HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

NYI/Buffalo (Vanek)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-16-2013, 09:27 PM
  #101
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 28,913
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DYaeger89 View Post
You're making an assumption. You could certainly keep him longer than one season.

Regardless, Vanek to Islanders isn't happening. Vanek is looking like a deadline deal at this point anyways.
With an opening on Tavares rw and Ryan, Lecavalar, Erickson and Seguin available, the cap floor isles bought in Bouchard (1 yr/$2m).

There is a Streit Newsday article from 3-4 weeks ago, where the Newsday beatwriter explains Snow has a salary structure and won't bust it.

So, no I don't agree that the isles could certainly keep Vanek and his high salary beyond one yr.
I do agree after reading Regier's comments from several days ago, thay Vanek will likely be moved at the trade deadline.

CREW99AW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2013, 09:27 PM
  #102
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,417
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I got your point that trading a first for a rental, does not mean the isles can't make other moves as they get closer to their Brooklyn move.
good

Quote:
Did you get my point that it makes more sense to package that 1st, long with 1-2 other trade chips and get a 20 something player, who will be under team control for several yrs.
sure, in a world of limitless hypotheticals

What we know is that Vanek is available, 20 somethings move less frequently, and when they do they come with big salaries and at high cost... weren't you saying something about costs?

Quote:
You make a pretty big assumption, that the isles cannot make the playoffs and advance past the first round without Vanek.
i made no such assumption

Quote:
Goal scoring was not a problem for the isles last season and it is not expected to be a problem next season.
i know

Quote:
Isles have question marks about De Haan/Donovan/Poulin, their #4-#6 defensemen and backup goalie.
i know

still, HF future value is at play here. a 1st for a guaranteed ticket to the 2nd round is a no brainer. 1 of 8 teams competing for a stanley cup, or a mid-late first rounder with a 30% chance of being a decent NHLer...

:

im not so much interested in vanek/isles... more the craziness that is implied by a fan that would prefer a lotto ticket to genuine chance at a cup. you seem to be too married to "the plan" to see past it.

Jame is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2013, 09:28 PM
  #103
Devereau
Registered User
 
Devereau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 218
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
well the isles have won more playoff games in the last 2 years then the canucks have
Well the Canucks were just in the cup a few years back.

Devereau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2013, 09:31 PM
  #104
RSeen
Registered User
 
RSeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,733
vCash: 500
Buff fans who say no to this are going to be very disappointed with the return for Vanek LOL. This is more than fair.

RSeen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2013, 09:33 PM
  #105
Riseonfire
R+L=J
 
Riseonfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,646
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post

still, HF future value is at play here. a 1st for a guaranteed ticket to the 2nd round is a no brainer. 1 of 8 teams competing for a stanley cup, or a mid-late first rounder with a 30% chance of being a decent NHLer...

:
I'm sorry, but what is this guaranteed ******** you keep talking about? The Penguins were practically guaranteed a trip to the finals this year with their acquisitions. How did that work out for them?

You talk about 'HF future value' and shaking your head, but then talk as if Vanek assures the Islanders of anything.

Riseonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2013, 09:41 PM
  #106
12Dog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 388
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pigpen65 View Post
No. Okposo for Vanek is silly, with or without a first rounder. Pominville got a 1st rounder plus two legit prospects. Isles and Sabres are in pretty similar situations, so they don't make sense as trading partners for Vanek. Vanek is going to want to go to a contender and only a contender with a good shot at resigning him will be willing to give up anything good for him. Jersey seems pretty perfect.
New Jersey is a contender? For what?

12Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2013, 09:41 PM
  #107
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 28,913
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post


What we know is that Vanek is available, 20 somethings move less frequently, and when they do they come with big salaries and at high cost... weren't you saying something about costs?


still, HF future value is at play here. a 1st for a guaranteed ticket to the 2nd round is a no brainer. 1 of 8 teams competing for a stanley cup, or a mid-late first rounder with a 30% chance of being a decent NHLer...

im not so much interested in vanek/isles... more the craziness that is implied by a fan that would prefer a lotto ticket to genuine chance at a cup.
You keep posting about a cup.Are the isles with their question marks on defense and in goal, supposed to be a serious cup contender, by adding a star winger?



Wang has a NY Times article from about two weeks ago. His team has two yrs on their current lease. He indicated in the article, that they will start spending when they move. Until then it sounds like they will continue their conservative approach.

CREW99AW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2013, 09:42 PM
  #108
Devereau
Registered User
 
Devereau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 218
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSeen View Post
Buff fans who say no to this are going to be very disappointed with the return for Vanek LOL. This is more than fair.
It's possible we do better at the deadline but Okposo and a first wouldn't be Terrible I guess. Buff may want to do a sign and trade to maximize the return? Personally I want to keep Vanek.

Devereau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2013, 09:47 PM
  #109
Noreaster96
Registered User
 
Noreaster96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,317
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devereau View Post
Forget the Isles as they are hopeless and broke. Vancouver or some other team that has money and a real shot at the cup will come calling at the deadline with a good deal IMO.
Yeah, the islanders are really hopeless... Young, talented, great prospect pool, plenty of cap space (should they decide to use it)... We're doomed!

Noreaster96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2013, 09:51 PM
  #110
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,417
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
You keep posting about a cup.Are the isles with their question marks on defense and in goal, supposed to be a serious cup contender, by adding a star winger?
win a round, and you legitimately have good chance.

If you beat Pitt last year, the East legitimately could've been Tor, NYR, Ott, Isles.... how do you feel about making the cup finals in that scenario?

again, a 1st for a ticket into the 2nd, is a 1st for a legitimate chance... a chance... that's all. i understand wanting to continue the path to building a foundational contender... i dont think trading a pick + prevents you from continuing down that path... but you take the right chances along the way...


Quote:
Wang has a NY Times article from about two weeks ago. His team has two yrs on their current lease. He indicated in the article, that they will start spending when they move. Until then it sounds like they will continue their conservative approach.
i agree. im not proposing something within that context. im proposing in within a fans context with a completely ridiculous hypothetical guarantee... the purpose of which is to gauge how ridiculous individuals value the unknown vs the known

Jame is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2013, 09:51 PM
  #111
startainfection
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 6,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devereau View Post
Well the Canucks were just in the cup a few years back.
still would say the isles have a significantly better chance at winning a cup within the next 5 yeas then the canucks do, have fun watching the sedins get benched for not blocking 20 shots a game now with their new coach

startainfection is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2013, 09:53 PM
  #112
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,417
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riseonfire View Post
I'm sorry, but what is this guaranteed ******** you keep talking about? The Penguins were practically guaranteed a trip to the finals this year with their acquisitions. How did that work out for them?

You talk about 'HF future value' and shaking your head, but then talk as if Vanek assures the Islanders of anything.
it's called a hypothetical, it's used to gauge how a person values certain things.

Jame is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2013, 09:56 PM
  #113
Riseonfire
R+L=J
 
Riseonfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,646
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
it's called a hypothetical, it's used to gauge how a person values certain things.
Except it doesn't help us value anything because it's just not that simple. I understand what your saying, it just doesn't apply here.

Riseonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2013, 10:04 PM
  #114
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 33,417
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riseonfire View Post
Except it doesn't help us value anything because it's just not that simple. I understand what your saying, it just doesn't apply here.
there are 2 people having a conversation about it's application... so...

Jame is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2013, 10:04 PM
  #115
Devereau
Registered User
 
Devereau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 218
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
still would say the isles have a significantly better chance at winning a cup within the next 5 yeas then the canucks do, have fun watching the sedins get benched for not blocking 20 shots a game now with their new coach
Well like u said the Isles don't have the cash flow and the Nucks and many others do. I know the feeling of not having the cash flow and it sucks but we finally got an owner who is loaded and will spend. Now we need someone who can put a team together.

Devereau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2013, 10:34 PM
  #116
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 28,913
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devereau View Post
Well like u said the Isles don't have the cash flow and the Nucks and many others do. I know the feeling of not having the cash flow and it sucks but we finally got an owner who is loaded and will spend. Now we need someone who can put a team together.
And the cap floor nyi, with their deep prospect pool, move to a new arena with a much stronger lease, after another two seasons.

So both fanbases have something to look forward to.

CREW99AW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 12:36 AM
  #117
Riseonfire
R+L=J
 
Riseonfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,646
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
there are 2 people having a conversation about it's application... so...
All of it meaningless because Vanek guarantees the Islanders of nothing. Go and converse all you want about the value of making it to the 2nd round and seeing how it goes from there. But as far as a trade goes and Vanek's value relative to the Islanders, your hypothetical means nothing because a GM wouldn't make a trade bases on hypothetical value... so we're back to it all being ********.

Short response: It's a pointless and fruitless conversation.

Riseonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 12:56 AM
  #118
KJS14
Registered User
 
KJS14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 690
vCash: 500
Islanders shouldn't even think about going after Vanek - not worth it in the long run.

And I keep hearing Vanek is a top 5 winger.. Since when is a 65-75 point winger top 5?

I'd take Ovechkin, J. Neal, D. Sedin, Kessel, Hossa, Eberle, T. Hall, St. Louis, Eriksson, Parise, P. Kane, Nash and Voracek over him every day of the week. And I'm probably forgetting a few. And Vanek doesn't step it up in the playoffs either.

KJS14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 01:22 AM
  #119
DJN21
Registered User
 
DJN21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rochester
Posts: 1,789
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJS14 View Post
Islanders shouldn't even think about going after Vanek - not worth it in the long run.

And I keep hearing Vanek is a top 5 winger.. Since when is a 65-75 point winger top 5?

I'd take Ovechkin, J. Neal, D. Sedin, Kessel, Hossa, Eberle, T. Hall, St. Louis, Eriksson, Parise, P. Kane, Nash and Voracek over him every day of the week. And I'm probably forgetting a few. And Vanek doesn't step it up in the playoffs either.
you're mis-informed and that's okay its a common occurrence on these message boards. Go find stats on wingers better than Vanek since the last lockout and definitely throw TIO totals with it and show me why Vanek isn't in conversation with them. Vanek is by far and away the best player on the market be it center winger...idc...if Clarkson got what he did and Poms got what he did on open market...until then...cheers I wont go as far to insult fan-bases.

again as I previously said the Isles are a 1st round and out team currently. Your future looks great and thats all well and dandy but you dont have a winger even near Vanek's ability WETHER YOU WANT HIM OR NOT. IN THAT SAME REGARD IF YOU HAVE NO INTEREST PLEASE DON'T SELL HIM SHORT LIKES HES CHUMP-CHANGE...HE'D BECOME BY AND LARGE THE 2ND BEST PLAYER ON YOUR TEAM...

DJN21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 01:32 AM
  #120
Riseonfire
R+L=J
 
Riseonfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,646
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
you're mis-informed and that's okay its a common occurrence on these message boards. Go find stats on wingers better than Vanek since the last lockout and definitely throw TIO totals with it and show me why Vanek isn't in conversation with them. Vanek is by far and away the best player on the market be it center winger...idc...if Clarkson got what he did and Poms got what he did on open market...until then...cheers I wont go as far to insult fan-bases.

again as I previously said the Isles are a 1st round and out team currently. Your future looks great and thats all well and dandy but you dont have a winger even near Vanek's ability WETHER YOU WANT HIM OR NOT. IN THAT SAME REGARD IF YOU HAVE NO INTEREST PLEASE DON'T SELL HIM SHORT LIKES HES CHUMP-CHANGE...HE'D BECOME BY AND LARGE THE 2ND BEST PLAYER ON YOUR TEAM...
I agree with the bolded, but the point Islander fans are making is that we seriously doubt we can resign him, therefor he holds little value to us. We are not in the position to be buying rentals just yet. 4 years from now? Yeah probably, but not yet. So when Islander fans are saying 'I wouldn't give up a 1st and Moulson for him' It's not a shot a Vanek, it's just that the deal doesn't make sense even if the 'value' is there.

We're not the only other team in the league. Try and sell him to another team.

Quote:
I'd take Ovechkin, J. Neal, D. Sedin, Kessel, Hossa, Eberle, T. Hall, St. Louis, Eriksson, Parise, P. Kane, Nash and Voracek
FWIW, I'd take any of those wingers except maybe Voracek over Vanek too. (Excluding details like contracts and age)

Riseonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 01:39 AM
  #121
DJN21
Registered User
 
DJN21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rochester
Posts: 1,789
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riseonfire View Post
I agree with the bolded, but the point Islander fans are making is that we seriously doubt we can resign him, therefor he holds little value to us. We are not in the position to be buying rentals just yet. 4 years from now? Yeah probably, but not yet. So when Islander fans are saying 'I wouldn't give up a 1st and Moulson for him' It's not a shot a Vanek, it's just that the deal doesn't make sense even if the 'value' is there.

We're not the only other team in the league. Try and sell him to another team.
Dude I totally get that and maybe we differ based on fan base, but to me personally you guys were one key scorer away from sending PITT packing and maybe competing for a cup...to you fguys one year of contention may not be worth a gamble but to me, real teams get after it and go for the cup...Im not asking for strome or Okposo in fact I see no trade possible here..Im just saying dont insult Sabres fans by selling Vanek short or like I said previously saying no Sabre player is worth Strome. Thats my only bone to pick. You guys will compete with or without Vanek trade or not. Will you win the cup? NO-but Im not stupid enough to say you should sell your team for vanek...

DJN21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 01:41 AM
  #122
DJN21
Registered User
 
DJN21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rochester
Posts: 1,789
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riseonfire View Post
I agree with the bolded, but the point Islander fans are making is that we seriously doubt we can resign him, therefor he holds little value to us. We are not in the position to be buying rentals just yet. 4 years from now? Yeah probably, but not yet. So when Islander fans are saying 'I wouldn't give up a 1st and Moulson for him' It's not a shot a Vanek, it's just that the deal doesn't make sense even if the 'value' is there.

We're not the only other team in the league. Try and sell him to another team.



FWIW, I'd take any of those wingers except maybe Voracek over Vanek too. (Excluding details like contracts and age)
that's a huge exclusion...

DJN21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 01:53 AM
  #123
KJS14
Registered User
 
KJS14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
that's a huge exclusion...
That exclusion helps Vanek's case in comparison to all but 3 of the players I mentioned. Vanek averages 68 points per 82 games. That's average production for a first line winger. If by "last lockout" you meant last year, Vanek had a great 15 games or so and then returned to his regular form for the rest of the year. If you meant since 2004, then my arguement stands. All of those wingers are better than Vanek, and if you want to include centers the list would go on for a while.

KJS14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 02:20 AM
  #124
Riseonfire
R+L=J
 
Riseonfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,646
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
Dude I totally get that and maybe we differ based on fan base, but to me personally you guys were one key scorer away from sending PITT packing and maybe competing for a cup...to you fguys one year of contention may not be worth a gamble but to me, real teams get after it and go for the cup...Im not asking for strome or Okposo in fact I see no trade possible here..Im just saying dont insult Sabres fans by selling Vanek short or like I said previously saying no Sabre player is worth Strome. Thats my only bone to pick. You guys will compete with or without Vanek trade or not. Will you win the cup? NO-but Im not stupid enough to say you should sell your team for vanek...
I totally agree, and thats where Washington ****ed up when they wouldn't include Alzner in the deal for Pronger, but the Islanders are simply not there yet. If this was 4 years later and we had another prospect just like Strome coming up, I'd deal him to 'put us over the top' but RIGHT NOW, I wouldn't include Strome for almost anyone on your roster. You might take that as an insult, but it's not meant to be. Organizationally, the Isles and Sabres don't match to make a big trade. Strome is one of the top 5 prospects in all of hockey and is JUST about to make the jump to the bigs. You simply don't trade a player like that unless your team is already stacked. Which we're not.

I understand your point, but the Islanders are simply not at a place where we can gamble yet. Still a lot of questions (mainly in net) to be answered.

Riseonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-17-2013, 04:47 AM
  #125
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 28,913
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
you're mis-informed and that's okay its a common occurrence on these message boards. Go find stats on wingers better than Vanek since the last lockout and definitely throw TIO totals with it and show me why Vanek isn't in conversation with them. Vanek is by far and away tche best player on the market be it center winger...idc...if Clarkson got what he did and Poms got what he did on open market...until then...cheers I wont go as far to insult fan-bases.

again as I previously said the Isles are a 1st round and out team currently. Your future looks great and thats all well and dandy but you dont have a winger even near Vanek's ability WETHER YOU WANT HIM OR NOT. IN THAT SAME REGARD IF YOU HAVE NO INTEREST PLEASE DON'T SELL HIM SHORT LIKES HES CHUMP-CHANGE...HE'D BECOME BY AND LARGE THE 2ND BEST PLAYER ON YOUR TEAM...

Strome: has been Tavares offseason workout partner since before he was drafted. He joined the Sound Tigers for the last 7-8 games of last season and was played on the wing. He is coming to camp with a chance to win the rw spot, next to Tavares.

B. Nelson: from Snow's interviews, it sounds like the isles think he is ready, are penciling the 6'4 Nelson onto their roster in the 3rd line center spot.Isles hope he develops into a second liner, pushing Frans to the 3rd line.

Isles gm told fans to expect more building from within, so no one should be surprised the isles are counting on Strome/Nelson/De Haan/Donovan to compete for 2-3 nyi open spots.

If isles fans accept building from within, with cheap homegrown youngsters, why should opposing fans object? Wang will spend , add higher outside salaries when closer to the stronger Brooklyn lease.

CREW99AW is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:15 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.