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Arbitration hearing dates for Gunnarson and Fraser have been set

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Old
07-16-2013, 11:55 PM
  #51
Hurt
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Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
Franson is the most glorified #6 that has ever played for the Leafs, and Gardiner has to prove it this year. Not enough sample last season to decide he's head and shoulders the better D-man than Gunnar yet.
Man. We must have the best #6 D-man in the league because he ended up #8 out of ALL THE DEFENSEMEN in the league in points and was no defensive stooge.

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07-17-2013, 12:07 AM
  #52
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Yep, the Leafs #6 dman finished top-10 in the league in scoring.

Leafs most have the best defense corps of all time.

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07-17-2013, 02:29 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Kessley Snipes View Post
I dont think he and Kadri filed for arbitration. Although I don't think Kadri is arbitration eligible.

Either way it must mean discussions are going well with Franson. Would love to lock him up for 4-5 years.
or it could mean that he thinks he might be able to get an offersheet from another club on a big longterm contract. since if you file for arbitration your no longer allowed to sign an offersheet.

not saying this is going to happen but it's a possibility.

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07-17-2013, 02:34 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by LeafOfBread View Post
He showed he can be pretty physical in the playoffs. I don't know why you think he's poor offensively though...he's got a good first pass and he put up 15 even strength points this year, 2nd most on the team behind only Franson who had 16, and with the exception of Yandle and Letang who had 25 and 20 respectively, the highest number other defensemen were able to achieve was 18. He had very little PP time yet still put up those numbers.
He spent less than half of his season with Phaneuf during the regular season. Gunnars was demoted several times and his production would increase for that reason. He produced 6 assists with Phaneuf, but that has a lot to do with the fact that he was being carried.

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Hjalmarsson isn't that much better, if at all really. Him and Gunnarsson faced the same level of competition during the season and Gunnarsson had a higher CORSI relative despite the fact that Hjalmarsson plays for the best puck possession team in the league while Gunnarsson played for one of the worst. Hjalmarsson has a better GA/60 on, but Chicago was far and away the best team and allowed the least amount of goals due to the fact that the teams they faced could hardly get control of the puck against them. Gunnarsson's GF/60 on is also better.
Hjalmarsson is effective, but I don't think Chicago is desperate to resign him. I can see then pushing Nick Leddy who looks pretty strong on the defensive end despite having a 37 point season. That's higher than Gardiner, by the way. For that reason, I can see Chicago placing him on the second pairing in the near future.

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"Great" may be pushing it but he's certainly a solid d-man on the 2nd pairing. If you think Hjalmarsson is good then you should think Gunnarsson is good too cause they're almost the same.
Hjalmarsson is not a critical piece. If we're going to be haggling on funds because we can't give Phaneuf a million dollar raise, I'd rather let Gunnars walk. Besides, I'd rather have Franson and Gardiner signed than him. Those two can be moved for significant pieces if required.

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07-17-2013, 02:36 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Yep, the Leafs #6 dman finished top-10 in the league in scoring.

Leafs most have the best defense corps of all time.
well he did do it mainly playing on the third pairing with Fraser for the majority of the year with almost 3 mins of PP/TOI

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07-17-2013, 02:41 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
Man. We must have the best #6 D-man in the league because he ended up #8 out of ALL THE DEFENSEMEN in the league in points and was no defensive stooge.
We severely overrated Gardiner and Gunnarsson and underrate those who have produced significantly more. What stuns me is that during the playoffs Franson faced heavier competition than Gunnarsson ( CORSI Rel QoC), had lower OZone % and yet was only the defensively utilized defenceman with a positive corsi relative.

Phaneuf did see the most heaviest minutes and would be the first to be fielded against the top lines and the last to end his shift. I think the puck moving component ( not in Gunnarsson) is severely limiting Dion's production.

PS: Gardiner was heavily sheltered and had a OZone start approaching 60%. He was being utilized as an offensive defenceman and even then was a liability on his own end.

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07-17-2013, 02:47 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
well he did do it mainly playing on the third pairing with Fraser for the majority of the year with almost 3 mins of PP/TOI
He was essentially top 4 in terms of ice time. His SH TOI in the playoffs was third amongst defenceman as well. It became rather obvious that Carlyle was giving him more responsibility as the season developed.

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07-17-2013, 07:24 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
I pointed it out because you seemed to be under the impression Gunnarsson will about to become paid as a bottom pairing defender in Toronto.

Gunnarsson has however been paired with Phaneuf on the top pairing and is going to arbitration to get a raise on his previous deal. His +21 minutes a night TOI/g places him 2nd among Leaf regulars in icetime.

The plan has never been to use Gunnarsson as a bottom pairing defender, so not sure where you got that impression he was.
I've never been under the impression that "he will become paid as a bottom pairing defender", I believe I said "hopefully".

He was paired with Phanuef in the same manner Kostka and Holzer were, by default.
I doubt the Leafs see him as a top pairing guy or they would have offered money as such and Arbitration would be avoided.

Going forward as this becomes a stronger Team, I see him on the bottom pair.
I've never seen this plan you refer to but would be happy to look it over if you could post a copy.

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07-17-2013, 08:27 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by The Viper View Post
Gardiner and Franson are better than he is
Thats why Franson plays on the 3rd pairing 5v5 and Gunnarsson on the 1st, right? Franson may be better in the future, he had a pretty good playoffs, but Gunnarsson has been our steadiest defenseman 3-4 years now. Gardiner will be better but he still needs to prove he can handle 80+ games as a top-4 defenseman before he's heralded as better right now.

Both of these guys need to get locked up. Gunnarsson just seems like a guy who will remain under-payed for his services while he quietly goes about doing his business and Fraser brings the nastiness and shot-blocking ability you want from your cheap bottom-pairing defenseman. These guys are not as replaceable as people like to think.

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07-17-2013, 08:53 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Letting Gunnarsson reach arbitration would be a huge mistake for Nonis. A 1 year deal takes him to unrestricted free agency, and this is a guy who we should be locking up 3-5 years right now. His versatility makes him the kind of player that can always help your team, and currently, he plays a very substantial role with our team. I don't see that changing with our current group.
Not really. You have a developmental pipeline with guys like Granberg in it so you can make the decision to walk away from a Gunnarsson or trade him if it makes cap sense.

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07-17-2013, 10:17 AM
  #61
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I think Liles HAS to be traded and if no one wants him pray that he gets picked up on waivers.

I think for the first 9 games it will be (this is assuming we resign all RFA's):

Phaneuf Gunnar
Gardiner Franson
Fraser Rielly
Brennan

Then make a decision on Rielly. If he shows he's progressed enough to stick, then stick with this lineup and have Holzer, Granberg, Blacker etc. ready to come up for injuries.

If they decide to send Rielly back to the dub after his 9 game stint go with

Phaneuf Gunnar
Gardiner Franson
Fraser/Brennan/Holzer
Blacker & Granberg for injuries

Liles, gtfo

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Old
07-17-2013, 10:22 AM
  #62
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Wow... some of you are really undervaluing our defensemen, and are going to be surprised what they will be awarded.

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07-17-2013, 10:25 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Not really. You have a developmental pipeline with guys like Granberg in it so you can make the decision to walk away from a Gunnarsson or trade him if it makes cap sense.
I normally agree with you but don't you think it is wiser to retain your RFAs so that when guys like Granberg and Percy come through the pipeline you can move Gunnarsson to fill a void elsewhere?

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07-17-2013, 10:34 AM
  #64
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I'd give Gunnar anything south of 4 million dollars. It's amazing how he's still so underrated around here. Our best defenseman at carrying it out of our own zone, making short crisp passes that lets our forwards break into the offensive zone. One of our best at holding the opposing blue lines (which is how he racks up most of his secondary assists) plus has an underrated wrist shot. And he's still young. Gunnarsson is going to top out as a Dennis Seidenberg type player and we should lock him up. There were two or three games last season where Gunnarsson was out (around the end) and non-coincidentally they were games where we had zero offensive breakout and got outshot horribly.


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07-17-2013, 10:54 AM
  #65
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I think it absolutely is that easy. We found him in the minors, if pro scouting tried hard enough they'd find another. These kind of guys come out of the woodwork every year.
I agree. You can find a guy like Fraser easily somewhere else. The guy is not really that good and was exposed in the playoffs. He is journey man. If he is re-signed, then that's fine as long as he is used as a #6-7 guy.

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07-17-2013, 11:58 AM
  #66
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Defense was our weakest position yet we have 5 top 4 d-men. Funny how that works.

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07-17-2013, 11:59 AM
  #67
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Defense was our weakest position yet we have 5 top 4 d-men. Funny how that works.
But only one current top pairing, that's the problem.

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07-17-2013, 02:52 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by The_Chosen_One View Post
He was essentially top 4 in terms of ice time. His SH TOI in the playoffs was third amongst defenceman as well. It became rather obvious that Carlyle was giving him more responsibility as the season developed.
I was actually giving him a compliment by saying he got top 10 in scoring from mostly the bottom pairing and PP time. he averaged 18 mins a game that's not top 4 minutes, in February he only averaged 17 19 in march and then in april 21 which is top 4 minutes. all I said was that he wasn't played as a top 4 Dmen for the majority of the regular season which is correct he played with Mark Fraser on the bottom pairing for it. and he got 3 mins per game on the PP.

infact Franson was the only 1 in the top 30 in scoring for Dmen who didn't average atleast 20 mins a game.

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07-17-2013, 03:08 PM
  #69
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Defense was our weakest position yet we have 5 top 4 d-men. Funny how that works.
Well Holzer and Kostka playing big minutes against top lines will obviously drag the team down.

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07-17-2013, 03:11 PM
  #70
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Defense was our weakest position yet we have 5 top 4 d-men. Funny how that works.
the problem was only 2 of them were playing in the top-4 last year.

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07-17-2013, 03:29 PM
  #71
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Fraser was not a rookie last year.
As a 23 year old Fraser played over 60 games for a very good New Jersey team.
Injuries plagued him after that.
Now the soon to be 27 year old is in his prime.
6'4"-220 lbs and a mean streak.
Not easily replaced....

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07-17-2013, 08:11 PM
  #72
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Not really. You have a developmental pipeline with guys like Granberg in it so you can make the decision to walk away from a Gunnarsson or trade him if it makes cap sense.
Well said. Granberg is a better version of Gunnarsson. He is also a pretty decent passer. Rounding out our bottom pairing with these kind of defenceman is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by BonMorrison View Post
I'd give Gunnar anything south of 4 million dollars. It's amazing how he's still so underrated around here. Our best defenseman at carrying it out of our own zone, making short crisp passes that lets our forwards break into the offensive zone. One of our best at holding the opposing blue lines (which is how he racks up most of his secondary assists) plus has an underrated wrist shot. And he's still young. Gunnarsson is going to top out as a Dennis Seidenberg type player and we should lock him up. There were two or three games last season where Gunnarsson was out (around the end) and non-coincidentally they were games where we had zero offensive breakout and got outshot horribly.
I must say, Gunnarsson is being overrated here. Our best defenceman in carrying it out of our zone is Phaneuf. Yes, Gardiner is more creative, while Franson can make crisp long-range passes, but Phaneuf is the most dangerous guy on the transition.

My criticism about Phaneuf is that he is not a puck rusher. It's actually not a criticism, because he is more of a Stevens-class defenceman. He's not very creative in that regard, but seriously, he's miles ahead of Gunnarsson. I'd rather sign Phaneuf for $7-8 million than keep Gunnars @ $4 million. One can be replaced while the other cannot.

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Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
I was actually giving him a compliment by saying he got top 10 in scoring from mostly the bottom pairing and PP time. he averaged 18 mins a game that's not top 4 minutes, in February he only averaged 17 19 in march and then in april 21 which is top 4 minutes. all I said was that he wasn't played as a top 4 Dmen for the majority of the regular season which is correct he played with Mark Fraser on the bottom pairing for it. and he got 3 mins per game on the PP.

infact Franson was the only 1 in the top 30 in scoring for Dmen who didn't average atleast 20 mins a game.
Franson received more defensive responsibilities as the season went by. He was the one covering Fraser and Gardiner on the defensive side and I think we need to resign him. If for some reason we want to shed cap space, he is going to have a lot of trade value.

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07-17-2013, 08:14 PM
  #73
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the problem was only 2 of them were playing in the top-4 last year.
I think giving Franson and Gardiner top 4 minutes is going to improve our defence tremendously. Rielly will eventually replace Gunnarsson or maybe Gardiner does it this year, and our top 4 is set.

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07-18-2013, 01:31 AM
  #74
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Fraser was not a rookie last year.
As a 23 year old Fraser played over 60 games for a very good New Jersey team.
Injuries plagued him after that.
Now the soon to be 27 year old is in his prime.
6'4"-220 lbs and a mean streak.
Not easily replaced....
I just hope they agree before arbitration because,i would hate to see a arbitrator force Nonis to walk away from some absurd award. Gunnarsson doesn't really fit Carlyles brand. just sayin.

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07-18-2013, 03:04 AM
  #75
Tyler Biggs
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I for one am really glad Bozak resigned and now all we need is to make sure we lock Kadri, Franson, Gunnar and Fraser in. Can't wait for the season to start. GLG!!!

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