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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Phoenix XCVIII: 5tayin' Alive

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07-29-2013, 04:42 PM
  #351
MNNumbers
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
The Forbes report from ~ May-June indicated the option existed.



Well, it's just following the Money. Fortress loans RSE $120 MM. RSE gives that to the NHL at closing, ownership transferred from league to RSE (+the $45 MM cash). COG pays RSE $14MM per year to operate the arena, guaranteed money. RSE writes a check to Fortress to service their debt on the $120 MM, which just happens to be ~$14 MM.

The NHL turns around and gives RSE a line of credit for $85 MM, which if drawn upon, would have no interest due during the first 5 yrs, iirc. The NHL also guarantees $20 MM in revenue transfer, perhaps partially funded by the Industry Fund.
The 20M is combined from RevTrans and DevFund? i don't understand how that works in the new CBA. It's too confusing for me to follow the accounting and lawyer language. Do you have a link that helps explain it?
Thanks.

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07-29-2013, 04:48 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
The 20M is combined from RevTrans and DevFund? i don't understand how that works in the new CBA. It's too confusing for me to follow the accounting and lawyer language. Do you have a link that helps explain it?
Thanks.

That's kdb's forte, and the main reason I put up with his insolence.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...49&postcount=1


As for the mechanism:
http://www.nhlpa.com/inside-nhlpa/co...ning-agreement


Article 49, pg 199.

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Old
07-29-2013, 05:03 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
The 20M is combined from RevTrans and DevFund? i don't understand how that works in the new CBA. It's too confusing for me to follow the accounting and lawyer language. Do you have a link that helps explain it?... Thanks.
The Development Fund was set-up at the behest of the NHLPA during this past Lockout to be used by the NHL to aid in the "growth & development of the game in struggling markets". Fehr initially looking for a budget of $160M, the league instead carving that in half, capped for now at $80M. These funds can be dispersed at the Commissioners leisure, with I believe an over-site board comprised of players and members of the BOG's, though thats fairly loose. Technically entirely possible the $85M Line of Credit the NHL's providing, in one shot, this years Development Fund proceeds in their entirety. No idea. Then perhaps next year, 2015 or whenever, if RSE requires a top-up, perhaps some more largesse from the Development Fund whilst simultaneously receiving Revenue Sharing proceeds that anyone can now receive no longer subject to minimum Seasons Ticket Volumes & so on, and if more than $20M is required, likely no problemo. How much more do you need? Socialism at its finest MNN.

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07-29-2013, 05:07 PM
  #354
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The Development Fund was set-up at the behest of the NHLPA during this past Lockout to be used by the NHL to aid in the "growth & development of the game in struggling markets". Fehr initially looking for a budget of $160M, the league instead carving that in half, capped for now at $80M. These funds can be dispersed at the Commissioners leisure, with I believe an over-site board comprised of players and members of the BOG's, though thats fairly loose. Technically entirely possible the $85M Line of Credit the NHL's providing, in one shot, this years Development Fund proceeds in their entirety. No idea. Then perhaps next year, 2015 or whenever, if RSE requires a top-up, perhaps some more largesse from the Development Fund whilst simultaneously receiving Revenue Sharing proceeds that anyone can now receive no longer subject to minimum Seasons Ticket Volumes & so on, and if more than $20M is required, likely no problemo. How much more do you need? Socialism at its finest MNN.
So, no definition of a limit for the RevTrans and only a vague oversight on the DevFund for struggling markets. Is that correct?

If so, really no limit to what Bettman might pour down the tubes to finance the team in Glendale. After the CoG is already financing the loan from Fortress. Yep, this is a Major League, I tell you. Very Professional...

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07-29-2013, 05:19 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
So, no definition of a limit for the RevTrans and only a vague oversight on the DevFund for struggling markets. Is that correct?

If so, really no limit to what Bettman might pour down the tubes to finance the team in Glendale. After the CoG is already financing the loan from Fortress. Yep, this is a Major League, I tell you. Very Professional...
Since you were asking before, in the lease agreement under the definition of "operating revenues" is the following "Operating revenues do not included revenues allocable to the team owner under the GAAP or other reasonable allocation principles, including but not limited to allocations pursuant to the NHL's CBA."

Then in section 3.3 it states, in summary, that the team owner and arena manager has the right to terminate the lease agreement if they accumulate 50 million in operating losses during the 5 fiscal years calculated according to standard GAAP practices.

In my profession opinion, that means that while the 15 million counts towards revenues, any revenue sharing or development fund would not.

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07-29-2013, 05:20 PM
  #356
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Laugh if you will but they've been pretty effective in preventing/stifling/stopping an even lower wattage attack of KJ. There is no doubt they've been very very effective in the pro-Coyotes arena.
Sure, and Marie Laveau's voodoo spell has been pretty effective in keeping Lake Pontchartrain from freezing.

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07-29-2013, 05:22 PM
  #357
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So, no definition of a limit for the RevTrans and only a vague oversight on the DevFund for struggling markets. Is that correct?
Pretty much correct yes. Gary Bettman essentially running the league autocratically,
nepotists calling the shots, a sort of private hydra headed kleptocracy....

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07-29-2013, 05:40 PM
  #358
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When Fortress agreed to finance this monstrosity the team was to receive $15 million per season and could bolt after 5 years with the full amount in its coffers. Now part of it has to be paid to Global Spectrum and if the out-clause is exercised they may owe Glendale money too. Therefore Fortress's position is somewhat diminished.
Right, and since their position is diminished you would expect that they would want to make up that value in some way. They don't write checks the same way Glendale does...

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Originally Posted by cobra427 View Post
Not the first business/rodeo for anyone in the RSE group, and running an NHL team is just not complicated. It is a pretty basic business, no atom splitting required. Are there risks? Sure, but they have been quantified and accepted, nobody is blind, all big boys...
If it just weren't for that pesky matter of generating a profit everything would be grand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
Laugh if you will but they've been pretty effective in preventing/stifling/stopping an even lower wattage attack of KJ. There is no doubt they've been very very effective in the pro-Coyotes arena.
They deserve some cupcakes! Yay!

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07-29-2013, 07:59 PM
  #359
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Cities Begin Hiring Again

"Cities across the U.S. are starting to hire new teachers, firefighters and police officers as a deep and prolonged slide in local-government employment appears to have bottomed out four years after the recession ended."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

whoops, not Glendale

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07-29-2013, 08:07 PM
  #360
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MOD

I see talking about the ordeal, that is what this thread is about, but I don't see why anyone has to complain about the fact they're not moving anytime soon anymore, move on.


Last edited by Fugu: 07-29-2013 at 08:13 PM. Reason: ...
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07-29-2013, 08:13 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by NMFlyer1998 View Post
MOD

I see talking about the ordeal, that is what this thread is about, but I don't see why anyone has to complain about the fact they're not moving anytime soon anymore, move on.
Because its not done yet. And if it does get done, that just means a new chapter in this sorry saga

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07-29-2013, 08:37 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by enarwpg View Post
Correct, Coyote ticket prices are 57.7% of the Wild's ticket prices..... And these guys think they can turn it around.....
Looks like all the southwest teams have similar ticket prices. Compare the AZ Diamondbacks to the Toronto Blue Jays tickets. Baseball is cheaper in Arizona and so is hockey. Basketball is not though.

http://www.kshb.com/dpp/sports/baseb...baseball-teams

http://www.businessinsider.com/avera...the-day-2013-2

I really am having trouble connecting your dots on this. Are you saying that Minnesota is not fiscally responsible and doesn't know how to run a business? Maybe you should compare the Coyotes profit/loss to a team Dallas or Anaheim.

I can't speak for other but to me it looks like you are grabbing at any information that fits your way of thinking rather than find out all the information and make a sound conclusion or argument.

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07-29-2013, 08:40 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by NMFlyer1998 View Post
MOD

I see talking about the ordeal, that is what this thread is about, but I don't see why anyone has to complain about the fact they're not moving anytime soon anymore, move on.
yeah we're just here for the wrap up. We'll have 99 threads and the move ain't one. We relocationists will find another team to pick on and then we'll circle back to the Coyotes in a couple of years.

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07-29-2013, 09:16 PM
  #364
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Right, and since their position is diminished you would expect that they would want to make up that value in some way. They don't write checks the same way Glendale does...
I don't know what Fortress is doing or saying behind closed doors. I wonder if there is any agreements between Fortress and the NHL requiring the NHL to not be as hung up on keeping the team in Glendale like they were last time.

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07-29-2013, 09:20 PM
  #365
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yeah we're just here for the wrap up. We'll have 99 threads and the move ain't one. We relocationists will find another team to pick on and then we'll circle back to the Coyotes in a couple of years.
I think we need a clock that will help us 'circle back' to keep track of all of the various 'angles' to this saga...


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07-29-2013, 09:35 PM
  #366
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I think we need a clock that will help us 'circle back' to keep track of all of the various 'angles' to this saga...
Speaking of angles, any anecdotal inf or news surrounding Ken Jones Referendum efforts? He's basically got until like tomorrow, Wednesday maybe to get those signatures in for verification if he hopes to stop this thing dead in its tracks no?

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07-29-2013, 09:46 PM
  #367
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Speaking of angles, any anecdotal inf or news surrounding Ken Jones Referendum efforts? He's basically got until like tomorrow, Wednesday maybe to get those signatures in for verification if he hopes to stop this thing dead in its tracks no?

I think puck daddy had a post saying they were declared invalid due to not following some procedure. Love how the rules seemingly go out the window in some cases, but are strictly enforced in others. But oh well, that's government for you.

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07-29-2013, 09:53 PM
  #368
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Speaking of angles, any anecdotal inf or news surrounding Ken Jones Referendum efforts? He's basically got until like tomorrow, Wednesday maybe to get those signatures in for verification if he hopes to stop this thing dead in its tracks no?
I think the only way Jones gets enough signatures is with a gun

With so many open police positions he might just get away with it,

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07-29-2013, 10:01 PM
  #369
Killion
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I think the only way Jones gets enough signatures is with a gun
Thats about what it'll take, because I just found this:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/29...easeJuly29.pdf

So essentially, he's got all of app 48 hours to collect over 6800 signatures with an August 1st Deadline, as what he has collected thus far are invalid... again, he failed to follow the simple guidelines (on top of which its suggested he's only got about 680 signatures). Unbelievable.

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07-29-2013, 10:27 PM
  #370
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yeah if what GlendaleFirst says is true than the referendum is dead so the only obstacles left are RSE themselves failing to close or the BOG having a mutiny against Bettman and voting no (does the phrase cold day in hell mean anything).

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07-29-2013, 10:55 PM
  #371
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Thats about what it'll take, because I just found this:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/29...easeJuly29.pdf

So essentially, he's got all of app 48 hours to collect over 6800 signatures with an August 1st Deadline, as what he has collected thus far are invalid... again, he failed to follow the simple guidelines (on top of which its suggested he's only got about 680 signatures). Unbelievable.
That's GlendaleFirst's opinion, not a legal ruling on Ken Jones' petition.

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07-30-2013, 12:00 AM
  #372
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That's GlendaleFirst's opinion, not a legal ruling on Ken Jones' petition.
Yes Im aware of that, but it certainly would seem that if even remotely accurate not much chance he'll succeed. Not unless there have been efforts made elsewhere & throughout Glendale over the last few weeks, and thus far, no one seems to have encountered anything. No one knocking on their doors. Nothing on the streets nor out in public but for Jones at the Library that Ive heard or read about.

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07-30-2013, 12:57 AM
  #373
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Yes Im aware of that, but it certainly would seem that if even remotely accurate not much chance he'll succeed. Not unless there have been efforts made elsewhere & throughout Glendale over the last few weeks, and thus far, no one seems to have encountered anything. No one knocking on their doors. Nothing on the streets nor out in public but for Jones at the Library that Ive heard or read about.
Yeah, he was never going to get the necessary # of signatures in the first place. The whole PAC naming bit is inconsequential.

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07-30-2013, 02:27 AM
  #374
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Thats about what it'll take, because I just found this:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/29...easeJuly29.pdf

So essentially, he's got all of app 48 hours to collect over 6800 signatures with an August 1st Deadline, as what he has collected thus far are invalid... again, he failed to follow the simple guidelines (on top of which its suggested he's only got about 680 signatures). Unbelievable.
680 signatures would sound about right to me, Killy. I think people in Glendale are probably pretty tired of the whole thing, and a referendum is the last thing they want.

What they probably want most is for the whole darn thing to go away.

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07-30-2013, 05:14 AM
  #375
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680 signatures would sound about right to me, Killy. I think people in Glendale are probably pretty tired of the whole thing, and a referendum is the last thing they want.

What they probably want most is for the whole darn thing to go away.
It would go away if they would just sign the stupid petitions.

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