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Old
01-15-2014, 04:03 PM
  #951
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
Victor is 27. I'm not sure he has much more potential left in him.
He also has a 22 goal season under his belt at the NHL level.

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01-15-2014, 04:22 PM
  #952
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
Victor is 27. I'm not sure he has much more potential left in him.
True, but he put up decent numbers hiding out on a stacked Chicago team. I think it was Poile's best bet for getting someone who could potentially put up points while going the free agency route. Odds are he won't be a Sullivan or even a SK in terms of points, but it's a good gamble to take.

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01-15-2014, 04:47 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Honestly, I think the type of player you're looking for is what the club already has in Forsberg, but he doesn't get the leeway to play that style because he's so young and Trotz has to "educate" him in the "Predator Way," because that's far more important than using a player's strengths to help you win hockey games.

For giggles, I keep a pace table on our players and the players in Milwaukee (because it's really not that difficult and a good way to kill a half-hour in the middle of the day). This is what our players' points per game rates look like when translated to goals and points over 82 games:



Obviously, AHL numbers won't translate fully to the NHL, but Forsberg sticks out like Charlie Sheen in a church with the Admirals (and is actually on pace to lead the team in scoring despite having played 22 fewer games than Beck). We have an open spot on the NHL roster right now, and I wonder if it isn't the plan to have Forsberg back up before the Olympic break.

When Forsberg got similar minutes in games with the Preds as on the Ads, what did he produce? While with the Ads, how many goals allowed has be been on the ice for at ES? What is he getting done at ES in Milwaukee? What has he done ES with the Preds?

He had a huge game against Lake Erie (along with several of his teammates) after nothing against Chicago. Right now he's completely feast or famine from game to game with a knack of being on the ice when ES goals are allowed ... a better than point per game pace in a limited number of appearances and still not a plus player. He needs to start performing at ES to succeed. 1 ES point in the NHL, 1 ES goal in the AHL ... on the ice for two shorties against with the Ads plus ES goals allowed in 5 of 9 games. Right now his numbers are dependent on the PP and any disciplined team neutralizes Forsberg simply by staying out of the box.

Hopefully he'll get over some of that with some time in Milwaukee and earn his way back up to the big club quickly. Right now, many of the issues with his NHL game show in the AHL and those need rectifying before he can succeed at the highest level.

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01-17-2014, 02:13 AM
  #954
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
When Forsberg got similar minutes in games with the Preds as on the Ads, what did he produce?
In games where Forsberg exceeded 15 minutes of TOI in Nashville, he had a goal and an assist. Two points in two games.

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While with the Ads, how many goals allowed has be been on the ice for at ES? What is he getting done at ES in Milwaukee? What has he done ES with the Preds?
But that's the best part: a power play goal counts the same as an even-strength goal, and teams can be successful wherever they produce goals as long as they're producing goals consistently. Compare Pittsburgh (26% of their offense on the power play) and Anaheim (19%). Both generate their offense in different ways, and both lead their conferences. Nashville can be successful with a high proportion of its offense (27%) coming on the power play, and the more bulk offense they can generate, the better. Forsberg would help Nashville in that regard, substantially more than playing the Hyde version of Bourque with our two best forwards.

Whether it be Forsberg or Beck or someone else, we should be seeing someone come up from Milwaukee soon unless another trade is forthcoming. Carrying 12 forwards for an extended period of time is playing with fire, because one tweak or tumble in warm-ups and Bartley is playing rover.

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01-17-2014, 08:39 AM
  #955
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
In games where Forsberg exceeded 15 minutes of TOI in Nashville, he had a goal and an assist. Two points in two games.



But that's the best part: a power play goal counts the same as an even-strength goal, and teams can be successful wherever they produce goals as long as they're producing goals consistently. Compare Pittsburgh (26% of their offense on the power play) and Anaheim (19%). Both generate their offense in different ways, and both lead their conferences. Nashville can be successful with a high proportion of its offense (27%) coming on the power play, and the more bulk offense they can generate, the better. Forsberg would help Nashville in that regard, substantially more than playing the Hyde version of Bourque with our two best forwards.

Whether it be Forsberg or Beck or someone else, we should be seeing someone come up from Milwaukee soon unless another trade is forthcoming. Carrying 12 forwards for an extended period of time is playing with fire, because one tweak or tumble in warm-ups and Bartley is playing rover.
We do likely need someone soon as having 12 is a roll of dice, however. there is a window around the Olympics where you can't send anyone down, and I don't think we want the young guys sitting for the entire break.

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01-17-2014, 09:53 AM
  #956
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
In games where Forsberg exceeded 15 minutes of TOI in Nashville, he had a goal and an assist. Two points in two games.



But that's the best part: a power play goal counts the same as an even-strength goal, and teams can be successful wherever they produce goals as long as they're producing goals consistently. Compare Pittsburgh (26% of their offense on the power play) and Anaheim (19%). Both generate their offense in different ways, and both lead their conferences. Nashville can be successful with a high proportion of its offense (27%) coming on the power play, and the more bulk offense they can generate, the better. Forsberg would help Nashville in that regard, substantially more than playing the Hyde version of Bourque with our two best forwards.

Whether it be Forsberg or Beck or someone else, we should be seeing someone come up from Milwaukee soon unless another trade is forthcoming. Carrying 12 forwards for an extended period of time is playing with fire, because one tweak or tumble in warm-ups and Bartley is playing rover.
A PP goal does count the same as a ES goal ... however when his ONLY goal is a 5on3, he's failed to produce a single primary point 5on4, or score a single ES goal in his career some issues in his game become evident. He's allegedly a "scorer" yet produces less at ES than Rich Clune or Matt Hendricks in similar amounts of NHL ice time with more time played with higher lines. He has a knack for being on the ice for goals against in both the NHL and AHL.

The kid needs to work on his game on North American ice and against men. The options are giving him some time in the AHL to work on his game or keep putting him in situations with the Preds that result in reduced ice time after mistakes cost the team as he learns. There is a reason for a partnership with a developmental league such as the AHL and Forsberg's presence there now illustrates why.

Depending on PP goals when near the bottom of the league (26th) in penalties drawn is not a formula for success. It actually highlights the problem with Predators scoring ... too dependent on a situation that it finds itself in too rarely. Top ten PP%, bottom five 5on5 goals for/against ratio, 24th in 5on5 goals for.


Last edited by 101st_fan: 01-17-2014 at 09:59 AM.
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01-17-2014, 01:31 PM
  #957
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A few random thoughts. Stalberg looks totally frustrated and pissed. Plays single digit minutes on the 4th line while Nystrom, Bourque, and Spals get major time on scoring lines. He must be at odds with Trotz. While he may deserve it (we don't know what's going on behind the scenes) this has to be chilling to future FA scoring forwards.

Not too much of a Canadian bias on the NHL Network. This morning we have ESPN giving Carter *** Hutton the #1 Play of the day. Meanwhile, the NHL Network rates an overly dramatic glove save by Price the #1 play and Hutton #2. Then in the 3 Stars of the Night, Weber gets #3 and Price gets #1 with 40 saves (yet he gave up 4 goals: a .900 save percentage). Why? Cuz the Habs beat the Sens in a wild 5-4 game and Price made a lot of saves. Meanwhile, Webs dominates against his almost-BFF-Team, the Flyers in Philly. Oh Canada .......

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01-17-2014, 02:25 PM
  #958
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That Hutton save wasn't as good as the one I've seen that Price made last night (not sure if it's the same one). Did it look cooler than Price's? Absolutely. But Hutton made a mistake and happened to get lucky as he dove back in and it went right into his glove. It looks awesome and the exposure is cool, but that save is 95% luck and he got himself in a bad situation to begin with.

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01-17-2014, 03:05 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by ILikeItILoveIt View Post
A few random thoughts. Stalberg looks totally frustrated and pissed. Plays single digit minutes on the 4th line while Nystrom, Bourque, and Spals get major time on scoring lines. He must be at odds with Trotz. While he may deserve it (we don't know what's going on behind the scenes) this has to be chilling to future FA scoring forwards.

Not too much of a Canadian bias on the NHL Network. This morning we have ESPN giving Carter *** Hutton the #1 Play of the day. Meanwhile, the NHL Network rates an overly dramatic glove save by Price the #1 play and Hutton #2. Then in the 3 Stars of the Night, Weber gets #3 and Price gets #1 with 40 saves (yet he gave up 4 goals: a .900 save percentage). Why? Cuz the Habs beat the Sens in a wild 5-4 game and Price made a lot of saves. Meanwhile, Webs dominates against his almost-BFF-Team, the Flyers in Philly. Oh Canada .......
I agree. I do not know what Nystrom is even doing off of the 4th line. His goal last night was a lucky deflection. The same kind of goal that Hornqvist usually gets.

People say they are disappointed that Stalberg hasn't done more, but when your paired Gaustad/Hendricks(I know he's gone now)/Clune your not going to do much production wise. He gets a handful of games with a scoring line then gets dropped back to the bottom line again. I honestly feel like he thought he was going to be used alot better than he was in Chicago otherwise he wouldn't have come here.

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01-17-2014, 03:48 PM
  #960
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I agree. I do not know what Nystrom is even doing off of the 4th line. His goal last night was a lucky deflection. The same kind of goal that Hornqvist usually gets.
I ... what?

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01-17-2014, 08:10 PM
  #961
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I agree. I do not know what Nystrom is even doing off of the 4th line. His goal last night was a lucky deflection. The same kind of goal that Hornqvist usually gets.

People say they are disappointed that Stalberg hasn't done more, but when your paired Gaustad/Hendricks(I know he's gone now)/Clune your not going to do much production wise. He gets a handful of games with a scoring line then gets dropped back to the bottom line again. I honestly feel like he thought he was going to be used alot better than he was in Chicago otherwise he wouldn't have come here.
Other than the MEMORABLE quick answer goal against his former teams, how many times has the birthday boy FINISHED a rush in the many chances he's had (let's not mention that penalty shot effort Sunday) ??? Certainly, he would have better opportunities with better linemates, but where is this talent that was supposedly buried??

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01-17-2014, 10:11 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
People say they are disappointed that Stalberg hasn't done more, but when your paired Gaustad/Hendricks(I know he's gone now)/Clune your not going to do much production wise. He gets a handful of games with a scoring line then gets dropped back to the bottom line again. I honestly feel like he thought he was going to be used alot better than he was in Chicago otherwise he wouldn't have come here.
IIRC he was put in a top 6 role in Chicago and didn't produce. So they bumped to the 3rd and 4th lines and finally wound up a healthy scratch. I'd say he's producing here like he did for the Hawks. If he didn't produce with the talented forwards in Chicago, he's not going to light it up with the Preds mediocre forwards.

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01-17-2014, 10:14 PM
  #963
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IIRC he was put in a top 6 role in Chicago and didn't produce. So they bumped to the 3rd and 4th lines and finally wound up a healthy scratch. I'd say he's producing here like he did for the Hawks. If he didn't produce with the talented forwards in Chicago, he's not going to light it up with the Preds mediocre forwards.
fantastic speed, zero sense & hands

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01-18-2014, 04:10 PM
  #964
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Play him 16 minutes a game on a top line for 5 straight games and then lets talk. We got $4mm a year tied up in him and he has speed you can't teach. Why is it only our talented players who don't produce get shelved but our grinders who don't produce remain in the spots with enormous patience.

I had a conversation with Barry once about Cliff Ronning. I like him and said so. Barry tactfully seemed to imply that Cliff let the other guys do the dirty work in the corners and along the boards and he just hung waiting for the pass so he could shoot. There seems to be a deep resentment for scorers who don't work hard (see Rads). I get that to some extent but the fact is, some players have a gift for finishing and most players work hard but can't finish. We're awash with non-finishers but hard workers.

Why is the talent of scoring not valued unless it's accompanied by grit? Yet grit is valued regardless of scoring ability. Trotzonian

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01-18-2014, 04:40 PM
  #965
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Why is the talent of scoring not valued unless it's accompanied by grit? Yet grit is valued regardless of scoring ability. Trotzonian
A decade and a half of trying to figure out the Mystery of Trotz and we are no closer to finding the answer

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01-19-2014, 08:57 AM
  #966
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I think Stalberg is a guy who thinks he is better than he really is. He showed several times in Chicago that he doesn't have the talent to hold down a top six role, but he always thought he had. Which was one of the reasons why he decided to sign elsewhere, because he wanted a top six role and power-play minutes.

I haven't watched Nashville a lot this season, but from reading here it sounds like his career in Nashville is following the same path as it did in Chicago. He is put in a top six role, fails to take the chance and when his ice time is reduced he gets pissed off and Trotz (just like Quenneville in Chicago), puts him in the doghouse.

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01-19-2014, 09:36 AM
  #967
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I think Stalberg is a guy who thinks he is better than he really is. He showed several times in Chicago that he doesn't have the talent to hold down a top six role, but he always thought he had. Which was one of the reasons why he decided to sign elsewhere, because he wanted a top six role and power-play minutes.

I haven't watched Nashville a lot this season, but from reading here it sounds like his career in Nashville is following the same path as it did in Chicago. He is put in a top six role, fails to take the chance and when his ice time is reduced he gets pissed off and Trotz (just like Quenneville in Chicago), puts him in the doghouse.
Not entirely true. He started the season on the 4th line for a handful of games due to an injury that cost him a good portion of TC. He then "moved up" onto a line with 1 'scorer' and 1 'grinder'.

He hasn't really been on a true offensive line for almost the entirety of the season. Truthfully, most of our lines are built for 'balance', which means someone with stone hands, a 2 way center, and someone who is supposedly capable of scoring goals. We do not have a tenth of the offensive talent as Chicago does on any of our lines.

Stalberg's speed creates a ridiculous amount of scoring chances. Take out his first 10-12 games of the season where he is going from a wide open, offensively gifted game in Chicago, to a droll, tight defensive minded hockey system, and I think you get a better vision of what he will bring. I think he will end up being around a 40-50 point player for most of his time here. I am okay with that. I like him. He was a gamble that hasn't quite lived up to expectations, but I still view it as a worthwhile endeavor. Don't get me started on the other FA acquistions.

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01-19-2014, 10:25 AM
  #968
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All of which highlights what an under appreciated asset we had with Erat in his prime years.

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01-19-2014, 11:01 AM
  #969
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All of which highlights what an under appreciated asset we had with Erat in his prime years.
with that lone exception in Game 5 vs the Chicago Blackhawks ... yeah lets play the puck in the middle as time is expiring, nothing bad will hap... oops

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01-19-2014, 11:33 AM
  #970
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Why is the talent of scoring not valued unless it's accompanied by grit? Yet grit is valued regardless of scoring ability. Trotzonian
Except that's not true; see Kariya, Paul. Or Dumont, JP. Or Arnott, who got the bloody C for heavens sake, and to this day is still the softest 6'4" 230lb athlete to ever play a professional sport.

Young guys, he expects to turn into complete players, not just ride on their O skills; We've not seen a truly gifted young F yet on this team to know if he'd let them slide or not. (and no, that Russian was not - he was a good (not great) goal scorer, but the rest of his O game was just meh and his skating was abysmal) Stahlberg ain't young and is not O gifted - he needs to play a complete game on this team, just like Smith and Willy - both better than Stahlberg, btw.

as for the grit comment, I believe it comes from the idea that O can go into a slump, that hot goalies do shut down better teams, etc. - if you hustle and are hard to play against, you should be in the majority of games, even when your scorers aren't scoring - or when you don't have the O talent you need. It's not about grit regardless - cause that's clearly not true - plenty of gritty guys over the years that didn't see much ice time cause they didn't bring a more complete game - it's about not giving the other teams a free pass and the ability to let their talent control games.

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01-19-2014, 12:32 PM
  #971
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How about we get some "grit" that can actually score goals ala Brad Marchand.

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01-20-2014, 01:27 PM
  #972
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Weber named alternate captain for team Canada.

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01-21-2014, 08:19 AM
  #973
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Stalberg has been given very little opportunity to succeed. It became pretty clear in the very early going that Trotz wasn't crazy about him.

He's not fitting in, but let's not pretend he's had tons of chances. I can't count how many nice passes he's made that were botched by Clune or Hendricks.

I fully expect that he gets traded this summer. This isn't the first time Poile and Trotz had a personnel disagreement.

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01-21-2014, 09:55 AM
  #974
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Stalberg has been given very little opportunity to succeed. It became pretty clear in the very early going that Trotz wasn't crazy about him.

He's not fitting in, but let's not pretend he's had tons of chances. I can't count how many nice passes he's made that were botched by Clune or Hendricks.

I fully expect that he gets traded this summer. This isn't the first time Poile and Trotz had a personnel disagreement.
I don't buy this because in the interviews after all the signings it seemed that Poile had listened to Trotz's input and these are the guys that they both targeted. How he's used Stalberg is up for debate of course but I will say this, while Cullen hasn't been great this year, he has a knack for getting the pucks to guys in good position to score. He helped get Smith going. Maybe he will get Stalberg going too. What a weird line combo though, Cullen, Stalberg and Clune. It worked and Goose, Bourque and Nystrom played a strong game too.

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01-21-2014, 10:12 AM
  #975
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Okay, I am old and unhip. What is the music we use during warm ups? We start out with something go into U2 and then something else. Any help?

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