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Ducks sign Dustin Penner. 1 yr, $2 M

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Old
07-16-2013, 06:08 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by TheRagingBolshevik View Post
Very true, and in fact, I just was sitting here thinking of that. I have to think we are though if Bob is signing Penner. Can't imagine signing Penner for 2 million then going out and picking up any other higher end players.
What higher end players are available?

To extend that question to the obvious next step: What higher end players are available, who want to come here?

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07-16-2013, 06:08 PM
  #102
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I don't understand the outrage over this move. If he sucks and the kids play better than him, he'll be a healthy scratch.

I guarantee BM kicked the necessary tires. I'm sure he tried for Jagr and Grabovski, and I'm sure he felt they were out of the price range. And I'd take Penner over other dumpster dives like Boyes and Mueller every day.

I'm calling it now. Penner scores 20 next year if he plays with the twins.

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07-16-2013, 06:10 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Professor John Frink View Post
Nitpicking I know, but if the Ducks dealt the guys you mentioned away I imagine they could get more than a 38 year old UFA. But I understand what you are saying.

I said it in another thread, but competition for positions is a good thing. Forcing players to earn their role in the NHL is a good thing. I don't care if Maroon is on a one way deal. Earn the spot. I don't care if Etem had a great playoff series. Earn the spot.

Duck fans aren't use to having a lot of great prospects fighting for a few positions on the team. As much as we want it to be true not every prospect will make it(which you elude to). I just feel like the Ducks feel confident about guys like Bonino, Palmieri, and Vatanen making the team but they worry about Etem(being truly ready) and Holland(dominates AHL/will it translate), Maroon(see Holland). Penner is an insurance policy which essentially cost the Ducks only a roster spot this season. Nothing long term.
I agree that players must earn their spots. But 2 million for a lazy player to be our backup if the kids can't step up is... yikes.

And I feel like the nostalgia will be too much and we'll see PPG forced to stay together as younger players are buried in the lineup.

As much as young guys need to earn it, a player like Penner needs to earn it just as much, if not more, given his lazy history.

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07-16-2013, 06:14 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
What higher end players are available?

To extend that question to the obvious next step: What higher end players are available, who want to come here?
Grabovski, Prospal, Mueller (I like him), Boyes (think he could work), maybe even guys like Brunner or other younger players.

Obviously, neither you nor I know if certain players want to be here or not.

Doesn't change the fact that I think it's stupid to spend 2 million for a year of one of the laziest and unenthused players in the league.

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07-16-2013, 06:14 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRagingBolshevik View Post
If they spent 100 million dollars on him because they had the money and no cap, fine. But we are a budget team and spending 2 million on yet another reclamation project is stupid.

We didn't need another left winger, could we use one? Sure, but to me, it wasn't a big problem. Our problem is 2nd line center and our D.

Oh well.

Again, I hope he proves me wrong.
I guess I am just projecting some the over the top angry reactions onto you.

But again, who's budget? Certainly not mine. If they want to go over by all means. That shouldn't be a reason against bringing him in.

I agree with you on it being a bit odd. But I think people forget Penner scored 122 goals in his first 5 seasons in the league. 4 of them were at least 20 goals seasons. Now he was terrible in LA but for 2 million its a very safe signing that holds no long term risk.

I know people harp on the 2nd line C thing. But Murray has made it pretty clear via quotes that he wants to give Holland a chance this season. With him and Bonino it lends itself to BM feeling much more confident about the C position than he does about the wings.

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07-16-2013, 06:16 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by TheRagingBolshevik View Post
As much as young guys need to earn it, a player like Penner needs to earn it just as much, if not more, given his lazy history.
I don't see why he wouldn't have to. 2 mil is a lot to spend for a player to potentially sit in the pressbox, but it ain't my money.

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07-16-2013, 06:16 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Professor John Frink View Post
I guess I am just projecting some the over the top angry reactions onto you.

But again, who's budget? Certainly not mine. If they want to go over by all means. That shouldn't be a reason against bringing him in.

I agree with you on it being a bit odd. But I think people forget Penner scored 122 goals in his first 5 seasons in the league. 4 of them were at least 20 goals seasons. Now he was terrible in LA but for 2 million its a very safe signing that holds no long term risk.

I know people harp on the 2nd line C thing. But Murray has made it pretty clear via quotes that he wants to give Holland a chance this season. With him and Bonino is lends itself to BM feeling much more confident about the C position than he does about the wings.
If they go over their budget, that's fine, but if it's for a guy like Penner, and because of that, limits other possible moves, I'm annoyed.

And to me, going with Holland/Bonino at 2nd line center is way worse than having Silfverberg or another younger winger on the top line.

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07-16-2013, 06:19 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by jax00 View Post
I don't understand the outrage over this move. If he sucks and the kids play better than him, he'll be a healthy scratch.

I guarantee BM kicked the necessary tires. I'm sure he tried for Jagr and Grabovski, and I'm sure he felt they were out of the price range. And I'd take Penner over other dumpster dives like Boyes and Mueller every day.

I'm calling it now. Penner scores 20 next year if he plays with the twins.
I'm not outraged. It might work.

But it probably won't. More likely, Penner is the opposite of solving our "it's not good enough" problem.

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07-16-2013, 06:19 PM
  #109
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Not a bad move. It's low risk so I'm fine with it and it gives us a bit more size up front. The only question I have is about his conditioning; is he going to be able to play 20+ per night if he's with Getzlaf and Perry?

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07-16-2013, 06:21 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Damn Skippy View Post
I'm not outraged. It might work.

But it probably won't. More likely, Penner is the opposite of solving our "it's not good enough" problem.
Exactly a huge part of my sentiment.

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07-16-2013, 06:22 PM
  #111
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Guess no one wanted a two time Stanley Cup winner anymore. Lol. Penner never should left Anaheim.

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07-16-2013, 06:22 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Professor John Frink View Post
Penner is an insurance policy which essentially cost the Ducks only a roster spot this season. Nothing long term.
An insurance policy pays off when misfortune hits. My beef is Penner is a know quantity of not paying off. He will take up a roster spot and ice time until reality sets in and everybody who loves it now starts demanding we call up or play some young guy in his place.

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07-16-2013, 06:23 PM
  #113
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Is it unfathomable to think he just didn't fit with LA? He isn't a star forward but he wasn't a complete waste of space up until he was traded to LA.

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07-16-2013, 06:23 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
An insurance policy pays off when misfortune hits. My beef is Penner is a know quantity of not paying off. He will take up a roster spot and ice time until reality sets in and everybody who loves it now starts demanding we call up or play some young guy in his place.
That's not true. He's produced everywhere other than LA. He didn't really fit there in that suffocating system they play. I think he'll bounce back in a more open system

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Old
07-16-2013, 06:24 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRagingBolshevik View Post
I agree that players must earn their spots. But 2 million for a lazy player to be our backup if the kids can't step up is... yikes.

And I feel like the nostalgia will be too much and we'll see PPG forced to stay together as younger players are buried in the lineup.

As much as young guys need to earn it, a player like Penner needs to earn it just as much, if not more, given his lazy history.
You aren't wrong about him having to earn it.

But he at least provides something the Ducks are lacking. A big body who can stand in front of the net and work along the boards. Other than Getz and Perry no one in the top 6 is capable of that.

The thought of Penner and Perry in front of the net for a PP brings me great joy.

Plus it doesn't force Etem into a role I personally don't think he is ready for.

But as you said, we all want the team to win, we just have different views of how we get there.

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07-16-2013, 06:30 PM
  #116
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I dont see why anybody would whine about this? if he isn't fit in the top 6, he won't play. Although penner is a guy who probably could fit on the 4th line with beleskey and give that line some pop. Its silly to call this a bad move.
This. It feels like this board has been a total whinefest and I'm sick of it.

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07-16-2013, 06:30 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Professor John Frink View Post
You aren't wrong about him having to earn it.

But he at least provides something the Ducks are lacking. A big body who can stand in front of the net and work along the boards. Other than Getz and Perry no one in the top 6 is capable of that.

The thought of Penner and Perry in front of the net for a PP brings me great joy.

Plus it doesn't force Etem into a role I personally don't think he is ready for.

But as you said, we all want the team to win, we just have different views of how we get there.
Always nice discussing hockey with people like you. We didn't argue/yell/insult, we discussed. Nice change!!

Let's just all hope he bounces back and kills it and in a few months I feel like an idiot.

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07-16-2013, 06:31 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
An insurance policy pays off when misfortune hits. My beef is Penner is a know quantity of not paying off. He will take up a roster spot and ice time until reality sets in and everybody who loves it now starts demanding we call up or play some young guy in his place.
Ok fine. He doesn't pay off. Does it matter? He sits in the press box and Etem or Holland or Palmieri or Maroon or Beleskey take his spot.

I guess I just need someone to explain to me where the downside is? Is it because you wanted them to sign another winger? Is is because you wanted a 2C? A Dman. Did you think someone else we would sign for that term and amount? You think his work ethic will spread to Etem, Vatanen, Noesen like a disease essentially making Mat Clark our 2014 #1 prospect in the polls?

I've heard anger, I just haven't heard anything other than he sucks, he is lazy. I'll pay a lazy NHL guy 2 million for 1 year all day if he has 4 20 goals seasons under his belt over a top prospect who has done nothing to date. Especially when Penner provides something the Ducks are missing(size)


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07-16-2013, 06:31 PM
  #119
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This. It feels like this board has been a total whinefest and I'm sick of it.
Then leave. Problem solved.

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07-16-2013, 06:33 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by TheRagingBolshevik View Post
Grabovski, Prospal, Mueller (I like him), Boyes (think he could work), maybe even guys like Brunner or other younger players.

Obviously, neither you nor I know if certain players want to be here or not.

Doesn't change the fact that I think it's stupid to spend 2 million for a year of one of the laziest and unenthused players in the league.
Assuming that Murray wanted a LW, only Prospal among your options makes sense. Also, all those players, except for maybe Mueller, would also be more costly. Prospal isn't exactly known for bringing grit or good defense either, and is also less physical than Penner. Mueller is both slow and soft, and not overly productive. Boyes could end up getting overpaid, as he was decent this year. But he has been a shell of his former self in years before that. And I don't think this signing stops them from getting another center.

I doubt managment sees Grabovski as an option. Signing a guy like him to a three, four or five year deal doesn't send good signals to the up and coming players. If anything I'd expect a stop gap veteran, which is probably why Murray targeted Derek Roy.

Either way, Penner's contract can be compared to the likes of Souray's or Allen's. If it's around $2 mil, trading him won't be a problem with only one year left. Teams runs into long-term injuries, and guys with Penner's contract are usually the first you try and fill the void with if you're gonna bring in someone from the outside.

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07-16-2013, 06:36 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by TheRagingBolshevik View Post
Always nice discussing hockey with people like you. We didn't argue/yell/insult, we discussed. Nice change!!

Let's just all hope he bounces back and kills it and in a few months I feel like an idiot.
I agree! And it's the funny thing about team message boards in general. We all are here because we are obsessed with the team and want to see them win. We just have different ideas on how to get there.

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07-16-2013, 06:37 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by TheRagingBolshevik View Post
If they spent 100 million dollars on him because they had the money and no cap, fine. But we are a budget team and spending 2 million on yet another reclamation project is stupid.

We didn't need another left winger, could we use one? Sure, but to me, it wasn't a big problem. Our problem is 2nd line center and our D.

Oh well.

Again, I hope he proves me wrong.
We actually did because we don't have any natural left wingers. We have Belesky, Etem and Winnik. Palmieri and Silfverberg are naturally right wingers. I think Penner is going to be less productive than all four of them but we definitely don't have too many left wingers.

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07-16-2013, 06:39 PM
  #123
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First, anyone who thinks Prospal was a better signing is under the age of 22. We could not wait to get his soft play off of this team years ago. He reminded me of Whitney, but on offense.

Back to Penner.

Likes
Good size which we needed on offense
has good chemistry with Getz and Perry
Good in the playoffs
Good contract for one year - low risk
Allows Etem to play on the 4th line and not have the pressure to score in his rookie year

negatives
may not put of top 6 points this year
may not bring it every night
May take a spot of a young player (I dont think there was one that was better)


Overall, I like palmieri with the twins better, but this will help us in the playoffs and allows us the chance to let some young players prove themselves. Those who are thinking Bonino is not a 2nd line center, he did play pretty good in the playoffs with 3 goals. With a second line of Silf-bonino-Palmieri, if a trade is made for someone, my guess it would be for that line.

I am hoping this is a lead in for another trade on Defense.

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07-16-2013, 06:44 PM
  #124
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Thats pretty slippery sloped. .

How could we get 6 proven forwards on this team? Deal away palms, etem, cogs, silf, noeson, bonino, etc etc for top 6 guys like prospal?

We have been dealt a hand. We have 2 guys in getz and perry, and we have a while boatful of youngsters looking for roster spots.

And frankly, trickling them in 2 a year is going to hold some kids back While 'proven' top 6 ers fill the slots.

Its not really about this year imo. Its 2014-2015. Next offseason is time to finetune for cup runs. This season, its all about finding some gems in your youth.

Thats how they won last time. Thats how you have to do it in a cap era. We need to see all the youngsters who are nhl ready, in action and developing into cheap, up and coming producers behind the big 2. Then, use the capspace next year to stab for the 8 mil dman.
If people wake up and realize that 2nd line player doesn't = Kesler, Krejci etc, the team could have added a top six forward or two without giving all the assets you're listing. We have draft picks, and some mid level prospects that can give us someone older. Other teams have promising prospects too, doesn't mean they all insert them in the team at once, especially not in the top six.

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07-16-2013, 06:45 PM
  #125
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9 goals in 117 games. That doesn't scream optimism. Unless he hits the gym hard in the next eight weeks I fear it'll be more of the same and I'm sorry but I'm not okay assuming a 2 million dollar player to be scratched. Maroon makes a quarter of that and will probably be just as productive. This team is built on skating and speed. Penner is a terrible fit. He wasn't a regular linemate with Getzlaf and Perry and I don't expect him to be this season.

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