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Old
01-13-2014, 10:36 AM
  #926
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
All the Nichushkin haters still think he's garbage?
I drafted him at #6 in my dynasty fantasy league. Right about now I love the hell out of that man.

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01-13-2014, 10:46 AM
  #927
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With the official boards DOA and the team floundering like a catfish thrown onto the ice, it's no surprise that those who are posting have a bit of a 'tude about things.

I see only three things happening that could change things up:

1. A winning streak.
2. Pekka returns - healthy.
3. Trotz and/or Poile are fired.
This season has been a PR disaster and a piss poor season on and off the ice when it comes to fan relations. First the switch to the 1st day of the month payments instead of the 15th, the only notice we got was a few days before the 1st "Your payment will be taken on the 1st of May". A panic ensued and they changed it back to the 15th thankfully. Then the "Perds" and other communication mishaps. And of course the piss poor handling of the message board closer. Wonder if "PredsWebGirl" is responsible for some of the other mishaps along with the message board? I guess we should call them the PissPoorPerds until things are corrected withing the Organ Eye Zation.

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01-13-2014, 02:33 PM
  #928
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I can't wait until somebody totally blows me up over my opinion, but I sincerely believe that Trotz cares less about winning than he does pursuing his mythical "Predator Way". In fact, I've felt this way for at least a couple of seasons or longer. Between his ridiculous and delusional comments suggesting that how they play trumps the final score, (mis)management of games, inability to make in-game changes, unwillingness to embrace a different long term strategy and style of play, absurd line combos, double standard among players and their playing time and a dozen other things, I can come to no other conclusion with Trotz.

All pro franchises use winning as the measuring stick, except this one I guess, so the blame should be spread to Poile and ownership as well for not embracing a culture of winning and success and instead this bizarre "Predator Way". The team Poile has assembled was never built to win, but rather fit this "Predator Way" and gives Trotz exactly what he wants, wins and losses be damned.

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01-13-2014, 06:46 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Preds Partisan View Post
I can't wait until somebody totally blows me up over my opinion, but I sincerely believe that Trotz cares less about winning than he does pursuing his mythical "Predator Way". In fact, I've felt this way for at least a couple of seasons or longer. Between his ridiculous and delusional comments suggesting that how they play trumps the final score, (mis)management of games, inability to make in-game changes, unwillingness to embrace a different long term strategy and style of play, absurd line combos, double standard among players and their playing time and a dozen other things, I can come to no other conclusion with Trotz.

All pro franchises use winning as the measuring stick, except this one I guess, so the blame should be spread to Poile and ownership as well for not embracing a culture of winning and success and instead this bizarre "Predator Way". The team Poile has assembled was never built to win, but rather fit this "Predator Way" and gives Trotz exactly what he wants, wins and losses be damned.
Your comments are 100% accurate. It absolutely sickens me when I hear the terms "the Predator way, or Predator Hockey". The clueless coach and equally clueless General manager have shoved this garbage down our throats for years. I have no idea what the owners stance is, but if they've learned anything about Hockey since they bought this team they need to cut these two and cut them now. Of course Poile has been selected as GM for the Olympic team so they will not have the guts to send him packing.

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01-13-2014, 07:19 PM
  #930
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If this situation was going on in any of the O6 cities, or anywhere else in Canada, Poile and Trotz would have been ####canned months ago.

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01-13-2014, 08:25 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by jwhouk View Post
If this situation was going on in any of the O6 cities, or anywhere else in Canada, Poile and Trotz would have been ####canned months ago.
aka a fan base with a brain stem

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01-13-2014, 09:47 PM
  #932
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Jesus Christ. The overblown pessimism is sickening. Poile and Trotz know more about hockey than this entire board put together and we act like they're idiots. It's getting ridiculous. No, I'm not happy with where the team is right now. I wouldn't be sad to see a coaching change or front office change because they're just as interchangeable as the players. But stop acting like they've suddenly gone stupid. Yeah, this season has gone mostly downhill. It sucks. Relax. We're in a down swing. It might last another season or two. But it will get better eventually. And knotting yourself up about it and getting pissed off gets nothing accomplished, except to ruin your day.

edit: And I have now been edited for using a word that I've never heard described as "offensive" before. I think I'm done here. This is getting ridiculous.


Last edited by MrJoshua: 01-14-2014 at 09:59 AM. Reason: Don't offend.
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Old
01-13-2014, 10:33 PM
  #933
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Not while Poile and Trotz are running things. Poile and Trotz seem to think we are still in the dead puck era, where you grind out wins. In the current NHL, you need dynamic, threat to score every time they are on the ice forwards. We have none. We have 2-4th line guys who can't finish worth a damn.

Poile and Trotz have taken this franchise as far as they can. Time to get some fresh voices and thoughts in the FO and behind the bench. And some house cleaning in the admin side would probably be good too.(Perds)

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01-14-2014, 12:40 AM
  #934
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Any chance Hutton gets a start this week? or is he out of the picture right now?

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01-14-2014, 06:46 AM
  #935
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I heard something on the radio yesterday afternoon about the guys being angry after the loss on Sunday night. Really? You're angry now, after the game? That's part of the problem. At what point during the game did they not realize they were playing up to snuff? I mean come on, let's get angry after the fact. Once again, something that has me scratching my head.

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01-14-2014, 08:37 AM
  #936
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At this stage I fail to see how 'pessimism' is out of line. We have a team built with grinders on a strategy of 'puck possession' that has been executed properly in maybe a dozen games, all of which the team did not win. Pekka is not the only problem, folks, he just exposed the inherent weakness of the roster and system.

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01-14-2014, 09:02 AM
  #937
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Yes, I'm pessimistic..... I think there are a lot of problems.

But the people who want to constantly complain and compare to canadian hockey or 06 teams, go take a hike.

who gives a dam about canada or 06 teams.


and if you think those fans are the only ones that "have a brain stem" don't let the door hit you on the way out.

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01-14-2014, 09:04 AM
  #938
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Originally Posted by predfan98 View Post
Yes, I'm pessimistic..... I think there are a lot of problems.

But the people who want to constantly complain and compare to canadian hockey or 06 teams, go take a hike.

who gives a dam about canada or 06 teams.


and if you think those fans are the only ones that "have a brain stem" don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Preach it brother 98....

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01-14-2014, 09:26 AM
  #939
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Sometimes where you're laying an egg in a game, you switch goalies just to shake things up and give the team some new confidence. Sometimes when you're laying an egg over a whole season, you switch out the coach just to shake things up and give the team some new confidence. It's time.

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01-14-2014, 09:57 AM
  #940
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Originally Posted by jwhouk View Post
If this situation was going on in any of the O6 cities, or anywhere else in Canada, Poile and Trotz would have been ####canned months ago.
You misspelled years.

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01-14-2014, 05:03 PM
  #941
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Nick Spaling: 7 goals, 8 assists minus 1 +/-

A perfect example of a Trotz-loved player. Solid. Detailed. Reliable. Kills PK, plays on some PP lines, great defensive awareness. Good enough to play on scoring lines. 100% every night. Great character. Great in the room. Great soldier.

Offensively, just not good enough for the Top 6. Lousy hands and the puck rarely finds him. He is the epitome of our team make-up. All forwards with the exception of Smith, Horny, Wilson, and Stalberg fall into some range of a Spaling-like player. We have 8 of these guys when we need 3 . And the 4 who don't are one or two notches below a Top 6 player on any other team.

A team full of Spalings can only win with a consistently hot Rinne and offensively aggressive D-men clicking on all cylinders.

Where are the hell-with-the-D-I'm-pouching-at-the-blue-line guys like Sully, Kariya, and Rads. We need at least two of those types. And maybe one great-hands-type around the net like Dumont. Again, you can only have one of these Dumont types cuz they're slow and d-liabilities, but they'll get you 20-25 goals and help your PP.

Where has the diversity gone?

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01-14-2014, 05:19 PM
  #942
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Originally Posted by ILikeItILoveIt View Post
Nick Spaling: 7 goals, 8 assists minus 1 +/-

A perfect example of a Trotz-loved player. Solid. Detailed. Reliable. Kills PK, plays on some PP lines, great defensive awareness. Good enough to play on scoring lines. 100% every night. Great character. Great in the room. Great soldier.

Offensively, just not good enough for the Top 6. Lousy hands and the puck rarely finds him. He is the epitome of our team make-up. All forwards with the exception of Smith, Horny, Wilson, and Stalberg fall into some range of a Spaling-like player. We have 8 of these guys when we need 3 . And the 4 who don't are one or two notches below a Top 6 player on any other team.

A team full of Spalings can only win with a consistently hot Rinne and offensively aggressive D-men clicking on all cylinders.

Where are the hell-with-the-D-I'm-pouching-at-the-blue-line guys like Sully, Kariya, and Rads. We need at least two of those types. And maybe one great-hands-type around the net like Dumont. Again, you can only have one of these Dumont types cuz they're slow and d-liabilities, but they'll get you 20-25 goals and help your PP.

Where has the diversity gone?
I think it took a break when Poile was "putting together Team USA" & adding Carter Hutton as a can't miss FA, with Pekka coming off a hip surgery.

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01-15-2014, 03:02 AM
  #943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeItILoveIt View Post
Nick Spaling: 7 goals, 8 assists minus 1 +/-

A perfect example of a Trotz-loved player. Solid. Detailed. Reliable. Kills PK, plays on some PP lines, great defensive awareness. Good enough to play on scoring lines. 100% every night. Great character. Great in the room. Great soldier.

Offensively, just not good enough for the Top 6. Lousy hands and the puck rarely finds him. He is the epitome of our team make-up. All forwards with the exception of Smith, Horny, Wilson, and Stalberg fall into some range of a Spaling-like player. We have 8 of these guys when we need 3 . And the 4 who don't are one or two notches below a Top 6 player on any other team.

A team full of Spalings can only win with a consistently hot Rinne and offensively aggressive D-men clicking on all cylinders.

Where are the hell-with-the-D-I'm-pouching-at-the-blue-line guys like Sully, Kariya, and Rads. We need at least two of those types. And maybe one great-hands-type around the net like Dumont. Again, you can only have one of these Dumont types cuz they're slow and d-liabilities, but they'll get you 20-25 goals and help your PP.

Where has the diversity gone?
Honestly, I think the type of player you're looking for is what the club already has in Forsberg, but he doesn't get the leeway to play that style because he's so young and Trotz has to "educate" him in the "Predator Way," because that's far more important than using a player's strengths to help you win hockey games.

For giggles, I keep a pace table on our players and the players in Milwaukee (because it's really not that difficult and a good way to kill a half-hour in the middle of the day). This is what our players' points per game rates look like when translated to goals and points over 82 games:

PlayerGoalsAssistsPoints
S. Weber^203555
D. Legwand124153
C. Smith262652
M. Fisher242448
P. Hornqvist172946
C. Wilson122638
F. Forsberg72734
M. Cullen*92433
R. Josi^92433
S. Jones^72431
N. Spaling131730
G. Bourque101828
V. Stalberg*121628
R. Ellis^42125
P. Gaustad12917
E. Nystrom*11415
M. Ekholm^31013
R. Clune639
M. Hendricks*448
V. Bartley^088
K. Klein^246

^ Denotes defenseman
* Denotes 2013 signing

And the Milwaukee guys:

PlayerGoalsAssistsPoints
F. Forsberg4664110
T. Beck273259
P. Cehlin*233558
C. Sissons332356
A. Bitetto^223153
M. Salomaki193453
A. Watson213051
B. Rodney^53944
S. Moser152843
V. Saponari181836
M. Van Guilder141630
K. Henderson111425
C. Roussel^02424
J. Piskula^02222
J. Rask31821
Z. Budish91524
M. Tousignant51419
J. Jarvinen^31619
J. Shalla7714
M. Liambas31013
S. Valentine^01111
S. Ford^505

^ Denotes defenseman
* Cehlin has only played 7 games for Milwaukee this season, missing the remaining time with an "undisclosed injury"

Obviously, AHL numbers won't translate fully to the NHL, but Forsberg sticks out like Charlie Sheen in a church with the Admirals (and is actually on pace to lead the team in scoring despite having played 22 fewer games than Beck). We have an open spot on the NHL roster right now, and I wonder if it isn't the plan to have Forsberg back up before the Olympic break.

We're two forwards away from being seriously competitive again. Look at our lines from tonight:

Bourque (0.34) - Legwand (0.65) - Smith (0.62)
Wilson (0.47) - Fisher (0.59) - Hornqvist (0.56)
Nystrom (0.18) - Cullen (0.40) - Spaling (0.36)
Hendricks (0.09) - Gaustad (0.21) - Stalberg (0.33)

Wilson was poised for a breakout year, but the results so far have been a massive step backward from what he was doing before his shoulder injury in the spring. He has dropped .29 off his PPG rate from the short season, and Bourque has shed .14 off his, both of which are pretty substantial drops (for Bourque, that's an 11 point difference over 82 games; for Wilson, it's 24 points, including 11 goals in his case). Wilson is 24, so that's an especially bad regression for such a vital time in his career, and he would be a third liner on most teams with his form this year (and would, based on his production, be a perfect fit with Cullen and Spaling or Stalberg on a third line).

Forsberg is by no means a perfect solution to our offensive woes, but giving him substantial minutes would at least be indicative of an effort to fix the issue, rather than keeping Bourque and Spaling in the lineup together, expecting them to play outside themselves and produce a ton of offense for this team, not to mention traveling a forward light.

Then again, we're talking about an organization that pays a guy $3.5M a year purely to win face-offs, so it's not like they make the most sensible personnel decisions to begin with.

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01-15-2014, 08:13 AM
  #944
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
We're two forwards away from being seriously competitive again. Look at our lines from tonight:
this is the salient point that people are missing. Reading our boards you would think we are a chronic cellar dweller needing a complete firesale type overhaul.

The two forwards were supposed to be Wilson and Forsberg. If Wilson had made the progress that Smith has(finally) made, and Forsberg had been healthy and approached 20 goals, that team in front of a healthy Rinne is a playoff contender.

The problem becomes, do we wait for Wilson and assume he will bounce back? And do we think Legwand still has enough in the tank to extend him a couple of years, or are we going to have to try to find two more top six guys (plus hope for Forsberg) this summer

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01-15-2014, 08:28 AM
  #945
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Honestly, I think the type of player you're looking for is what the club already has in Forsberg, but he doesn't get the leeway to play that style because he's so young and Trotz has to "educate" him in the "Predator Way," because that's far more important than using a player's strengths to help you win hockey games.

For giggles, I keep a pace table on our players and the players in Milwaukee (because it's really not that difficult and a good way to kill a half-hour in the middle of the day). This is what our players' points per game rates look like when translated to goals and points over 82 games:

PlayerGoalsAssistsPoints
S. Weber^203555
D. Legwand124153
C. Smith262652
M. Fisher242448
P. Hornqvist172946
C. Wilson122638
F. Forsberg72734
M. Cullen*92433
R. Josi^92433
S. Jones^72431
N. Spaling131730
G. Bourque101828
V. Stalberg*121628
R. Ellis^42125
P. Gaustad12917
E. Nystrom*11415
M. Ekholm^31013
R. Clune639
M. Hendricks*448
V. Bartley^088
K. Klein^246

^ Denotes defenseman
* Denotes 2013 signing

And the Milwaukee guys:

PlayerGoalsAssistsPoints
F. Forsberg4664110
T. Beck273259
P. Cehlin*233558
C. Sissons332356
A. Bitetto^223153
M. Salomaki193453
A. Watson213051
B. Rodney^53944
S. Moser152843
V. Saponari181836
M. Van Guilder141630
K. Henderson111425
C. Roussel^02424
J. Piskula^02222
J. Rask31821
Z. Budish91524
M. Tousignant51419
J. Jarvinen^31619
J. Shalla7714
M. Liambas31013
S. Valentine^01111
S. Ford^505

^ Denotes defenseman
* Cehlin has only played 7 games for Milwaukee this season, missing the remaining time with an "undisclosed injury"

Obviously, AHL numbers won't translate fully to the NHL, but Forsberg sticks out like Charlie Sheen in a church with the Admirals (and is actually on pace to lead the team in scoring despite having played 22 fewer games than Beck). We have an open spot on the NHL roster right now, and I wonder if it isn't the plan to have Forsberg back up before the Olympic break.

We're two forwards away from being seriously competitive again. Look at our lines from tonight:

Bourque (0.34) - Legwand (0.65) - Smith (0.62)
Wilson (0.47) - Fisher (0.59) - Hornqvist (0.56)
Nystrom (0.18) - Cullen (0.40) - Spaling (0.36)
Hendricks (0.09) - Gaustad (0.21) - Stalberg (0.33)

Wilson was poised for a breakout year, but the results so far have been a massive step backward from what he was doing before his shoulder injury in the spring. He has dropped .29 off his PPG rate from the short season, and Bourque has shed .14 off his, both of which are pretty substantial drops (for Bourque, that's an 11 point difference over 82 games; for Wilson, it's 24 points, including 11 goals in his case). Wilson is 24, so that's an especially bad regression for such a vital time in his career, and he would be a third liner on most teams with his form this year (and would, based on his production, be a perfect fit with Cullen and Spaling or Stalberg on a third line).

Forsberg is by no means a perfect solution to our offensive woes, but giving him substantial minutes would at least be indicative of an effort to fix the issue, rather than keeping Bourque and Spaling in the lineup together, expecting them to play outside themselves and produce a ton of offense for this team, not to mention traveling a forward light.

Then again, we're talking about an organization that pays a guy $3.5M a year purely to win face-offs, so it's not like they make the most sensible personnel decisions to begin with.
Great stuff and insight faceoff. Keep it coming!

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01-15-2014, 01:10 PM
  #946
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The problem becomes, do we wait for Wilson and assume he will bounce back? And do we think Legwand still has enough in the tank to extend him a couple of years, or are we going to have to try to find two more top six guys (plus hope for Forsberg) this summer
I don't think the club is in a position to do that, really. I've been looking around for forwards who've had breakout years at 25 or later, and the only players I've come up with so far are Patrick Sharp and Steve Sullivan, but Sharp was on his second organization and Sully was on his third, and that might well have been what it took to get the best out of them. Wilson is going to have to dramatically turn his form around before year's end if he wants to stay in Nashville, IMO.

In the meantime, I think the club has to make some kind of short-term move to give the team a fighting chance at the playoffs in the event Rinne doesn't come back with his A-game (or at all). If we had any interest in Cammalleri, Hemsky, or even Boyes, I would revisit those moves now with three and a half weeks before rosters freeze for the Olympics. Add one of those players plus Forsberg, and the offense will be much better.

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01-15-2014, 01:51 PM
  #947
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You don't give up on Wilson. We'd be selling low and even in his less-than-potential status he's better than most of our forwards. I'd keep playing Wilson and make sure he's playing with skilled players like Smith. Give him another 1 1/2 years to play up to his potential.

The interesting question is Leggie. Bringing in Cullen was supposed mean the end of Leggie. Fish and Cullen would be the vet centers and we wouldn't need to re-sign Legwand. Well, arguably, Legs has outplayed both and remains a Top 3 Forwards for us. His production this year and his UFA status make him an ideal rental for a contender. Do the Preds move him before the deadline? Certainly if we're out-of-it, they almost have to. If they're not going to lock him up before UFA hits, then it would be malpractice not to trade him.

The real dilemma comes if we sneak up the ladder toward the 8th spot and we're say, 3-4 points out on March 3rd. Do you pull a Suter-Hammer move and keep him for the playoff run and then risk getting nothing for him? Or do you move him and lessen your chance of making the playoffs?

We're 8 behind the Wild with a game-in-hand. 34 games left. We have to pass 3 teams: Wild, Stars, and Yotes. All have been struggling. If we can get to the Break 4 points out, it could be an exciting March/April, especially if Pekka returns.

Management is worried about a meaningless March/April. Lots of games with lots of seats that need fannies in them. Moving Legs sends the signal we're sacin' the bats.

What to do What to do.

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01-15-2014, 01:55 PM
  #948
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Alright, let's look a little at how the Hendricks trade changes the lineup, for both the rest of this season and next. Legwand and Spaling are the only forwards hitting UFA status at the end of this season. If we assume they're both gone, the roster looks like this for next season using only players currently on the NHL roster and under contract:

Wilson-Fisher-Hornqvist
Stalberg-Smith-Bourque
Nystrom-Cullen
Gaustad-Clune

Weber-Josi
Klein-Ellis
Jones-Ekholm
Bartley

Rinne
Mazanec/Dubnyk/Hutton/random tin can with a smiley face drawn on it

A couple of pretty obvious holes there. If you assume Nystrom drops down to the fourth line there's basically room to build an entire line around one of the centers on the roster. It also opens up the idea of re-signing Spaling or Legwand for another couple of years. But for now we'll assume they're both gone because that would be another entire debate.

I think it's safe to say that Forsberg will be the first call-up from Milwaukee, so pencil him into one of those roster spots. Beck is probably next up after Forsberg. So now the forwards look something like this next year:

Wilson-Fisher-Hornqvist
Forsberg-Smith-Beck
Stalberg-Cullen-Bourque
Clune-Gaustad-Nystrom

Now, there are some obvious questions about the idea of moving Smith back to center. Wilson could be moved to center instead, or Legwand or Spaling could be brought back.

Of course that doesn't address the possibility of free agent signings or trades. But with the pieces in the system right now and barring re-signing Legwand and/or Spaling I think that's pretty close to what we'd see for the team next year. Or if Watson is ready maybe something like:

Wilson-Fisher-Hornqvist
Forsberg-Cullen-Smith
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It's going to be an interesting off-season this summer. Again.

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01-15-2014, 02:42 PM
  #949
Soundgarden
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
I don't think the club is in a position to do that, really. I've been looking around for forwards who've had breakout years at 25 or later, and the only players I've come up with so far are Patrick Sharp and Steve Sullivan, but Sharp was on his second organization and Sully was on his third, and that might well have been what it took to get the best out of them. Wilson is going to have to dramatically turn his form around before year's end if he wants to stay in Nashville, IMO.

In the meantime, I think the club has to make some kind of short-term move to give the team a fighting chance at the playoffs in the event Rinne doesn't come back with his A-game (or at all). If we had any interest in Cammalleri, Hemsky, or even Boyes, I would revisit those moves now with three and a half weeks before rosters freeze for the Olympics. Add one of those players plus Forsberg, and the offense will be much better.
I think Poile had a Sullivan/Sharp type forward in mind when he signed Stalberg. He's definitely a risk, but if he does improve over the next few years I can see him becoming a decent 40-50 point player eventually.

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01-15-2014, 02:48 PM
  #950
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I think Poile had a Sullivan/Sharp type forward in mind when he signed Stalberg. He's definitely a risk, but if he does improve over the next few years I can see him becoming a decent 40-50 point player eventually.
Victor is 27. I'm not sure he has much more potential left in him.

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