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2013 Offseason roster build thread part Additional Nauseum

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Old
08-26-2013, 09:41 PM
  #576
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Until he is actually traded, ill hold out hope for Pegula and Regier to work their magic and get Vanek extended long term. It might take 10+ years for Regier to acquire a 35+ goal scorer to replace Vaneks goal scoring ability. I see Grigorenko as more of a playmaker, a 25-40-65 guy and I think Armia will top out at 25-30 goals a season.

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08-27-2013, 06:48 AM
  #577
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
I agree that that's what he thinks he's doing. But, e.g., if he had traded Vanek prior to last season and we had Barkov instead of Risto for it, we'd be in a better position today. There's value lost by not moving players, and that's the value I'm worried isn't being properly accounted for.
I agree there.

I wish he would have moved Vanek and Miller at the deadline last year from that POV.

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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
There's also the question of whether the market is as strong as Darcy wants it to be. Rumors were for a long time that Roy was being shopped. I doubt Darcy got what he had pegged Roy's value at initially. And I expect we might have gotten more if he'd moved sooner.
I think there is a strong chance that he felt that he HAD to move Roy for chemistry reasons and he doesn't view Vanek in the same manner.

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08-27-2013, 08:37 AM
  #578
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For the purpose of this discussion, I agree. And it will change with each season as some players drop off, and some move on.


Which is it, top-20-in-NHL talent, or best players they can? Sorry - I know you're not arguing against yourself. But surely, each team in the NHL is trying to get the best players they can, and with the hope some of them emerge to be top-20 talent...

I'll agree with that.

==============
I wrote this earlier - maybe I'm just in a snarly mood, but here's my summary / interpretation:

1. Hypothesis (point to be proven): Probability of Cup championship increases substantially when team has 1 or more top-20 NHL talents on its roster.

2. Converse argument (and logical inference from #1): The probability of Cup championship is unacceptably low when a team lacks 1 or more top-20 NHL talents.

3. Corrollary (logical inference from #1,2): Any talent acquisition strategy which doesn't guarantee top-20 talent acquisition every 4-5 years (operating on the assumption a top-20 talent has a peak-performance window of 4-5 years when he will be a top-20 talent) will not lead to a high probability of a Cup.

4. Implicit assumption (from #3): One can a priori foreknow if any/all acquired talent (Draft, Trade, UFA) is either immediately a top-20 NHL talent, or will be such a talent in a future window (for talent requiring time to develop to top-20 peak).

5. Implicit assumption (from #1, #4): 29 other teams covet top-20 talent as eagerly as espoused in #1, yet are willing to release that talent through trade or by failing to resign a UFA.

IMO, when examined critically, the whole thing unravels.

Assume the vast majority of top-20 talents are on the 16 playoff-qualifying teams (the argument still holds if there are exceptions - a talent on a bottom-feeder). There still remains a dozen or so teams with top-20 talent, year after year, who fail to win the Cup. Does not support the hypothesis in #1 as I wrote it.

Or, consider the case of Edmonton. Given their recent drafts, do they have the potential for 1 or more top-20 talents on their roster, if they wait a few years? Is patience no longer a virtue? Should they try to trade them all now for Crosby or Stamkos? (This is the reductio ad absurdum argument.)



It seems the "maximizing the odds" premise is that one Team/GM can foreknow either the current eliteness (UFAs, Trades) or future eliteness (draft picks) of any individual player, while simultaneously controlling the actions of other teams attempting to acquire the same elite talent. While I will not invoke a random luck counterargument, and I'm rusty on my comparative religions, the above view I paraphrased seems like the hockey equivalent of Calvinistic double predestination.

Or, in the words of the late Johnnie Cochran, "it does not make sense".
I disagree that your corollary is a logical inference. You made up this part about having to "guarantee" success. If I were to make this leap myself, I could use it to undress absolutely any team building strategy, because nothing can be guaranteed - not that Grigorenko stays in the NHL, not that Thomas Vanek scores 10 goals, nothing.

It's also painful how you twist "maximizing the odds" to mean another form of "guarantee" or "foreknowledge" in your last paragraph, when it is opposed by its very terms.

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08-27-2013, 12:21 PM
  #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
I disagree that your corollary is a logical inference. You made up this part about having to "guarantee" success. If I were to make this leap myself, I could use it to undress absolutely any team building strategy, because nothing can be guaranteed - not that Grigorenko stays in the NHL, not that Thomas Vanek scores 10 goals, nothing.
I agree. You're right. In the context I used it, "guarantee" should not be used there, but I also believe removing the word doesn't dilute the point.

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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
It's also painful how you twist "maximizing the odds" to mean another form of "guarantee" or "foreknowledge" in your last paragraph, when it is opposed by its very terms.
Fair enough. But it's a reaction your observation / belief the Sabres strategy is to acquire (only) mediocre mid-level talent, (vs. your prefered strategy to acquire 1 or more top-20 talents), which you later softened to "elite" talents.

The inference is either:
A) BUF's strategy is not to acquire elite talent (i.e., settling for mediocre mid-level talent).
OR
B) BUF's strategy is indeed to acquire elite talent, yet they are incapable/unwilling (or both) to take the actions necessary to acquire elite talent, yet the vast majority of the (recent) Cup champions are capable/willing to take such actions, and (by default) those actions had a clear causal effect on their Cup win(s).

I guess Sabresfansince1980 summarized it succinctly without all the wordiness I used (which I apologize for).

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Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
I certainly understand the desire to acquire a Crosby/Tavares/Malkin/Kane/Hall type of talent, but teams just can't PLAN that. No GM can make their team fail badly enough and also get lucky enough to win the draft lottery...AND have their pick turn out roses.
And moreover, execute their independent actions with a better outcome than a signficant fraction of the 29 other teams, who assumedly are pursuing a near-identical strategy. Again, I am not saying random luck dominates, but I posit that it can negate or overwhelm the impact of all but the most blatant tangible actions.

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08-27-2013, 12:39 PM
  #580
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Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
B) BUF's strategy is indeed to acquire elite talent, yet they are incapable/unwilling (or both) to take the actions necessary to acquire elite talent, yet the vast majority of the (recent) Cup champions are capable/willing to take such actions, and (by default) those actions had a clear causal effect on their Cup win(s).
I agree with the bolded. I think the unbolded section that follows is irrelevant, because it asks you to delve into the subjective intent of the team at the time.

What I care about is this: Of the last 12 cup winners, 9 of them could realistically argue that their best player that year was a former top 4 pick (I think the list went: Toews, Kane, Crosby, Malkin, E. Staal, Pronger, Neidermayer, Lecavalier, Doughty, Yzerman). That is a "vast majority," to accede to your terms.

How they got that player is irrelevant to me. I will accept any path the Sabres take to get there. But I challenge anyone on these boards to argue that there are better odds of acquiring that level of talent in trade/FA than through the draft. There aren't.

All I want is for the Sabres to identify the quality of talent they likely need to win a cup, and then pursue the most likely path to get them - and for many more reasons than I've listed in this post, I think that path leads down the road to tanking.

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08-27-2013, 12:43 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
Again, I am not saying random luck dominates, but I posit that it can negate or overwhelm the impact of all but the most blatant tangible actions.
To argue that random luck overwhelms the strategy of getting a top pick is, I think, to ignore the track record of the top forwards picked in the draft. Take the top 2 forwards picked in the draft over a 10 year sample from which we can now tell the outcomes, more of less. Say 2000-2009. The top two forwards picked over that span overwhelmingly turned out to be top 20 players at some point in their careers.

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08-27-2013, 12:57 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
To argue that random luck overwhelms the strategy of getting a top pick is, I think, to ignore the track record of the top forwards picked in the draft. Take the top 2 forwards picked in the draft over a 10 year sample from which we can now tell the outcomes, more of less. Say 2000-2009. The top two forwards picked over that span overwhelmingly turned out to be top 20 players at some point in their careers.
Even getting a top 3 pick doesn't mean that the team will win a Cup.

Atlanta/Winnipeg got Bogosian at 3 and Kane at 4 and they aren't that close to competing.

Tampa Bay hasn't won much since drafting Stamkos 1st overall in 2008.

Philly hasn't won since drafting JVR 2nd in 2007. Ditto for Phoenix who drafted Turris 3rd in 2007.

St Louis hasn't won since drafting EJ 1st overall in 2006.

Who knows if Edmonton's 3 1st overall picks will be able to lead them to the promised land?

Boston didn't win because they drafted Seguin 2nd overall.

Building a Cup winner is about a lot more than having one or two top 3 picks. Any team that wins it all will have impact players that they either drafted outside of the top 3 and/or that they acquired via trade or UFA.

The key is getting the right players. Yes, drafting high in the draft increases the odds of getting a talented player. But, I don't think a team is doomed if they don't tank for a year or seven.

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08-27-2013, 01:15 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by LegomyLeggio View Post
Building a Cup winner is about a lot more than having one or two top 3 picks. Any team that wins it all will have impact players that they either drafted outside of the top 3 and/or that they acquired via trade or UFA.
Yes.

Quote:
The key is getting the right players. Yes, drafting high in the draft increases the odds of getting a talented player. But, I don't think a team is doomed if they don't tank for a year or seven.
True.

But that doesn't mean they're a team I'd bet on, or a team that I think has good chances.

And since I've gone on for so long talking about how I would go about getting the right players, I think it's only fair that other folks say something about who they think the right players are, and what our strategy should be to acquire them.

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08-27-2013, 01:29 PM
  #584
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Yes.


what our strategy should be to acquire them.
I like the strategy the team is using now.

***
I don't agree with a forced tank.


Last edited by Jacob582: 08-27-2013 at 01:46 PM.
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08-27-2013, 01:36 PM
  #585
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
And since I've gone on for so long talking about how I would go about getting the right players, I think it's only fair that other folks say something about who they think the right players are, and what our strategy should be to acquire them.
Unless a number of fans don't think the Sabres should try to acquire high end experienced talent at this stage of the rebuild. I don't. I don't desire draining the prospect/young talent pond for one or two guys.


Develop the youth, keep adding complimentary pieces as needed. And be confident this new developing "core" of players will do better than the old Rochester core that fell short. Don't like it (more than the casual complaining)? Oh well, you could always follow another team that does exactly what you want. Good luck with that.

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08-27-2013, 02:46 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
And since I've gone on for so long talking about how I would go about getting the right players, I think it's only fair that other folks say something about who they think the right players are, and what our strategy should be to acquire them.
The answer is what they've been doing the last 18 months, on top of the young talent they were already developing....

Phase 1 : Build
1. Acquire and Develop Young Talent at Center
- Trade for Hodgson
- Try Ennis There
- Draft Grigorenko
- Draft Girgensons
- Draft Kea
- Trade for Larsson
- Draft Compher

2. Acquire and Develop Young Talent on Blueline
- Develop Myers
- Draft McCabe
- Draft Ristolainen
- Draft Zadarov

3. Build a stable of goaltending youth
- Sign Makarov
- Draft Ullmark
- Trade for Hackett
- Sign Enroth
- Draft Peterson

4. Build a stable of gritty players
- Draft Kea
- Develop Foligno
- Develop McNabb
- Draft Bailey

Phase 2 : Growth
1. Have veteran leaders in place to drive work ethic
- Re-sign Weber and make him Captain
- Re-sign Ott
- Bring back Tallinder

Phase 3 : Supplement
- Sign/trade for scoring depth
- Sign/trade for 2 way depth

You position starts off with the assumption that none of these guys can develop into the talent needed to build the core of a cup contender... and I think it's nonsense...

Buffalo is going to have around 8 first rounders in a 5 year span... there is no reason the guys they have can't form a contender... is every pick going to turn out like this? of course not... but they only need 2 or 3 of them to hit high end to be in great shape... and this doesn't even count potential top 15 picks in the next 2 drafts....

2003 (mirror 2008 Myers/Ennis)
14th Seabrook
28th Perry

2004 (mirror 2009 Hodgson)
20th Zajac

2005 (Mirror 2010 Pysyk)
22nd TJ Oshie

2006 (2011 Armia)
22nd Giroux

2007 (2012 mirror Grigs/Girgs)
9th Couture
12th McDonagh

2008 (2013 mirror Risto/Zads)
4th Petriangelo
12th Myers

no top picks.... that team looks pretty ok to me...

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08-27-2013, 02:56 PM
  #587
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Yes.




And since I've gone on for so long talking about how I would go about getting the right players, I think it's only fair that other folks say something about who they think the right players are, and what our strategy should be to acquire them.
I don't answer that question until after this season. You could even argue it happens after the following season, not even this one.

We need to continue to draft and see what we have with all these kids. Once we get a better grasp of them, we supplement with improvements to weak areas.

this coming year = assess
The year after next = possibly assess again

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08-27-2013, 03:02 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
I agree with the bolded. I think the unbolded section that follows is irrelevant, because it asks you to delve into the subjective intent of the team at the time.

What I care about is this: Of the last 12 cup winners, 9 of them could realistically argue that their best player that year was a former top 4 pick (I think the list went: Toews, Kane, Crosby, Malkin, E. Staal, Pronger, Neidermayer, Lecavalier, Doughty, Yzerman). That is a "vast majority," to accede to your terms.

How they got that player is irrelevant to me. I will accept any path the Sabres take to get there. But I challenge anyone on these boards to argue that there are better odds of acquiring that level of talent in trade/FA than through the draft. There aren't.

All I want is for the Sabres to identify the quality of talent they likely need to win a cup, and then pursue the most likely path to get them - and for many more reasons than I've listed in this post, I think that path leads down the road to tanking.

And that has been your problem from the get go. None of the teams you referenced set out to ice a team that would suck so bad they would get a high draft pick. You are trying to argue for a course of action no team has taken as your "team building" strategy. When we went to rebuild the roster the idea was to move out some of the previous core and start anew with young talented players. It may lead to a year or two of higher picks but that isn't the focus.

The Red Wings were the laughing stock of the NHL and had missed the playoffs 15 of the previous 17 years before drafting Stevie Y. No rational thinking person would argue that was a team building strategy. It was garbage ownership that led to those crap years and high picks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
To argue that random luck overwhelms the strategy of getting a top pick is, I think, to ignore the track record of the top forwards picked in the draft. Take the top 2 forwards picked in the draft over a 10 year sample from which we can now tell the outcomes, more of less. Say 2000-2009. The top two forwards picked over that span overwhelmingly turned out to be top 20 players at some point in their careers.

Why are you mixing two separate things? The odds of getting a top pick are one thing. The odds of that pick turning into something are another. They are not the same thing. Yes random luck plays a very large role in a team being able to draft the type of players you are talking about.

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08-27-2013, 03:21 PM
  #589
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And that has been your problem from the get go. None of the teams you referenced set out to ice a team that would suck so bad they would get a high draft pick. You are trying to argue for a course of action no team has taken as your "team building" strategy. When we went to rebuild the roster the idea was to move out some of the previous core and start anew with young talented players. It may lead to a year or two of higher picks but that isn't the focus.

The Red Wings were the laughing stock of the NHL and had missed the playoffs 15 of the previous 17 years before drafting Stevie Y. No rational thinking person would argue that was a team building strategy. It was garbage ownership that led to those crap years and high picks.


Why are you mixing two separate things? The odds of getting a top pick are one thing. The odds of that pick turning into something are another. They are not the same thing. Yes random luck plays a very large role in a team being able to draft the type of players you are talking about.
I don't see why it matters what a team's intent was when they got to the top of the draft. If getting there gets you the players you need, it's viable.

Random luck, sure, also plays a part in whether you get to the top of the draft or not, but it's also very heavily correlated with the team that you put on the ice.

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08-27-2013, 03:24 PM
  #590
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I don't see why it matters what a team's intent was when they got to the top of the draft. If getting there gets you the players you need, it's viable.

Random luck, sure, also plays a part in whether you get to the top of the draft or not, but it's also very heavily correlated with the team that you put on the ice.
sure, what's wrong with suggesting a "Strategy" that's never actually been deployed as a strategy

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08-27-2013, 06:48 PM
  #591
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
The answer is what they've been doing the last 18 months, on top of the young talent they were already developing....

Phase 1 : Build
1. Acquire and Develop Young Talent at Center
- Trade for Hodgson
- Try Ennis There
- Draft Grigorenko
- Draft Girgensons
- Draft Kea
- Trade for Larsson
- Draft Compher

2. Acquire and Develop Young Talent on Blueline
- Develop Myers
- Draft McCabe
- Draft Ristolainen
- Draft Zadarov

3. Build a stable of goaltending youth
- Sign Makarov
- Draft Ullmark
- Trade for Hackett
- Sign Enroth
- Draft Peterson

4. Build a stable of gritty players
- Draft Kea
- Develop Foligno
- Develop McNabb
- Draft Bailey

Phase 2 : Growth
1. Have veteran leaders in place to drive work ethic
- Re-sign Weber and make him Captain
- Re-sign Ott
- Bring back Tallinder

Phase 3 : Supplement
- Sign/trade for scoring depth
- Sign/trade for 2 way depth

You position starts off with the assumption that none of these guys can develop into the talent needed to build the core of a cup contender... and I think it's nonsense...

Buffalo is going to have around 8 first rounders in a 5 year span... there is no reason the guys they have can't form a contender... is every pick going to turn out like this? of course not... but they only need 2 or 3 of them to hit high end to be in great shape... and this doesn't even count potential top 15 picks in the next 2 drafts....

2003 (mirror 2008 Myers/Ennis)
14th Seabrook
28th Perry

2004 (mirror 2009 Hodgson)
20th Zajac

2005 (Mirror 2010 Pysyk)
22nd TJ Oshie

2006 (2011 Armia)
22nd Giroux

2007 (2012 mirror Grigs/Girgs)
9th Couture
12th McDonagh

2008 (2013 mirror Risto/Zads)
4th Petriangelo
12th Myers

no top picks.... that team looks pretty ok to me...

The comparison to the previous five year's draft is the best "stay the course" I've seen yet. Nice job.

Yeah, if our picks turned out to be 75% of the previous picks, I'd be happy and the team would be solid.

Nice comparison

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08-27-2013, 08:23 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
The answer is what they've been doing the last 18 months, on top of the young talent they were already developing....

Phase 1 : Build
1. Acquire and Develop Young Talent at Center
- Trade for Hodgson
- Try Ennis There
- Draft Grigorenko
- Draft Girgensons
- Draft Kea
- Trade for Larsson
- Draft Compher

2. Acquire and Develop Young Talent on Blueline
- Develop Myers
- Draft McCabe
- Draft Ristolainen
- Draft Zadarov

3. Build a stable of goaltending youth
- Sign Makarov
- Draft Ullmark
- Trade for Hackett
- Sign Enroth
- Draft Peterson

4. Build a stable of gritty players
- Draft Kea
- Develop Foligno
- Develop McNabb
- Draft Bailey

Phase 2 : Growth
1. Have veteran leaders in place to drive work ethic
- Re-sign Weber and make him Captain
- Re-sign Ott
- Bring back Tallinder

Phase 3 : Supplement
- Sign/trade for scoring depth
- Sign/trade for 2 way depth

You position starts off with the assumption that none of these guys can develop into the talent needed to build the core of a cup contender... and I think it's nonsense...

Buffalo is going to have around 8 first rounders in a 5 year span... there is no reason the guys they have can't form a contender... is every pick going to turn out like this? of course not... but they only need 2 or 3 of them to hit high end to be in great shape... and this doesn't even count potential top 15 picks in the next 2 drafts....

2003 (mirror 2008 Myers/Ennis)
14th Seabrook
28th Perry

2004 (mirror 2009 Hodgson)
20th Zajac

2005 (Mirror 2010 Pysyk)
22nd TJ Oshie

2006 (2011 Armia)
22nd Giroux

2007 (2012 mirror Grigs/Girgs)
9th Couture
12th McDonagh

2008 (2013 mirror Risto/Zads)
4th Petriangelo
12th Myers

no top picks.... that team looks pretty ok to me...
Excellent breakdown

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sure, what's wrong with suggesting a "Strategy" that's never actually been deployed as a strategy
That point seems to be continually missed

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08-27-2013, 09:13 PM
  #593
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Excellent breakdown
Agreed. Always appreciate posters who put time/thought into that stuff.

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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
That point seems to be continually missed
Yes. As well as the fact that even if it (the tank-at-all-costs strategy) was employed by a team, that team still cannot control the actions of the other 29 teams, and, most importantly, the handful of other bottom-dwelling teams.

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08-27-2013, 10:31 PM
  #594
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Yes.



True.

But that doesn't mean they're a team I'd bet on, or a team that I think has good chances.

And since I've gone on for so long talking about how I would go about getting the right players, I think it's only fair that other folks say something about who they think the right players are, and what our strategy should be to acquire them.
When you are talking about elite talent on Stanley cup champions in a salary cap world, there's one more adjective you need to add: young. They are the "right" players not only because they are elite, but underpaid as well. In fact, I would say their the right players more because they are underpaid then because they are elite. So to answer your question, the right players I would try to acquire are underpaid players. There are two groups I would target:

1. Young players-ELCs and RFAs restrictions including elite talent if possible
2. Pegula Pests(high energy/compete, defensive oriented with the ability to pitch in offensively)-I don't know if its because the game has become more physical/defensive or what, but for some reason these type of players are underpaid. boston's 4th line that wreaked havoc in the playoffs has a 4m cap hit total.

Remarkably, the Sabres have done an incredible job finding players that fit under both of those targets:

Girgs
Larsson
Cat
Kea
Compher
Bailey
Baptiste
Tropp
Foligno
Flynn

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08-28-2013, 07:41 AM
  #595
fr9dd9
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Will armia attend at the camp and will he habe a chance of playing some preseason games?

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08-28-2013, 08:10 AM
  #596
Chainshot
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Originally Posted by fr9dd9 View Post
Will armia attend at the camp and will he habe a chance of playing some preseason games?
Yes he will be at camp and likely be in pre-season games and then on to Rochester to hone his skills before graduating to the Sabres. It's possible he may have some games-played with Buffalo before the end of the season.

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08-28-2013, 08:58 AM
  #597
tsujimoto74
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Yes he will be at camp and likely be in pre-season games and then on to Rochester to hone his skills before graduating to the Sabres. It's possible he may have some games-played with Buffalo before the end of the season.
With our lack of talent on the wings/lack of scoring threats in general, I'd say there's a chance he plays his way onto the roster to start the season.

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08-28-2013, 09:09 AM
  #598
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Originally Posted by JLewyB View Post
When you are talking about elite talent on Stanley cup champions in a salary cap world, there's one more adjective you need to add: young. They are the "right" players not only because they are elite, but underpaid as well. In fact, I would say their the right players more because they are underpaid then because they are elite. So to answer your question, the right players I would try to acquire are underpaid players. There are two groups I would target:

1. Young players-ELCs and RFAs restrictions including elite talent if possible
2. Pegula Pests(high energy/compete, defensive oriented with the ability to pitch in offensively)-I don't know if its because the game has become more physical/defensive or what, but for some reason these type of players are underpaid. boston's 4th line that wreaked havoc in the playoffs has a 4m cap hit total.

Remarkably, the Sabres have done an incredible job finding players that fit under both of those targets:

Girgs
Larsson
Cat
Kea
Compher
Bailey
Baptiste
Tropp
Foligno
Flynn
Agreed. I believe it was joshjull who latched onto that ELC value overachieving talent as a key need after the hawks and bruins cups, and advocated it for BUF to employ.

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08-28-2013, 09:38 AM
  #599
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The Conn Smythe Trophy winners list is interesting to look at from a talent acquisition POV:

2013 - Kane - Drafted 1st overall
2012 - Quick - Drafted 72nd overall
2011 - Thomas - Signed as a UFA
2010 - Toews - Drafted 3rd overall
2009 - Malkin - Drafted 2nd overall
2008 - Zetterberg - Drafted 210th overall
2007 - Niedermayer - Signed as a UFA
2006 - Ward - Drafted 25th overall

Also, if you look at the top 10 playoff scorers, it isn't as dominated by top picks as the regular season scoring has been of late.

In 2013, only 3 of the top 10 scorers were top 10 overall picks, but those three were all top 3 overall selections (Kane, Horton, and Malkin).

In 2012, only 2 of the top 10 scorers were top 3 (and top 10) picks in Kovalchuk and Doughty.

In 2011, there were 3 again in the Sedins and Lecavalier. 2011 was interesting as the top 10 had two undrafted players in St-Louis and Burrows.

There was also a blend of homegrown players versus those acquired via the draft.

2013 had 7 homegrown players in the top 10 (Krejci, Kane, Lucic, Bickell, Malkin, Letang, and Bergeron), 2012 had 6 (Kopitar, Brown, Giroux, Doughty, Parise, and Zajac), and 2011 had 8 (only undrafted players St-Louis and Burrows weren't homegrown guys).

And just a note, 63rd overall pick David Krejci has led the league in playoff scoring two of the past three seasons.

To me, the key is having a blueprint of the type of player that is successful (work ethic, character, leadership, compete level, mental toughness, etc.) at the next level, especially in the playoffs and get as many of those guys as possible.

I like how the Sabres have approached thing recently and having 6 1sts over the past four drafts helps there, too.

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08-28-2013, 11:17 AM
  #600
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegomyLeggio View Post
The Conn Smythe Trophy winners list is interesting to look at from a talent acquisition POV:

2013 - Kane - Drafted 1st overall
2012 - Quick - Drafted 72nd overall
2011 - Thomas - Signed as a UFA
2010 - Toews - Drafted 3rd overall
2009 - Malkin - Drafted 2nd overall
2008 - Zetterberg - Drafted 210th overall
2007 - Niedermayer - Signed as a UFA
2006 - Ward - Drafted 25th overall

Also, if you look at the top 10 playoff scorers, it isn't as dominated by top picks as the regular season scoring has been of late.

In 2013, only 3 of the top 10 scorers were top 10 overall picks, but those three were all top 3 overall selections (Kane, Horton, and Malkin).

In 2012, only 2 of the top 10 scorers were top 3 (and top 10) picks in Kovalchuk and Doughty.

In 2011, there were 3 again in the Sedins and Lecavalier. 2011 was interesting as the top 10 had two undrafted players in St-Louis and Burrows.

There was also a blend of homegrown players versus those acquired via the draft.

2013 had 7 homegrown players in the top 10 (Krejci, Kane, Lucic, Bickell, Malkin, Letang, and Bergeron), 2012 had 6 (Kopitar, Brown, Giroux, Doughty, Parise, and Zajac), and 2011 had 8 (only undrafted players St-Louis and Burrows weren't homegrown guys).

And just a note, 63rd overall pick David Krejci has led the league in playoff scoring two of the past three seasons.

To me, the key is having a blueprint of the type of player that is successful (work ethic, character, leadership, compete level, mental toughness, etc.) at the next level, especially in the playoffs and get as many of those guys as possible.

I like how the Sabres have approached thing recently and having 6 1sts over the past four drafts helps there, too.
quoted for truth

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