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Kessel and Phaneuf's raise

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Old
07-17-2013, 02:43 PM
  #76
Deebo
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Originally Posted by buntek View Post
If Phaneuf gets 7 mill I'm going barf.
Get your puke bucket ready.

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07-17-2013, 02:46 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Bergeron is one damn expensive 60pt player, is what he is.
What about all the faceoffs he wins and penalties he kills and his leadership and other intangibles in addition to the 60 points?.

When Bergeron isn't scoring he is still doing a lot of things that any successful team needs in order to win, like winning the Selke for his play with and without the puck.

What does Kessel bring to the table outside of his 80 points? When Phil isn't on the scoresheet what does he bring to the table that would compare to Bergeron's contributions?.

Some people only see points and nothing else seems to be of any real importance towards a winning team.

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07-17-2013, 02:48 PM
  #78
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Bergeron's a very good player, and I won't say he's overpaid.

But he's definitely not on any bargain deal.

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07-17-2013, 02:48 PM
  #79
Joey Hoser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
What about all the faceoffs he wins and penalties he kills and his leadership and other intangibles in addition to the 60 points?.

When Bergeron isn't scoring he is still doing a lot of things that any successful team needs in order to win, like winning the Selke for his play with and without the puck.

What does Kessel bring to the table outside of his 80 points? When Phil isn't on the scoresheet what does he bring to the table that would compare to Bergeron's contributions?.

Some people only see points and nothing else seems to be of any real importance towards a winning team.
Generating 20 more goals for over the course of the season at least evens out with faceoffs and PK work IMO.

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07-17-2013, 02:58 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
What about all the faceoffs he wins and penalties he kills and his leadership and other intangibles in addition to the 60 points?.

When Bergeron isn't scoring he is still doing a lot of things that any successful team needs in order to win, like winning the Selke for his play with and without the puck.

What does Kessel bring to the table outside of his 80 points? When Phil isn't on the scoresheet what does he bring to the table that would compare to Bergeron's contributions?.

Some people only see points and nothing else seems to be of any real importance towards a winning team.
How much of a discount do you feel Bergeron gave by this selfless act? Was Rask selfless as well?

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07-17-2013, 03:06 PM
  #81
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I don't think Phaneuf will get a raise but I expect him to be in the 6 range as well on a long term deal. I think Kessel will be looking for 7. Let's hope at least one takes a discount though.

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07-17-2013, 03:23 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by korndog81 View Post
You'd think players would take a paycut if they truly want to win the cup. That's what I never understood about why players get so greedy to play a game. If I was an allstar player give me like 2 million with a NMC, NTC and i'd be happy.
Would you really do this? Because lets compare it to the real work place.

If at work you found out that the other person doing the same job as you
was a real screw up and you found out they were making a lot more money than you
I'm sure you would be pissed and want more money and if you didnt get it you would slack off just like the other guy.

But an all star NHL'er should work for less than other players on the team because they shouldnt be greedy. Doesnt make sense.

If Phil see's claarkson making 5.2 then he should sign for less so not to look so greedy. If GM's want to pay the players then they are certainly going to accept it.

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07-17-2013, 03:27 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraSphere View Post
How does detroit get players like Kronwall to sign for 4.75 and players like zetterberg to 6 mill -.-"

Kronwall is the most comparable to Phaneuf imo, and it sucks knowing we're gonna be paying 7 mill for a type of guy detroit is paying 4.75 mill
kronwall been in the league for 7 years - 54 G 192A - 246Points
Dion 9 years 106G 234A 340P

not even close


Last edited by notdoneyet: 07-17-2013 at 03:28 PM. Reason: finish points for dion
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Old
07-17-2013, 03:29 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by notdoneyet View Post
If at work you found out that the other person doing the same job as you
In most real jobs ensuring your own financial well-being is the goal, and it's only sort of tied to the success of the company as an enabler.

Playing hockey is different. If playing pro hockey is just about making a living to a guy, then fair enough, but it usually means a lot more than that to the players who've put their lives into it and have dreamed of championships.

Expecting a superstar to be happy with 2 million is stretching it though, certainly.

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07-17-2013, 03:30 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Perry, Getzalf, Crosby and Malkin have Stanley Cup rings and major awards and trophies on their resumes and have proven to be key components of a Cup winning team. No question their contracts impact the team, but you're paying proven winners also. .But their new contracts have consequences (aka Bobby Ryan) in Anaheim making future Cups more difficult to obtain as a result of weakening the team to keep the stars.

What have Phaneuf and Kessel proven, other than being malcontents that were traded away from their drafted teams in the past, and with little to no team success to back them up now heading into negotiations?.

Paying them more money isn't going to make the Leafs better simply by paying them more to do what they did in the past for less, and it has an adverse effect on the team due to the salary cap and its competitiveness.

Nonis is now deciding if they're the players you build a winning championship team around.. How much he is willing to pay them to stay to do so, or if trading them again is in the best interest of the team and its cup aspirations.

Washington invested big $$ in winger OV, but what has it gotten them for all their financial commitment? Diddly squat and hopefully Leafs are not going down that similar road of high priced players and limited team success the net result.
You heard it here first, everyone.

If you win a cup, you can go from TEAM first to ME first and it's perfectly alright. Guys like Malkin, Crosby, Getzlaf and Perry aren't concerned about winning more cups which is why they signed such big money deals.

If you haven't won a cup, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT ASKING FOR MARKET VALUE.

Ovechkin is a ME first player who signed for market value and is therefore grossly overpaid despite winning 3 of the last 6 Hart trophies.



Glad that's all cleared up now.

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Old
07-17-2013, 03:38 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Those are my official guess-timates as well.

A lot of people say Phaneuf is overpaid, but I think if anything he's due for a raise.
You've just thrown your credibility away, shame I thought you had some potential of thinking out side the Box.

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07-17-2013, 03:40 PM
  #87
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Give Dion 6.5-7.5 over 7 years. Give Phil 7-8 over 8 years.

Lock it up.

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07-17-2013, 03:44 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by WTFMAN99 View Post
I think Kessel is 7.5-8 mill on an 8 year deal.

Phaneuf should be 6-6.5 on an 8 year deal.

I am hoping for 7.5 mill and 6 mill respectively.
I doubt it would happen but maybe Nonis could pull the captain, hometown discount, best for the team going forward crap with Phanuef and sign him for 8 years @5 mil per.

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07-17-2013, 03:45 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Kessley Snipes View Post
Give Dion 6.5-7.5 over 7 years. Give Phil 7-8 over 8 years.

Lock it up.
We sign Dion for 8. Its our best bargaining chip to stop him going to UFA.

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07-17-2013, 03:52 PM
  #90
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Dion will probably hit 6.8m over 7-8 years, Phil 7.5m(I feel like he'll hold out for a bit more).

we can afford it though with those buyouts coming off the books and the cap hit going way up.

I dont mind as long as the cap keeps going up and it doesnt affect our other signings, Seriously, both guys are very high end players so if they are overpaid slightly it really doesnt matter.

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07-17-2013, 04:03 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by dominicmoore19 View Post
Phaneuf should be making 4.5-5 mill, AT MOST! Anything more is money wasted.


this pretty much means you Know nothing about hockey.

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07-17-2013, 04:12 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notdoneyet View Post
kronwall been in the league for 7 years - 54 G 192A - 246Points
Dion 9 years 106G 234A 340P

not even close
Exactly. Also look at the circumstances when they signed their respective deals, and the circumstance when Dion signs his next deal.

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07-17-2013, 04:16 PM
  #93
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You guys do realize that take home salary after lawyers, agents, taxes, etc is about 50% for the player? So when Clarkson signs for 5.2 he is only taking home 2.6. Im just saying, as much as millions of dollars make us all envious, these guys are trying to cash in as much as they can like anyone would. There is a big difference than 25 million in career earnings (5mil salary a year for 10 years x 50%) and 40 mil in career earnings (8 mil a year for 10 years x 50%). Both are well off, but 40 mil leaves you with alot more flexibility financially. Scale it down, would you rather make 500k in 10 years or 800k?

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07-17-2013, 05:36 PM
  #94
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Sorry if this has been mentioned already.

Kessel taking a 7.5M/year max contract with the leafs would equate to roughly 8.5M/year max contract on the open market (8 years vs. 7 years). If the leafs offer him 7.5M a year, he would need to look for 8.5M a year on the open market to get the same value the leafs could offer (assuming he's looking to get paid and doesn't care where he plays). Once Kessel's value on the open market reaches its limit (which I don't see going past 8.5M), I think he would probably accept a max contract offer with the leafs at less per year salary (7.5M) which guarantees a payout for one extra year.

I dunno if this makes sense haha.

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07-17-2013, 05:44 PM
  #95
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These so-called arm-chair GMs are being stingy with Phaneuf and yet want to desperately resign peripheral players. We simply do not have a prospect in our system ( including Rielly) that could replace him. He is an all-round elite defenceman and we're better off keeping even if he happens to be rare.

Likewise, Kessel is a lot more important than Bergeron. He is being complimented by a lot of major characters (in goal, Chara, etc) as well. Heck Lucic has a $6 million cap so I'm not surprised if he's worth $2 million more.

PS: Mess, you're ignoring Bergeron's concussion history.

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07-17-2013, 05:57 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
What about all the faceoffs he wins and penalties he kills and his leadership and other intangibles in addition to the 60 points?.

When Bergeron isn't scoring he is still doing a lot of things that any successful team needs in order to win, like winning the Selke for his play with and without the puck.

What does Kessel bring to the table outside of his 80 points? When Phil isn't on the scoresheet what does he bring to the table that would compare to Bergeron's contributions?.

Some people only see points and nothing else seems to be of any real importance towards a winning team.
This. Ppg wingers are everywhere. You can get them in the 3rd round. There is abundance of them in free agency as well. Imo kessels 80 points are nice but no way in hell does a dynamic scorer like Kessel compare to a 2-way all star like bergy.




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07-17-2013, 06:03 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by korndog81 View Post
You'd think players would take a paycut if they truly want to win the cup. That's what I never understood about why players get so greedy to play a game. If I was an allstar player give me like 2 million with a NMC, NTC and i'd be happy.
Yeah, I'm sure the NHLPA would LOVE if Kessel signed for $2 mil a year.

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Old
07-17-2013, 06:04 PM
  #98
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my goodness, it seems intangibles apply to players as long as they're not on the Leafs.

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07-17-2013, 06:15 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Kessley Snipes View Post
Give Dion 6.5-7.5 over 7 years. Give Phil 7-8 over 8 years.

Lock it up.
Ouch i don't know about that.

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07-17-2013, 06:25 PM
  #100
Kessley Snipes
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Originally Posted by DeathToAllButMetal View Post
Enough rumours have floated around about Phaneuf being on the market this offseason that I wouldn't be surprised if Nonis either traded him or lowballed him on a contract. I don't think Nonis has anywhere near the same commitment to Phaneuf as Burke did. And with good reason. Anyone who really looks at what Phaneuf brings to the table sees just how dumb he is, how little compete level he shows when battling for the puck, the idiotic shooting decisions on the PP, etc. No way should he eat up $6M or more of cap space.

Never been a fan, never will be a fan. That playoff pinch sealed it for me forever. He's a thud who's never going to get smarter or properly fill the role that was unfairly given to him with the Leafs.
Obvious hatred is obvious. Dion is a top 15 D man in the NHL.

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