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Teams that play a lot of rookies tend to lose a lot of games

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Old
07-17-2013, 07:19 PM
  #126
SLarmer28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayzinSmith View Post
Back on topic, here's another team w/ 4-5 rookies that did all right:

1985-86 Montreal Canadiens

Mike Lalor, 22
Claude Lemieux, 20
Stephane Richer, 19
Patrick Roy, 20
Brian Skrudland, 22
Now compare the ages to the potential 2013-14 Chicago Blackhawks players:

Hayes, 23
Leblanc, 24
Morin, 22
Pirri, 22
Smith, 25
Stanton, 24

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07-17-2013, 07:22 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by SLarmer28 View Post
Dan Carcillo was shipped out for increased salary cap flexibility. Besides, Dan Carcillo has not been the same player since post ACL surgery.
Agreed, and since they shipped him out, they now have more flexibility for Danault to make the team.

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07-17-2013, 07:39 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayzinSmith View Post
Back on topic, here's another team w/ 4-5 rookies that did all right:

1985-86 Montreal Canadiens

Mike Lalor, 22
Claude Lemieux, 20
Stephane Richer, 19
Patrick Roy, 20
Brian Skrudland, 22
If one of the Hawks rookies wins the Conm Smythe, I agree they'll be fine playing a bunch of rookies.

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07-17-2013, 07:45 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Its related to all the talk about Froliks PK role being replaced. If he makes the team, I think he would fill it quite admirably.
No, I didn't mean that way.. I meant I don't think Carcillo being moved is related to anything Danault did at the prospect camp.

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07-17-2013, 07:47 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
If one of the Hawks rookies wins the Conm Smythe, I agree they'll be fine playing a bunch of rookies.
Well they don't need one of their rookies to...

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07-17-2013, 07:56 PM
  #131
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It's a annual occurrence here with line ups. I've seen it the past few years. Smith, Skille, Dowell, Hayes, Morin, Pirri..... will fill in for X. Not going to happen. Saad had a strong 1st year but he really struggled in the point department given his line mates, so much that he was bumped come playoff time. Heck after the last cup run Beach was always penciled in to replace Buff.

Hawks could use another Vet forward on the team.

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Originally Posted by LBS8844 View Post
Bickell is the complete package. Please don't think for a second otherwise. The Blackhawks didn't immediately trade away key competitors in order to resign Bickell because they were wrong. Expect 25 goals and 55 points this season.
Love the confidence but I don't think that's going to happen.

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07-17-2013, 08:22 PM
  #132
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The fact of the matter is that the Hawks need to see what they have with some of these ELC's. The way to win in a cap world is to find value in ELC's and RFA contracts. 4 slots to evaluate isn't that big of a deal, especially when the whole defense from last season is returning. It's easier to take chances on forwards than it is on defensmen.

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07-17-2013, 08:34 PM
  #133
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Considering the production of the fourth line for the Chicago Blackhawks during the 2012-13 NHL season, I don't see the problem of playing a "rookie" winger:

2012-13 NHL Season (48 game schedule)

Kruger - 4 goals
Frolik - 3 goals
Carcillo - 2 goals
Bollig - 0 goals

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/CHI/2013.html

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07-17-2013, 08:35 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by LBS8844 View Post
Bickell is the complete package. Please don't think for a second otherwise. The Blackhawks didn't immediately trade away key competitors in order to resign Bickell because they were wrong. Expect 25 goals and 55 points this season.
They didn't.

...and I don't think there's a chance that a guy who has never hit .50 ppg will put up 55 points next year...he will not last in the top 6 on a consistent basis. But we will find out soon enough.

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07-17-2013, 08:37 PM
  #135
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The thing about Bickell is that it's 100% up to him. If he plays at half the level he showed in the playoffs, he'll have a quality season next year. It's up to him to bring that compete level, and to bring it on most nights.

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07-17-2013, 08:59 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
If one of the Hawks rookies wins the Conm Smythe, I agree they'll be fine playing a bunch of rookies.
The Chicago Blackhawks don't need a rookie goaltender to win the Conn Smythe.

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07-17-2013, 09:24 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
They didn't.

...and I don't think there's a chance that a guy who has never hit .50 ppg will put up 55 points next year...he will not last in the top 6 on a consistent basis. But we will find out soon enough.
He hit .74 PPG in the playoffs against enhanced competition. Small sample size, sure. Was enough for the Hawks to commit major money on a longer-term deal. Seen 'em come and go; this kid can flat out play. He'll be cemented in the top 6 for years to come...not because I want him to be, but because Q will be obligated to play him there based solely on his game, and he'll prosper as a direct result.

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07-17-2013, 10:06 PM
  #138
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There are 8 veteran no-doubt starters - Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Bickell, Saad, Shaw, Kruger. The defense is set with 6 veteran starters and the 7th d-man is a veteran too. Handzus and Bollig will probably get at least 82 starts between them, so really there is room for 3 rookie starters - not 4 or 5. That's still probably one of two more than ideal, but with the quality veteran starters, the rookies can be sheltered a lot and by the end of the season won't really be rookies anymore.

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07-17-2013, 10:07 PM
  #139
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Trying to figure out what this thread is about.

Illini is complaining about drop off?

well it isn't 4 rookies this year, I see 3 slots kids can fill. And it is not like they are 18-19 year old kids, as posted. Most are 3 year pros.

I have had an email thread going about this. Can we win again with 3 rookies in the playoffs. This thread has posters saying 4, but I don't get there.

Last year we had 2.5. Shaw at .5 since he tasted the PHX series before suspended. Saad and stalberg who plays like a rookie anyway.

So we had non great 1st year in playoff grind guys already. 3 of them.

So next year Stalberg-shaw-saad, who are now all "playoff vets" we get (hopefully) Pirri, Morin, smith. And smith is almost half a vet since he has had more than 1 playoff year of taste.

So what is everyone crying about exactly?

Shaw was like Smith IS.
Saad was like Pirri IS.
Stalberg (stinks) was like Morin is.

So I don't get it. Call me names now for being confused.

Can we win it next year with 3 slots filled up by 1st year playoff guys. Sure, of course.

BUT, that means 19 is going to have to point more. His PPG is going to have to go up and a larger % of scoring from them.

But really as others have posted
Bolland = 3 goals
Frolik = ?
Stal = 0 i think

So even with the loss of production, can't, even if you are a playoff noob, TOTAL NOOB, still get 1 or 2?

Anyway, I am just confused by this thread. I think we will be a worse reg season team than playoff team.

This is all about how many kids fill a slot and fit right in, like Saad.

If ZERO kids fit like a glove, we won't be the #1 seed.
If ONE kid fits into a role and does well we contend for #1 seed all year and are again favs.
If TWO kids fit in well and we roll lines LOOK OUT, #1 seed and heavy favs.
If PIRRI can be a #2C and keep it all year, meaning he is doing well, we will be the #1 seed again and a HUGE threat.

So again, we lost no big pieces and we had rookies already to playoffs last year. This coming year we will prob have 1 more rookie than last year, at 3 total versus 2.

So we WILL NOT BE playing "A LOT" of rookies and NOT loosing many more games, to stick with the thread title.

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Old
07-17-2013, 10:15 PM
  #140
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i don't see how you can say that - bickell doesn't have anywhere close to ladd's skill.
I disagree. Bickell is a better skater and has a better shot than Ladd. Ladd is a more physical player in all aspects - consistency, hitting, grinding, dropping the gloves.

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07-17-2013, 10:25 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post

Love the confidence but I don't think that's going to happen.
Why can't Bickell get 25g/55pts? If he plays top line with either Toews and Kane or Toews and Hossa - it would be a disappointment if he didn't put up 25/55. He had 17/37 in 2010/11 playing on the 3rd line.

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07-17-2013, 10:41 PM
  #142
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2010-11 NHL Season

Hits (Defensive Statistics)
Bickell - 178
Ladd - 68

2011-12 NHL Season

Hits (Defensive Statistics)
Bickell - 128
Ladd - 76

2012-13 NHL Season

Hits (Defensive Statistics)
Bickell - 108
Ladd - 98

Let's not confuse Andrew Ladd with ex-Blackhawk Tuomo Ruutu in the physical department.

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07-17-2013, 10:44 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLarmer28 View Post
2010-11 NHL Season

Hits (Defensive Statistics)
Bickell - 178
Ladd - 68

2011-12 NHL Season

Hits (Defensive Statistics)
Bickell - 128
Ladd - 76

2012-13 NHL Season

Hits (Defensive Statistics)
Bickell - 108
Ladd - 98

Let's not confuse Andrew Ladd with ex-Blackhawk Tuomo Ruutu in the physical department.
Agree completely. Kinda funny though, the numbers show opposite trajectories.

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07-17-2013, 10:49 PM
  #144
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Who says Bryan Bickell can't be physical?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...tssPlayerStats

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07-17-2013, 10:51 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by LBS8844 View Post
Agree completely. Kinda funny though, the numbers show opposite trajectories.
Negative! Andrew Ladd decided to grow a set during the 2012-13 NHL Season.

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07-17-2013, 10:54 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by SLarmer28 View Post
Negative! Andrew Ladd decided to grow a set during the 2012-13 NHL Season.
My bet would be the gap begins to widen again moving forward. Bicks is a b*tch. Just wait until he learns to bring every facet of his game every night. The time ain't too far off.


Last edited by LBS8844: 07-17-2013 at 11:02 PM.
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Old
07-17-2013, 11:06 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by EbonyRaptor View Post
That's still probably one of two more than ideal, but with the quality veteran starters, the rookies can be sheltered a lot and by the end of the season won't really be rookies anymore.
How did all those quality veterans starters acquired by the trade deadline do for the Pittsburgh Penguins:

Jarome Iginla
Brenden Morrow
Douglas Murray
Jussi Jokinen

Huh?

2 goals, 4 games

Swept! Embarrassed! Humiliated!

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07-17-2013, 11:32 PM
  #148
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I was going to start a new thread on this but decided that this would be better.

My thought is that we should be preparing for two or three years from now this year. Don't feel the need to go for it all because everyone is cup drunk. So here is how my new thread was going to be posed...

Does anyone have a problem with seeing this year as a development year? It is pretty clear that this team will not fail to make the playoffs in the next few years. So why not use more prospects as opposed to having cheap vets take up those roster spots? Its not like 20 year olds are being thrown into the fire, there are plenty of 21+ year old prospects waiting to make it and its not like this team is without its share of veterans. This team will be competitive Top 5 in the League just because of our core and unlike the post 2010 Cup our prospects seem ready.

When the 2014-15 season rolls around we have young players with a full year of experience and if that season doesn't go so well then we have proven (or we've weeded through the busts) NHL players for the season after. There is only one way a player can truly prove himself because no matter what scoring titles they have in the AHL or league MVPs in Europe they have to prove it in the NHL.

inb4 I am not asking for the season to be thrown away but for a greater number worthy prospects to be given their fair share of playing time even through some struggle.

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07-17-2013, 11:56 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Espies333s View Post
I was going to start a new thread on this but decided that this would be better.

My thought is that we should be preparing for two or three years from now this year. Don't feel the need to go for it all because everyone is cup drunk. So here is how my new thread was going to be posed...

Does anyone have a problem with seeing this year as a development year?
The Chicago Blackhawks are returning all seven defenseman from last season and the starting goaltender. The Chicago Blackhawks signed a 40 year old veteran backup goaltender.

The AHL is the league for prospect development. The Chicago Blackhawks can afford to ripen prospects down in Rockford while still maintain salary cap compliance during the 2013-14 NHL Season. The Chicago Blackhawks have four prospects who have acquired three years AHL experience:

Morin, 22 years old
Pirri, 22 years old
Smith, 25 years old
Stanton, 24 years old

Ben Smith and Ryan Stanton lose their waiver exemption status this season. Either Smith or Stanton make the 23 man roster this season or the Chicago Blackhawks risk losing them to waivers.

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07-18-2013, 12:24 AM
  #150
EbonyRaptor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLarmer28 View Post
How did all those quality veterans starters acquired by the trade deadline do for the Pittsburgh Penguins:

Jarome Iginla
Brenden Morrow
Douglas Murray
Jussi Jokinen

Huh?

2 goals, 4 games

Swept! Embarrassed! Humiliated!
The veterans I was referring to for next season are Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Bickell, Saad, Shaw, Kruger, Handzus, Bollig and all the d-men - not some veterans that will be picked up at the TDL.

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