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Which of Galchenyuk, Subban, or Price will have the best career?

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Old
07-16-2013, 09:20 AM
  #26
Estimated_Prophet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz View Post
With the way hockey players train and are coached today the difference between the top NHL players the average NHL players and the bottom tier NHL players has lessen to the point that you will never see another player dominate in the way an Orr or a Gretzky did.

So with that you will never be able to compare any player to Orr, so....
That isn't true at all.

It isn't as simple as comparing numbers from one generation to the next. It is the relative separation from their peers that will draw comparisons.

Like I said, Orr was the absolute consensus as the best player in the game during his reign of dominance. Comparing someone like Subban to Orr is ludicrous at this juncture. Subban should remain in the conversation as the best d-man in the game for years to come but that is light years away from being anointed as the consensus best player ahead of the Crosby's, Jagr's, Lindros', Lafleur's, Esposito's of the world.....Lidstrom never even approached such heights.

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07-16-2013, 09:25 AM
  #27
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The only thing that worries we about Subban is he is only average at thinking the game and if he sustains a serious knee injury and loses a step I fear that it would have a profoundly negative affect on his game. He is currently able to buy an extra second by evading defenders while he has the puck which allows him to make smart passes.

Hopefully we never have to find out

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07-16-2013, 10:01 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Any speculation are going to be very unfair to Galchenyuk, I say. He hasn't even come close to his potential.

Can we answer this question in 5 years?
I seriously think the answer could be given in 2 years max 3 because i don't see him taking that much time to hit his prime... due to his advanced understanding of.the game... and the tools are already in place... for exemple eller has all the.tools but he didn't have yet that work ethic and understanding of the game..like Galchy

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07-16-2013, 10:02 AM
  #29
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IMO Subban is way too overrated, at least in Montreal. Too early to tell about Galchenyuk though he has great potential and #1 C material. And Price well he still has plenty of years remaining in the NHL but I don't see him having a great career..

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07-16-2013, 10:07 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by doug88 View Post
IMO Subban is way too overrated, at least in Montreal. Too early to tell about Galchenyuk though he has great potential and #1 C material. And Price well he still has plenty of years remaining in the NHL but I don't see him having a great career..
Thanks for stopping by.

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07-16-2013, 10:09 AM
  #31
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Galchenyuk
Subban
Price

Hard to rank a franchise centre, franchise defenseman and franchise goaltender though.

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07-16-2013, 10:09 AM
  #32
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I think Galchenyuk will have a Toews like career.

Intangibles and all.

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07-16-2013, 10:10 AM
  #33
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Anyone who chooses any other than Subban is reaching.

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07-16-2013, 10:10 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by doug88 View Post
IMO Subban is way too overrated, at least in Montreal.
Subban sure is lucky that all of the Norris votes were from Montreal.

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07-16-2013, 10:12 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug88 View Post
IMO Subban is way too overrated, at least in Montreal. Too early to tell about Galchenyuk though he has great potential and #1 C material. And Price well he still has plenty of years remaining in the NHL but I don't see him having a great career..
You just looked at his TOI and his PK time this year didn't you?

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07-16-2013, 10:14 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
That isn't true at all.

It isn't as simple as comparing numbers from one generation to the next. It is the relative separation from their peers that will draw comparisons.

Like I said, Orr was the absolute consensus as the best player in the game during his reign of dominance. Comparing someone like Subban to Orr is ludicrous at this juncture. Subban should remain in the conversation as the best d-man in the game for years to come but that is light years away from being anointed as the consensus best player ahead of the Crosby's, Jagr's, Lindros', Lafleur's, Esposito's of the world.....Lidstrom never even approached such heights.
To compare Subban and Orr is not wrong at all. Subban said himself he always wanted to be like Bobby Orr, he was his idol when he was younger, his father brought him tapes of Orr and he kept watching them with admiration. Now he also admit he copy a bit his style of play, end-to-end rush etc.

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07-16-2013, 10:15 AM
  #37
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Subban >> Galchenyuk > Price

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07-16-2013, 10:16 AM
  #38
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P.K. Subban for now is the obvious choice. He's already a elite D-man and won Norris.

This is the order

-Subban (potential franchise player)
-Galchenyuk (potential good 1st line foward)
-Price (potential average 1st goalie)

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07-16-2013, 10:16 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieOfGames View Post
To compare Subban and Orr is not wrong at all. Subban said himself he always wanted to be like Bobby Orr, he was his idol when he was younger, his father brought him tapes of Orr and he kept watching them with admiration. Now he also admit he copy a bit his style of play, end-to-end rush etc.
And the more season Subban plays, the more he's like Orr.

He's still getting there...

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07-16-2013, 10:28 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Subban sure is lucky that all of the Norris votes were from Montreal.
It's pretty amazing that someone can be overrated when one of the most overwhelming responses to him winning the Norris were things like "half season," "no Karlsson," "we ought to change the way Norris trophies are decided."

It's unbelievable.

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07-16-2013, 10:33 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
There is an element of truth to that although that logic is far more applicable to Doug Harvey who wasn't big or fast but shattered the traditional mold of a d-man.

Orr was the complete package as his skating was off the charts and he was also very cerebral which by P.K.'s own admission, probably isn't his strong point....fortunately his instincts are very good. Let's not forget that Orr, despite not being a large man was a vicious fighter when he was provoked. Orr simply dominated the game in every aspect and was the hands down consensus as the best player in the game, not just best d-man.
Lindros was arguably one of the best PF in the game, he was a serious fighter when he dropped them as well, that didn't stop him from getting concussed.

Orr would not have the same career in today's NHL. It's just impossible. The game is completely different, literally, the rules are different. Heck, even the equipment is different. I'm not trying to take anything away from Orr, but he played in an era where Goalies had a thick layer of plastic covering their face (not head, just face), Andy Brown was still not wearing a mask when he retired in 74 (he was the last one to not wear one though). Goalie pads and torso protection were smaller than the ones of pee-wee hockey players today. The techniques of goalies has changed tremendously, not to mention the systems of teams overall and how forwards and Dmen play. Everything is different.
I feel the same about Gretzky. There's no way such a skinny guy scores 200pts in today's league.

Comparing eras shouldn't be done.


To get back on subject though, PK is in the lead for the better career.

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07-16-2013, 10:36 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieOfGames View Post
To compare Subban and Orr is not wrong at all. Subban said himself he always wanted to be like Bobby Orr, he was his idol when he was younger, his father brought him tapes of Orr and he kept watching them with admiration. Now he also admit he copy a bit his style of play, end-to-end rush etc.
How many thousands of d-men had Bobby Orr as their idol. This does not in any way increase their chances of being the next Bobby Orr. It is a shocker that every team doesn`t have a couple of Gretzky`s and Orr`s if that was the case.

I want to be Superman.....

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07-16-2013, 10:40 AM
  #43
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Lindros was arguably one of the best PF in the game, he was a serious fighter when he dropped them as well, that didn't stop him from getting concussed.

Orr would not have the same career in today's NHL. It's just impossible. The game is completely different, literally, the rules are different. Heck, even the equipment is different. I'm not trying to take anything away from Orr, but he played in an era where Goalies had a think layer of plastic covering their face (not head, just face), Andy Brown was still not wearing a mask when he retired in 74 (he was the last one to not wear one though). Goalie pads and torso protection were smaller than the ones of pee-wee hockey players today. The techniques of goalies has changed tremendously, not to mention the systems of teams overall and how forwards and Dmen play. Everything is different.
I feel the same about Gretzky. There's no way such a skinny guy scores 200pts in today's league.

Comparing eras shouldn't be done.


To get back on subject though, PK is in the lead for the better career.
Certain players would dominate regardless of when they played. Gretzky would have taken a hit in the new era as he played in the most wide open era of the sport.

Players like Lemieux, Orr and Howe would have dominated in any era due to their physical skillset.

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07-16-2013, 10:41 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
That isn't true at all.

It isn't as simple as comparing numbers from one generation to the next. It is the relative separation from their peers that will draw comparisons.

Like I said, Orr was the absolute consensus as the best player in the game during his reign of dominance. Comparing someone like Subban to Orr is ludicrous at this juncture. Subban should remain in the conversation as the best d-man in the game for years to come but that is light years away from being anointed as the consensus best player ahead of the Crosby's, Jagr's, Lindros', Lafleur's, Esposito's of the world.....Lidstrom never even approached such heights.
I agree you can't compare Subban to Orr.

My point is the seperation between the top/middle NHL players is way closer today than it was in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's, to the point that no player today or in the future will be able to dominate to the same degree as a Orr or a Gretzky.

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07-16-2013, 10:43 AM
  #45
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That isn't true at all.

It isn't as simple as comparing numbers from one generation to the next. It is the relative separation from their peers that will draw comparisons.
But that's not due to them simply being God like creatures. It's more because there was less hockey players in general, the sport in the 70s wasn't where it is today. Just like the sport in the 30s wasn't where it was in the 70s.

Less hockey players=less talent. That means that the little 4th liner of the 70s also had another part time job, you know what I mean?

The talent gap between top and bottom was much bigger back then. A lot of 3-4th liners today would play in the top 6 of the 70s.

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07-16-2013, 10:47 AM
  #46
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The way I see it is Subban has the potential in him to be in talks of one of best D of his era if he continues to progress, as in always in conversation as an argument with Karlsson etc. Subban vs Karlsson - Crosby vs Ovechkin etc

Price has the tools to be the best goalie in the league if he focuses and plays to his abilities

But Glachenyuk, and this is not a knock to him I love him as a prospect and he will be our number 1 C and wouldn't trade him for most players in the league, will rarely if ever be in a conversation with guys like Stamkos, Crosby, Malkin etc. He has to potential to put up seasons like them but I don't think he will be there consistently every year for the next 9-10 years. If I'm wrong GREAT, but right now it's hard to see that in him

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07-16-2013, 10:52 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Certain players would dominate regardless of when they played. Gretzky would have taken a hit in the new era as he played in the most wide open era of the sport.

Players like Lemieux, Orr and Howe would have dominated in any era due to their physical skillset.
I disagree.

I think today is the most dangerous era. Back then, you touched Gretzky, you had crazy McSorley that would come swipe his stick at your head, or just punched the crap out of you and he'd get away with it. The equipment also wasn't as lethal. Also, it was the clutch and grab era, you could literally just hook a player and let him carry you.

Today, the rules in place make the players skate a lot faster, combined with rock hard equipment, one body check is enough to end your career.

Gretzky would probably still have been a scoring leader, maybe even reach high totals, but I doubt he would have had the same career.

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07-16-2013, 11:01 AM
  #48
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Anyone who chooses any other than Subban is reaching.
woah, you can predict the next 15 seasons or so for 3 Habs players, not bad...

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07-16-2013, 11:05 AM
  #49
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Subban already has a Norris at the age of 24, nuff said.

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07-16-2013, 11:06 AM
  #50
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But that's not due to them simply being God like creatures. It's more because there was less hockey players in general, the sport in the 70s wasn't where it is today. Just like the sport in the 30s wasn't where it was in the 70s.

Less hockey players=less talent. That means that the little 4th liner of the 70s also had another part time job, you know what I mean?

The talent gap between top and bottom was much bigger back then. A lot of 3-4th liners today would play in the top 6 of the 70s.
We probably agree on more points than you think but the evolution of the game isn`t as linear as you may think. It was the decade of the 80`s and the post WHA expansion years prior to the influx of European players where numbers truly got skewed. There were more teams filled out with bottom tier NHL players and career minor leaguers due to an abundance of jobs and a lack of skilled players to fill them. This was eventually corrected over time with the influx of European talent.

As you can see, more players does not always mean better players. If the league added 10 more expansion teams in the next 5 years the quality of hockey would be permanently damaged as there are not any more untapped resources such as Europe from which to draw upon.

There is a strong arguement that in Orr`s days which were played with between 6 and 16 teams there weren`t many jobs available so only the best of the best were playing. It is the creation of new jobs without the resources to fill them that results in a weakened product.

It is always a futile effort to directly compare era`s in professional sports. So much of it becomes subjective as you are dealing with non comparable statistics on each side.

The easiest way to compare Orr to Subban is simply to compare their effect on the game and their relative standing to their current peers. As of right now Subban is on more of a Denis Potvin, Brad Park or Raymond Bourque type of projection and that is being very optimistic.

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