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Concern for Carlyle's biases against skill players?

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Old
07-19-2013, 09:23 AM
  #101
Beastly Bozak
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Originally Posted by The Legend View Post
Our first line centre brings "intangibles" to the table? Phenomenal.
But... He can win face offs?

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Old
07-19-2013, 09:39 AM
  #102
GordieHoweHatTrick
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Originally Posted by The Legend View Post
The Toronto Maple Leafs had 5 more points in the first 48 games of 2012/2013 than they had in the first 48 games of 2011/2012. It's extremely likely that a "sophomore Kadri, JvR, McClement and some journeymen" were responsible for that. James Reimer also had a save percentage of 0.924 in 2012/2013. It was 0.900 in 2011/2012. I assume that could possibly affect the results as well.
I'm very sorry that the facts don't fit your narrative.
You're right, Reimer's save % did increase when the Maple Leafs implemented a new system under Carlyle.

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07-19-2013, 09:46 AM
  #103
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Carlyle really seemed to hate those skilled players Selanne/Niedermayer/McDonald/Fowler/etc in Anaheim...

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07-19-2013, 09:48 AM
  #104
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Grabby forced himself out of his Top 6 role.

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07-19-2013, 09:55 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by The Legend View Post
Not sure who "Nazeem" is but I have no clue what kind of development Gardiner gained from not playing Game 1 against the Bruins.
You couldn't figure out a spelling mistake? Not surprising you have no clue as to why Gardiner was not played during game 1 then.

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07-19-2013, 09:56 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by The Legend View Post
Not sure who "Nazeem" is but I have no clue what kind of development Gardiner gained from not playing Game 1 against the Bruins.
Maybe it made him hungrier. Why are you nitpicking, he played great when he was put in.

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07-19-2013, 09:59 AM
  #107
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Carlyle has no bias... He just makes players earn their ice time, and wants you to give it your all whether you're a "skill player" or not. Grabo had all the opportunities in the world and played himself out of that 2C spot... We tried him with a plethora of wingers and he couldn't produce with anyone... Where else would you have put him?

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07-19-2013, 10:34 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by dballislife2 View Post
skill - kessel, kadri, lupul
size - jvr, kulemin
toughness - clarkson, bolland
intangibles - bozak, mcclement

our top 9 gots it all...thats what u need to win
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Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
There is no few years, he went all in between Bozak, Clarkson and Bernier. It depleted our cap space, that's all in especially looking at the contracts.

Bozak 4.25 not moveable

Clarkson 5.25 if he doesn't perform not move able

Bernier perhaps but we need to see.

Bolland rental

This is pretty much it he didn't address the D or the C in a major way. They don't make it they are both probably gone, Carlyle and Nonis.
Hmmm, let me see, which of these posts is written from the perspective of a Leafs fan? And, may I add, which is the more perceptive about this Leafs team going forward?

Come on dude, stop with the negativity. This Leaf team got much better this offseason and I can't wait to see what Carlyle will do with the acquisitions and a full training camp. We are a team that's better equipped to play well night in and night out and we're going to get the most of the players we have. Is it enough for a Stanley Cup? Not yet, but it is enough for a playoff berth, and then anything can happen.

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07-19-2013, 11:12 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
You're right, Reimer's save % did increase when the Maple Leafs implemented a new system under Carlyle.
Please tell me you don't actually believe that his save percentage increased because of Carlyle's system?

And convenient that you completely ignored the part where the 5 point increase can be explained by Kadri, McClement and JVR

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07-19-2013, 11:13 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by egd27 View Post
You couldn't figure out a spelling mistake? Not surprising you have no clue as to why Gardiner was not played during game 1 then.
So how about that new thing called sarcasm....

As for Gardiner, you're right; I have no clue why he wasn't played in Game 1. Care to enlighten me?

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Old
07-19-2013, 11:30 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by P0LiUM View Post
Oh, I'm not going to go too crazy and track down all the detailed stats for the games. I just remember watching those games and thinking "gee, if Remier was playing any worse we probably wouldn't have won this."

You're right: its very possible there weren't a lot of great scoring chances on those shots. I still don't think a team is playing very well if they're being outshot almost 2-1.
Completely agree. Reimer gets **** on for game 7 way too hard. He got us into the playoffs this year. Not Carlyle.

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Old
07-19-2013, 11:31 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Just because the Leafs made the playoffs last season, doesn't mean that all of Carlyle's decisions were the right ones, and it most certainly does not absolve him from criticism.
you are correct.

but it also doesn't mean people can make up things to criticism him about either. (see original post for example)

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07-19-2013, 11:36 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Suntouchable13 View Post
I just get the vibe about him that he plays the skilled guys reluctantly. He would play a guy like Orr 20 minutes a night if he could get away with it.
god, what are you talking about?

he's never given any indication of your second statement and your first isn't worth a used kleenex

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07-19-2013, 12:45 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Avec Fromage View Post
Randy Carlyle is a good coach in most respects, but some of his line up decisions are head scratchers: forcing Grabovski into a pure shutdown role, scratching Gardiner and Frattin, playing Kostka and Holzer on the top pairing while more capable players sat out.

His insistence of assigning players' positions based solely on handedness can be unnerving. He forced Lupul onto the third line in Anaheim instead of trying him on the off-wing. Lupul exploded once he hit Toronto and had top-six minutes. Grabovski and Gardiner similarly played very well with bigger roles in the playoffs.

Wilson may have experimented too much, but Carlyle seems a little too hardheaded.
If Randy gets the team to the playoffs consistently he can be biased against anybody he wants. He can sit Kadri, Gardiner, and any other player he wants in the press box all season for all I care and replace them with Kostkas and Hamiltons if it wins for us. I care about winning. I do not care about giving opportunities to players or getting the most out of somebody`s potential. I want the Leafs to win.

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Old
07-19-2013, 08:35 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by The Legend View Post
So how about that new thing called sarcasm....

As for Gardiner, you're right; I have no clue why he wasn't played in Game 1. Care to enlighten me?
He wasn't playing that well in the previous few games. I know objectivity regarding Jake is not well received around here but he was actually pretty poor defensively.

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07-19-2013, 09:00 PM
  #116
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Carlyle did alot of things wrong last season, but he did alot of things right too. I just hope that he learns from his mistakes. Like If i see Kessel in a checking role next year, I'm gona flip it, or Ahler Scrubs playing ahead of Gardiner, I'm gone.

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07-19-2013, 09:06 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Mike1 View Post
Nobody has won a Stanley Cup with a team of goons & 3rd liners....
You might want to look up the Broad Street Bullies. While not made up of 3rd liners, they were certainly goons and they won the Cup - twice.

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07-19-2013, 11:28 PM
  #118
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You might want to look up the Broad Street Bullies. While not made up of 3rd liners, they were certainly goons and they won the Cup - twice.
Does anyone have an idea how many teams were in the league when Philadelphia last won the cup? Or what year it was?

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07-19-2013, 11:47 PM
  #119
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Does anyone have an idea how many teams were in the league when Philadelphia last won the cup? Or what year it was?
Philadelphia was an expansion team. Besides, talent was a lot more concentrated then than now. What makes our "third liners" different from the Flyers is that their third line were full of nasty grinders.

Their ability to destroy the opposition in the defensive zone was elite. I guess our fourth line could do that if McLaren and Orr further develop their defensive game. Our "third line" is supposed to be more of a skilled line especially considering that Bolland was largely playing with skilled guys like Kane.

PS: The Flyers top six were mean as well.

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07-20-2013, 07:01 AM
  #120
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Lots of complaining going towards a coach that got Toronto into the playoffs.
he has to make the playoffs this year or hes gone ..right now on paper it looks like one of toronto .or montreal might be on the hotseat ...we added detroit and philly is a ton better ,this might not be pretty so u might see more than bias ..it might sheer bold moves ....dont look for many young guys play much at all ....

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07-20-2013, 09:19 AM
  #121
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Phil Kessel's playoff stats would have been 0-0-0 points if not for Randy Carlyle and getting him away from Chara and Bergeron at each and every opportunity.

It was extreme coaching that favoured Leafs most skilled forward.

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07-20-2013, 09:48 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by hullsy47 View Post
he has to make the playoffs this year or hes gone ..right now on paper it looks like one of toronto .or montreal might be on the hotseat ...we added detroit and philly is a ton better ,this might not be pretty so u might see more than bias ..it might sheer bold moves ....dont look for many young guys play much at all ....
How is Philly a ton better? their starting G is Steve Mason. They're going nowhere with him. Even the Jackets are better than them. The Isles and Rangers didn't improve their teams and both finished behind the Leafs last season.

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07-20-2013, 10:03 AM
  #123
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How is Philly a ton better? their starting G is Steve Mason. They're going nowhere with him. Even the Jackets are better than them. The Isles and Rangers didn't improve their teams and both finished behind the Leafs last season.
Remember - that was over a 48 game season. Over 82 games, I expect the islanders to be better than us. Not sure about Philly or the Rangers.

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07-20-2013, 10:03 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Avec Fromage View Post
Randy Carlyle is a good coach in most respects, but some of his line up decisions are head scratchers: forcing Grabovski into a pure shutdown role, scratching Gardiner and Frattin, playing Kostka and Holzer on the top pairing while more capable players sat out.

His insistence of assigning players' positions based solely on handedness can be unnerving. He forced Lupul onto the third line in Anaheim instead of trying him on the off-wing. Lupul exploded once he hit Toronto and had top-six minutes. Grabovski and Gardiner similarly played very well with bigger roles in the playoffs.

Wilson may have experimented too much, but Carlyle seems a little too hardheaded.
If you're the best option to help this team win, you play... That's how Carlyle coaches. Grabovksi was not that option and neither was Gardiner. When JG became that, he was inserted into the lineup.

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07-20-2013, 10:42 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by The Legend View Post
Remember - that was over a 48 game season. Over 82 games, I expect the islanders to be better than us. Not sure about Philly or the Rangers.
I'm curious, on what basis do you think the Isles are going to finish ahead of us? They're not better than us in goal (Nabokov vs Reimer/Bernier) or even on defence. Their top 6 don't match up with ours. Our 3rd shutdown line is better than anything they can throw out there. We're going to be a grittier team than they are. So how are they going to be better over 82 games?

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