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Mike Bossy vs. Alex Ovechkin

View Poll Results: Who's better?
Alex Ovechkin 37 28.03%
Mike Bossy 95 71.97%
Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-16-2013, 09:56 PM
  #1
Fred Taylor
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Mike Bossy vs. Alex Ovechkin

Who do you consider the better player?

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Old
07-16-2013, 09:58 PM
  #2
SaintPatrick33
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Bossy.....And I'm a longtime Caps fan.

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07-16-2013, 11:05 PM
  #3
Hawkey Town 18
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Bossy...Ovechkin needs more time

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07-16-2013, 11:18 PM
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Dissonance
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Ovechkin has arguably accomplished more in the regular season by now. So in that sense he might be the better player.

But... if I could take only one of them for a playoff run, it'd be Bossy. Sure, it's a small sample size. And yes, Ovechkin has been good in the playoffs at times. But Bossy was just ridiculously reliable year after year, series after series--even when the dynasty was in decline. That's too much to pass up.

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07-16-2013, 11:25 PM
  #5
Killion
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Mike Bossy ... wouldnt a better
comparison be like a Bure or Ovi?...

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07-16-2013, 11:33 PM
  #6
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
Bossy...Ovechkin needs more time
How much more time? At this point, Bossy is only ahead 10-8 in terms of full seasons.

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Old
07-17-2013, 12:16 AM
  #7
Hawkey Town 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
How much more time? At this point, Bossy is only ahead 10-8 in terms of full seasons.
Probably at least 2 more seasons in the top 10 in scoring along with some kind of a playoff run as his team's best player (Conf. Finals or deeper)




EDIT: I know we've moved on to better things like vs.X but I'm too lazy for anything but scoring finishes right now...

Bossy w/out Gretzky Lemieux and Co. vs. Ovechkin w/out Crosby/Malkin

Bossy: 1, 1, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 6, 12
Ovechkin: 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 7, 11

taking out like finishes

Bossy: 3, 3, 4, 6, 12
Ovechkin: 2, 7, 11


and that's before factoring in playoffs where Bossy should have some edge as well


Last edited by Hawkey Town 18: 07-17-2013 at 12:28 AM.
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Old
07-17-2013, 01:49 AM
  #8
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
How much more time? At this point, Bossy is only ahead 10-8 in terms of full seasons.
True, but 10 seasons in that era is more significant than 10 seasons now would be.

anyway, I still say Bossy for now. Let's see Ovechkin win a big game sometime before we have this conversation seriously.

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07-17-2013, 02:22 AM
  #9
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Bossy.

Ovechkin is a superb player, but Bossy was better. For those who saw both of them play, I'd be surprised if they didn't take Bossy.

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07-17-2013, 02:24 AM
  #10
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
True, but 10 seasons in that era is more significant than 10 seasons now would be.

anyway, I still say Bossy for now. Let's see Ovechkin win a big game sometime before we have this conversation seriously.
Well, Ovechkin was the key player in Russia's win over Canada in the Olympics a few years back.

But I know what you mean.

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Old
07-17-2013, 06:32 AM
  #11
TAnnala
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I know Bossy had damn tough competition in his prime, but his Hart voting record is somewhat disappointing to me.

He was 3rd and 4th in Hart voting and if I recall correctly nothing meaningful after that. Was he suffering for playing in dynasty or he just wasn't the main cog in his team? He has the Conn Smythe and few Smythe worthy playoffs, but considering the offensive game he had in regular season he should probably have a few more runner-ups for the Hart. Or higher vote shares in general.

In that department Ovechkin does beat Bossy quite handidly. How strong were Ovechkin's Hart season's?

His 65 goal campaign, for me, seems as the strongest season between these players. So he would finish ahead of Bossy's best season.

Bossy was pretty damn good in 81-82, finishing 2nd in points and goals behind the one dude called Gretzky. But in Hart voting Bryan Trottier edges Bossy for 2nd place. Actually the difference is quite clear. Wayne was the unanimous winner, but Trottier had 41 2nd place votes and 130 voting points against Bossy's 10 2nd place votes and 34 voting points. Can someone elaborate me on this one?
But until I have more info I am going to say that this particular season is 2nd best from Ovechkin and Bossy.

The second best season by Bossy is probably 80-81. When he finished 4th in Hart voting, although the Hart was two way race that year. Mike Liut vs. Wayne Gretzky but that was the only year when Bossy was ahead of Trottier in Hart voting. (Well he did finish ahead of Trottier in some season's when they both got only few votes and frankly, i don't give a lot of weight on 1-3 votes)

Ovechkin probably has two season on the same caliber, the two other seasons when he on the Lindsay/Pearson award. Maybe I would go even as far as ranking his Olympic year a bit higher as third. He was the best player on the planet 09-10.

Ovechkin 07-08
Bossy 81-82
Ovechkin 09-10
Bossy 80-81/Ovechkin 08-09

am I going straight to the woods with these rankings? I wasn't alive when Bossy played so I have to rely on other peoples opinions only.

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07-17-2013, 07:09 AM
  #12
Canadiens1958
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Accomplishments

The accomplishments argument is interesting. Has a player accomplished more or have his contemporaries accomplished a lot less?

Bossy was accomplishing against prime Lafleur at RW, extreme depth at the center position and on defense. Ovechkin had little competition at LW, a historically weak position, faced little center depth and is playing in between an era of defensemen similar to the post prime Harvey/pre prime Orr period.

In his projected prime period Bossy never underperformed to the point of changing positions like Ovechkin did. That the positional change went better than expected reflects on Ovechkin and the lack of depth at RW in the NHL and the inability of the defensemen and systems to adapt to such a change quickly.

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07-17-2013, 07:21 AM
  #13
Darth Yoda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
In his projected prime period Bossy never underperformed to the point of changing positions like Ovechkin did. That the positional change went better than expected reflects on Ovechkin and the lack of depth at RW in the NHL and the inability of the defensemen and systems to adapt to such a change quickly.
No. If they in fact found his secret out but then could not just do it mirrorwise too, i believe he's doing good job actually renewing himself.

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07-17-2013, 07:21 AM
  #14
Ward Cornell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
That the positional change went better than expected reflects on Ovechkin and the lack of depth at RW in the NHL and the inability of the defensemen and systems to adapt to such a change quickly.
Is the general consensus that there's a lack of overall depth now due to more attention paid to systems and coaching than it was earlier in Bossy days and earlier?

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07-17-2013, 07:51 AM
  #15
Canadiens1958
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Adam Oates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
No. If they in fact found his secret out but then could not just do it mirrorwise too, i believe he's doing good job actually renewing himself.
Actually it is a tribute to Adam Oates who initiated the change.

On RW Alex Ovechkin carries the puck on his forehand so the puck is protected between his body and the boards. Checking forwards and defensemen have to go thru Ovechkin to get to the puck. On LW Alex Ovechkin carries the puck on his forehand exposed to the checkers and defensemen. Much easier to play defense against Ovechkin under LW circumstances.

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07-17-2013, 07:53 AM
  #16
tony d
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Mike Bossy.

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Old
07-17-2013, 07:56 AM
  #17
Canadiens1958
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Basic Hockey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ward Cornell View Post
Is the general consensus that there's a lack of overall depth now due to more attention paid to systems and coaching than it was earlier in Bossy days and earlier?
^^^ see the previous post. Hockey basics are getting lost in systems and are often misapplied by coaches who look for profound reasons where simple and basic hockey covers the situation.

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07-17-2013, 08:02 AM
  #18
Kyle McMahon
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Bossy's Hart record is naturally going to be weaker than Ovechkin's due to circumstance. Trottier and Potvin on his own team, so many great seasons where Bossy may have only been the third best guy on his own team. Ovechkin was clearly his team's best player in most seasons.

You can probably make the argument that Ovechkin is in the conversation with Bossy in the regular season. He's kind of fizzled out (laughable Hart Trophy this year aside), but Bossy's career ended early as well. Playoffs is no contest though. The gap is probably too big that Ovechkin is ever going to overcome it at this point.

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07-17-2013, 08:35 AM
  #19
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Bossy was the more accomplished hockey player, but Ovechkin is the greater talent. Time will tell where Ovechkin stacks against him.

I do think AO is getting a bit of a short thrift here though. Bossy was basically a top 5 forward for most of his career. Same with AO, but AO is in a deeper league overall due to competing against the best in the world, not just predominately the best in NA like Bossy did.

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07-17-2013, 08:48 AM
  #20
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Two really different players, completely different games. Bossy was a pure sniper, one whom is without many comparables. Brett Hull might be the closest and only other pure sniper who had great success, but even Hull wasn't close.

Ovechkin has been great at what he does, and is better in many ways than Bossy was.

Different eras, different games, different players. If you don't have a Trottier, a Bossy isn't much use. Ovechkin does so much on his own and creates.

Both special players, but I too pick Bossy.

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07-17-2013, 09:04 AM
  #21
Dissonance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Different eras, different games, different players. If you don't have a Trottier, a Bossy isn't much use. Ovechkin does so much on his own and creates.
Not sure that's right.

We got a pretty good sense of what Bossy could do without Trottier when they were split up in the 1984-85 season. Trottier dropped down to the second line and saw his numbers plummet, while Bossy didn't miss a beat--he even carried Brent Sutter to a 100-point season.

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07-17-2013, 09:42 AM
  #22
Dark Shadows
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Two really different players, completely different games. Bossy was a pure sniper, one whom is without many comparables. Brett Hull might be the closest and only other pure sniper who had great success, but even Hull wasn't close.

Ovechkin has been great at what he does, and is better in many ways than Bossy was.

Different eras, different games, different players. If you don't have a Trottier, a Bossy isn't much use. Ovechkin does so much on his own and creates.

Both special players, but I too pick Bossy.
You are kidding right?

Bossy flat out brought it every game.

Bossy always is last in discussions for Hart's and leadership because of his vocal stance against violence and fighting in the sport and his reluctance to get into scrums. Its ridiculous but true. he was passed over in drafts because he was "One Dimensional". By one Dimensional, they meant "Timid". Defensively, he was never bad to begin with, but it wasn't where he focused his game.

He unfairly gets labeled as a soft player when he was anything but. He would put himself into Harms way to get a clean shot off, and it wrecked havoc on his back.

The guy was a vocal leader on the Islanders squad and always extremely confident. He came into the league guaranteeing he would score 50 goals his first year and delivered. He did the same predicting he would hit 50 in 50. His boldness rubbed off to the team, just like Potvin's.

His 3 consecutive 17 goal playoffs are amazing.

Its amazing how underrated he is. When Trottier went down with an injury in 84-85 and was relegated to secondline duties because he was playing at half capacity most of the year, Bossy turned Tonelli and Sutter into 100 point players. Sutter never even broke 70 points in his career other than that year.

Underrated

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07-17-2013, 10:01 AM
  #23
Killion
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Quote:
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Underrated
Ya I agree. As mentioned earlier, I could see comparing Ovi to Bure, Mike Bossy to Phil Esposito or Brett Hull. Were dealing with really entirely different types of players in Ovechkin & Bossy, never mind even the disparities & differences in era's.

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07-17-2013, 10:07 AM
  #24
8 ovechstrom 19
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Bossy ainec

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07-17-2013, 11:10 AM
  #25
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Ovechkin: 3 Harts, 65 goal season in low scoring era, no playoff record
Bossy: a Conn Smythe, 4 Cups, exceptional playoff record

I also like to compare what they could actually do (which is what many people seem to disregard, blinded by stats), they both, while showing flashes of versatility, mostly relied on a particular skillset.

At this point Bossy has the upper hand but with 6-7 years more (and hopefully Cup) I can see this going to Ovy.

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