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NYI/Buffalo (Vanek)

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Old
07-17-2013, 06:25 AM
  #126
tsujimoto74
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Originally Posted by RSeen View Post
Buff fans who say no to this are going to be very disappointed with the return for Vanek LOL. This is more than fair.
And I think comments like this are gonna look hella dumb when he does get moved. Just like they did with Pominville. Darcy doesn't lose trades. He's certainly not going to start now, when dealing the best forward he's ever drafted. Buffalo won't be getting stuff like Strome+, like some fans seem to be clinging too, but Regier won't trading Vanek for less than Pominville.

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Old
07-17-2013, 07:17 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
you're mis-informed and that's okay its a common occurrence on these message boards. Go find stats on wingers better than Vanek since the last lockout and definitely throw TIO totals with it and show me why Vanek isn't in conversation with them. Vanek is by far and away the best player on the market be it center winger...idc...if Clarkson got what he did and Poms got what he did on open market...until then...cheers I wont go as far to insult fan-bases.

again as I previously said the Isles are a 1st round and out team currently. Your future looks great and thats all well and dandy but you dont have a winger even near Vanek's ability WETHER YOU WANT HIM OR NOT. IN THAT SAME REGARD IF YOU HAVE NO INTEREST PLEASE DON'T SELL HIM SHORT LIKES HES CHUMP-CHANGE...HE'D BECOME BY AND LARGE THE 2ND BEST PLAYER ON YOUR TEAM...
Who is selling him short? I think he's a very good player, but I'm not giving up Strome/Okposo and a 1st round pick for 1 year of Vanek. Not worth it at all.

If he does get traded now, I would think it would be to a team that has a chance to resign him, Isles can't do that which is why this trade doesn't make sense.

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07-17-2013, 07:40 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by KJS14 View Post
Islanders shouldn't even think about going after Vanek - not worth it in the long run.

And I keep hearing Vanek is a top 5 winger.. Since when is a 65-75 point winger top 5?

I'd take Ovechkin, J. Neal, D. Sedin, Kessel, Hossa, Eberle, T. Hall, St. Louis, Eriksson, Parise, P. Kane, Nash and Voracek over him every day of the week. And I'm probably forgetting a few. And Vanek doesn't step it up in the playoffs either.
So you would take Coat-Tail rider James Neal and Mr. High shooting percentage Eberle over Vanek? Voracek has had 1 good season and you would take him over Vanek too?

Nash is severely overrated as well.

The other 9 you could argue. Those are legit top 10 wingers in the game. But Vanek IMO is a top 10 winger and when he is hot is top 5.

Look at the Centers Vanek has played with and explain to me why he isnt deserving of top 10 winger status.

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07-17-2013, 08:14 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by CowbellConray View Post
So you would take Coat-Tail rider James Neal and Mr. High shooting percentage Eberle over Vanek? Voracek has had 1 good season and you would take him over Vanek too?

Nash is severely overrated as well.

The other 9 you could argue. Those are legit top 10 wingers in the game. But Vanek IMO is a top 10 winger and when he is hot is top 5.

Look at the Centers Vanek has played with and explain to me why he isnt deserving of top 10 winger status.
You do realize you just answered your own question, right? In your opinion, Vanek is better than all the rest of those guys. In his opinion, Vanek wouldn't beat the other guys out for a spot on his team.

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07-17-2013, 08:34 AM
  #130
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IMO I think the moral of the story is we'd love to have Vanek on the Isles and he would certainly look great next to Tavares... But really the assets needed to get him would be better suited addressing needs elsewhere based on our goal scoring ability, especially given the UFA status and subsequent contract Vanek will receive... At least thats how I see it...

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07-17-2013, 08:42 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Noreaster96 View Post
IMO I think the moral of the story is we'd love to have Vanek on the Isles and he would certainly look great next to Tavares... But really the assets needed to get him would be better suited addressing needs elsewhere based on our goal scoring ability, especially given the UFA status and subsequent contract Vanek will receive... At least thats how I see it...

This sums it up perfectly

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Old
07-17-2013, 08:55 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
Who is selling him short? I think he's a very good player, but I'm not giving up Strome/Okposo and a 1st round pick for 1 year of Vanek. Not worth it at all.

If he does get traded now, I would think it would be to a team that has a chance to resign him, Isles can't do that which is why this trade doesn't make sense.
There seems to be a misconception about how far along the Isles are in their rebuild. It's still going on and while the Isles do have a deep prospect pool, ALL of the elite assets are penciled into the future lineup and none are expendable. Strome would give the Isles another dynamic offensive player whether it's at center or wing, Nelson would give a big and skilled C/LW, Reinhart and Pulock as top-4 d-men. Mayfield, Pokka, and Pedan were all 2nd/3rd picks who could also be in the mix. The Isles have yet to get ANY contribution from the 2010-2012 draft classes.

Look at what the Isles need and you have the answer by simply looking inside the organization. The prospects have all been developing and being groomed into the roles they are expected to fill at the NHL level. The Isles are no longer rushing these kids anymore and look like they have done a complete 180 and decided to over-ripen them. Strome was a man amongst boys in the prospect camp and he's probably slated for the AHL. Nelson looks like a lock, but he's no guarantee to get a spot either. Only Donovan looks like a lock and he's had 4 years of development time with 2 impressive AHL seasons.

The real question mark is in goal. I'd love Vanek on the Isles, but giving up quality assets for him is more luxury than necessity with the very real risk of another Crying Ryan scenario. I would think the Isles would have far more interest in Miller. With Nabby back, it's clear the Isles still have not given up on Poulin, Nilsson and possibly Koskinen. This is a critical year for how the goaltending shapes up.

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07-17-2013, 09:11 AM
  #133
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Honestly I think it's more likely that Vanek goes to a team like Detroit or SJ. Those teams are full of vets, in SJ's case they have a few players in the last year of their contracts. They're looking to win now, Isles are focused on building a long term contender. It's too early for Garth to dump significant assets for a rental. The time will come eventually, but not yet.

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07-17-2013, 09:22 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by seabass45 View Post
Honestly I think it's more likely that Vanek goes to a team like Detroit or SJ. Those teams are full of vets, in SJ's case they have a few players in the last year of their contracts. They're looking to win now, Isles are focused on building a long term contender. It's too early for Garth to dump significant assets for a rental. The time will come eventually, but not yet.
If we've learned anything of the Snow regime, it's that they take no shortcuts. This rebuild has been painstakingly slow as a result.

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Old
07-17-2013, 09:22 AM
  #135
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Miller + Vanek (Salary retained - not sure the number)
for
Okposo + Reinhart + 1st + 2nd
---
NYI go for it hard!


Future in Buffalo:

Reinhart-Grigorenko-Armia
Ennis-Hodgson-Okposo
Foligno-Girgensons-Bailey (that is a great line)

Myers-Reinhart
Ristoleinen-Ehrhoff
McCabe-Zadarov

Having some fun.

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Old
07-17-2013, 09:30 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
With an opening on Tavares rw and Ryan, Lecavalar, Erickson and Seguin available, the cap floor isles bought in Bouchard (1 yr/$2m).
seriously? Lecavalier went where he wanted...Ryan was traded for the equivalent of Strome, Nelson and a 1st. The ratings of Noesen and Nelson are basically even on most prospect sites.

Eriksson and Seguin were available...in a blockbuster trade for EACH OTHER. Who do the islanders have that would bring back Seguin or Eriksson that you would want to move(i.e., not tavares or hamonic)? Dont give me Okposo and a 1st bc that wouldnt work.

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07-17-2013, 09:35 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
Miller + Vanek (Salary retained - not sure the number)
for
Okposo + Reinhart + 1st + 2nd
---
NYI go for it hard!


Future in Buffalo:

Reinhart-Grigorenko-Armia
Ennis-Hodgson-Okposo
Foligno-Girgensons-Bailey (that is a great line)

Myers-Reinhart
Ristoleinen-Ehrhoff
McCabe-Zadarov

Having some fun.
Value is pretty good, but another D prospect is the last thing I'd be looking for in exchange for those 2. Gaining Reinhart would be superfluous when we just drafted 2 similar and IMO better prospects than him. If we gained another D prospect I would hope that we are on the phones looking for wingers in exchange for someone like McNabb, McCabe, etc.

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07-17-2013, 09:39 AM
  #138
CREW99AW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
Miller + Vanek (Salary retained - not sure the number)
for
Okposo + Reinhart + 1st + 2nd
---
NYI go for it hard!


Future in Buffalo:

Reinhart-Grigorenko-Armia
Ennis-Hodgson-Okposo
Foligno-Girgensons-Bailey (that is a great line)

Myers-Reinhart
Ristoleinen-Ehrhoff
McCabe-Zadarov

Having some fun.
I love when reach the fantasy stage.

Isles trade away a $3m salary and add $13m-$14m, that they cannot keep beyond 2013-2014.

Makes zero sense for the isles, but the Sabres need/ the Sabres want ..lol

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07-17-2013, 09:52 AM
  #139
CREW99AW
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Originally Posted by isles31 View Post
seriously? Lecavalier went where he wanted...Ryan was traded for the equivalent of Strome, Nelson and a 1st. The ratings of Noesen and Nelson are basically even on most prospect sites.

Eriksson and Seguin were available...in a blockbuster trade for EACH OTHER. Who do the islanders have that would bring back Seguin or Eriksson that you would want to move(i.e., not tavares or hamonic)? Dont give me Okposo and a 1st bc that wouldnt work.
How many offseasons, has Snow shoppef his first, reportedly trying to push his rebuild ahead by exchanging that 18 yr old, with a young player that has similar upside and is further along in his development?

How many interviews has Snow tried to deflect criticism of Wang's spending?

Snow shopped Nino and his first. There is a WC article saying Anaheim is one of the teams that called Snow during the season, asking about Nino.

If $ were really not a concern for Snow, why not package Nino+15th overall+ a prospect or nhler for Ryan? Isn't Ryan more likely to make a bigger impact then the rookie Strome or Bouchard?

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07-17-2013, 09:52 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I love when reach the fantasy stage.

Isles trade away a $3m salary and add $13m-$14m, that they cannot keep beyond 2013-2014.

Makes zero sense for the isles, but the Sabres need/ the Sabres want ..lol
I know, I know, Sorry for the fantasy trade.

IMO Buffalo is in full blown rebuild mode, and have done a great job drafting. The pieces are in place for them to have a quick turnaround; Gaining assets for Vanek and Miller would speed up that process even more.

Wonder how much Buffalo would retain, and/or Islanders would take to gain pricey assets that would (IMO) put them in the best position to compete for a while.

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07-17-2013, 10:02 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
How many offseasons, has Snow shoppef his first, reportedly trying to push his rebuild ahead by exchanging that 18 yr old, with a young player that has similar upside and is further along in his development?

How many interviews has Snow tried to deflect criticism of Wang's spending?

Snow shopped Nino and his first. There is a WC article saying Anaheim is one of the teams that called Snow during the season, asking about Nino.

If $ were really not a concern for Snow, why not package Nino+15th overall+ a prospect or nhler for Ryan? Isn't Ryan more likely to make a bigger impact then the rookie Strome or Bouchard?
There's an assumption here that 1. Anaheim called about Nino, therefore 2. they were high on Nino and may have accepted a package with him for Ryan. It's possible, but I think Anaheim called Garth and made an embarrassing buy-low offer (and a lot of teams probably did that). Garth may have countered with a first and Nino and something else for Ryan, who knows. Anaheim ends up with Ottawa, who offered a lot of value for Ryan.

A lot of this speculation rests on what you think about Garth as a GM. I'm more optimistic and think he's made plenty of calls but hasn't found a good match yet, and there are plenty of Isles fans who feel otherwise.

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07-17-2013, 10:03 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
I know, I know, Sorry for the fantasy trade.

IMO Buffalo is in full blown rebuild mode, and have done a great job drafting. The pieces are in place for them to have a quick turnaround; Gaining assets for Vanek and Miller would speed up that process even more.

Wonder how much Buffalo would retain, and/or Islanders would take to gain pricey assets that would (IMO) put them in the best position to compete for a while.
Unless Vanek/Miller are willing to take paycuts and fit into Wang's budget on extensions, I don't see the teams matching up well


Who cares if the Sabres retain 50% of each of their 2013-2014 salaries, when Wang would be 100% on the hook for extensions.

The Sabre fans who keep tossing out retaining salary, either cannot or will not see that.

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07-17-2013, 10:07 AM
  #143
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I think Vanek will get a very good return from some team at the deadline, but not what some Buffalo fans are asking for from the Islanders. Strome, Reinhart? For one year of Vanek? No thanks.

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07-17-2013, 10:11 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
And I think comments like this are gonna look hella dumb when he does get moved. Just like they did with Pominville. Darcy doesn't lose trades. He's certainly not going to start now, when dealing the best forward he's ever drafted. Buffalo won't be getting stuff like Strome+, like some fans seem to be clinging too, but Regier won't trading Vanek for less than Pominville.
that really depends on the market when he trades him. not like regier can force other gm's to pay out their ass like the wild did for pominville.

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07-17-2013, 10:14 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Unless Vanek/Miller are willing to take paycuts and fit into Wang's budget on extensions, I don't see the teams matching up well


Who cares if the Sabres retain 50% of each of their 2013-2014 salaries, when Wang would be 100% on the hook for extensions.

The Sabre fans who keep tossing out retaining salary, either cannot or will not see that.
Yeah, I understand. Just figured Wang would see the revenue the crazed Isles fans brought in from one playoffs series - and would be anxious to upgrade.

Not a fan of either team, but feel that 1st line wing and Top goaltender would put them over the top, not to mention the Sabres needing to address the rebuild; the money part got pushed aside at first, i can agree with that.

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07-17-2013, 10:18 AM
  #146
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wow this thread sucks. Can we close it?

Darcy doesn't lose trades. Snow is cheap. Bad partners. Let's move on.

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07-17-2013, 12:38 PM
  #147
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The Isles are bad trading partners as they have no cashflow according to the Isle fans.

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07-17-2013, 01:55 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
Yeah, I understand. Just figured Wang would see the revenue the crazed Isles fans brought in from one playoffs series - and would be anxious to upgrade.

Not a fan of either team, but feel that 1st line wing and Top goaltender would put them over the top, not to mention the Sabres needing to address the rebuild; the money part got pushed aside at first, i can agree with that.
Needs, in order:

1) Goalie





2) Top 2 D


3) 1st line winger


Something tells me that Isles don't want to pay for that winger (particularly a potential rental who could choose to go elsewhere) when they potentially project Strome to be that guy sooner than later.

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07-17-2013, 07:26 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by KJS14 View Post
That exclusion helps Vanek's case in comparison to all but 3 of the players I mentioned. Vanek averages 68 points per 82 games. That's average production for a first line winger. If by "last lockout" you meant last year, Vanek had a great 15 games or so and then returned to his regular form for the rest of the year. If you meant since 2004, then my arguement stands. All of those wingers are better than Vanek, and if you want to include centers the list would go on for a while.
Your argument is carp. Vanek has scored at least 25G every season (minus this last one of course, where he still got 20 in 38 GP). He does this every year with carp linemates, carp team possession, carp TOI, carp PP coaching, you name it.

Criticizing his playoff performance is also baseless, as discount his rookie year and he has 18 points in 26 playoff games, very solid especially given the type of teams that the '10 and '11 Sabres were.

I'd take Ovie, Hossa, Parise, or Kane over him at Wing atm. Hall, Yakupov, etc have the potential to become better but aren't atm. Neal, D Sedin, Kessel, Eberle, Nash, Voracek, are definitely not better.

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07-17-2013, 07:31 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by hunter7isles View Post
Needs, in order:

1) Goalie





2) Top 2 D


3) 1st line winger


Something tells me that Isles don't want to pay for that winger (particularly a potential rental who could choose to go elsewhere) when they potentially project Strome to be that guy sooner than later.
1.average goalies win cups
2. hamonic and lubo i also think hickey is ready for that as well but most people disagree
3. strome or clutterbuck

i think the isles only really need a number 5 dman (should be hainsey or murray), strait and carkner split time as the 6th man

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