Isles offense now and their projected offense in the coming years, I'd be more apt to trade for defensemen over forwards

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07-16-2013, 08:48 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Isles are two yrs away from their Brooklyn move and nothing they have done this summer, indicates Wang has opened his checkbook.

Fans brush aside first rounders in this thread like they are nothing. Isles took Pulock 15th overall and it is debatable whether he or Reinhart are the team's #1 blueline prospect.

In the summer of 2015, they will be heading to Brooklyn. That is when I would expect to see one top prospect+ 1st + nhl player packaged.
Your suggestion that Snow a move a solid prospect + a 1st for a one yr rental, is shortsighted, very foolish move.

Isles have serious question marks about how well De Haan/Donovan will do replacing Streit, about whether Poulin can play consistently enough in 25 games and lighten Nabby's workload.

They are not an experienced team, one player away from serious cup contention.
you're having trouble differentiating between your view of where the franchise is headed and the hypothetical I proposed, and in turn have returned to rehashing the same points you've already made.

trading a mid-late 1st for a guaranteed ticket into the 2nd round is a no brainer

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07-16-2013, 08:56 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
you're having trouble differentiating between your view of where the franchise is headed and the hypothetical I proposed, and in turn have returned to rehashing the same points you've already made.

trading a mid-late 1st for a guaranteed ticket into the 2nd round is a no brainer

A guaranteed Stanley Cup? Sure, but nothing is guaranteed... The Isles were guaranteed to be a cakewalk for the Penguins, but the Pens were lucky to make it out of that series... In my honest opinion getting into the second round isn't worth it in the Isles situation. I'd rather keep the pick, roll the dice and see where our team, that already almost made the second round of the playoffs, goes by itself. Keep adding to an already strong prospect pool while competing in the playoffs every year. That seems like its a winning combination to me

Edit: That being said, if you can pull off a sign and trade where either/or Vanek/Miller is signed to a reasonable mid-long term deal I'd be more than happy to give a first ++ for them... Not Strome level, but maybe two firsts and one or two prospects like Kabanov and Ullstrom or something... Can't say I'm keenly aware of Buffalo's organizational needs

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07-16-2013, 09:03 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
you're having trouble differentiating between your view of where the franchise is headed and the hypothetical I proposed, and in turn have returned to rehashing the same points you've already made.

trading a mid-late 1st for a guaranteed ticket into the 2nd round is a no brainer
I got your point that trading a first for a rental, does not mean the isles can't make other moves as they get closer to their Brooklyn move.

Did you get my point that it makes more sense to package that 1st, long with 1-2 other trade chips and get a 20 something player, who will be under team control for several yrs.

You make a pretty big assumption, that the isles cannot make the playoffs and advance past the first round without Vanek.

Goal scoring was not a problem for the isles last season and it is not expected to be a problem next season. Isles have question marks about De Haan/Donovan/Poulin, their #4-#6 defensemen and backup goalie.


Last edited by CREW99AW: 07-16-2013 at 09:08 PM.
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07-16-2013, 09:06 PM
  #96
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I think Vanek to NYI as a trade makes sense, based on both teams' needs.

I also think that it would've happened already, so probably won't.

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07-16-2013, 09:11 PM
  #97
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I think Vanek to NYI as a trade makes sense, based on both teams' needs.

I also think that it would've happened already, so probably won't.
Yeah.
Just because the isles could not keep Vanek and his $7m salary beyond one season, is a minor detail.

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07-16-2013, 09:16 PM
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Yeah.
Just because the isles could not keep Vanek and his $7m salary beyond one season, is a minor detail.
You're making an assumption. You could certainly keep him longer than one season.

Regardless, Vanek to Islanders isn't happening. Vanek is looking like a deadline deal at this point anyways.

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07-16-2013, 09:22 PM
  #99
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Forget the Isles as they are hopeless and broke. Vancouver or some other team that has money and a real shot at the cup will come calling at the deadline with a good deal IMO.

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07-16-2013, 09:24 PM
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Forget the Isles as they are hopeless and broke. Vancouver or some other team that has money and a real shot at the cup will come calling at the deadline with a good deal IMO.
well the isles have won more playoff games in the last 2 years then the canucks have

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