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How do you guys feel about their camp- gut feelings

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Old
09-27-2003, 07:52 AM
  #1
DKH
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How do you guys feel about their camp- gut feelings

The casual Bruins and Boston sports fan has seen the 9-0 loss to the Wings score and subconsciously reinforced their thoughts of JJ is cheap, the Broons don't care about wininng mantra and moved on to the serious stuff of Pats and Sox. (hey, I was at the Ortiz walk off the other night; and have Pats season tix for many years so its not just Broons to me- I consider it a three headed tie although the Sox winning would be the ultimate) Anyways, my take on camp has been pretty good- some highs, some lows but a few interesting things.

Highs- the Patrice Bergeron performance; Toivonen's (and even Raycrofts) performance but more importantly skills that have everyone including those that get paid to make judgements just ga-ga over him. Jeff Jillson's performance gets the third spot here- and it may be the most important all things considered. He is all that is left for McLeav'n and even beyond that he is needed in a BIG way to become at worst a GOOD player on any scouts assessment- and hopefully more definative such as solid, consistent and well rounded.

Sammy's wrist appears healed which is very huge and with Joe, Murray and Rolston give the Broons 4 guys that can measure up to any teams top half dozen forwards. Samsonov healthy and doing his magic is huge. If the Broons get off to a decent start and Joe and Sammy are healthy I'd market their butts all over New England- Super Hero comic books; posters, bobble heads, shirts- these guys are an organization dream.

Zinovjev arriving would be postive (I lost a bet at work because I didn't think he existed and he seems to stand out a bit- but he's still hard to gauge at this time.....Jurcina has impressed many posters and Broons personnel and appears to have the requisite skills to project as a NHLer and certified draft steal for MOC.

LOWS- The holdout to Boynton to me is number one; he's their third best player, best defenseman and guy teammates really like. He's a captain-type of guy and even veterans say he's an immensely talented guy and great kid. Thats enough for me.....they have to get him in soon; I'd be on the phone right now if I was MOC.

Lapointe's injury stinks but I don't believe its an omen; Marty just needs to get back to the simplicity and energy game he plays well. Trying to score 27 goals again should be the last thing on his mind. Its a speed bump most likely but still a negative.

Potvin- the bottom line is he has given up 13 goals but many were most likely goals Hasek would have given up. Sullivan said he was outstanding but any movement in the next week for a goalie says it was lip service. The Broons saw what happened in Detroit to Potvin- if I was the Broons I'd want to see him again in net here Thursday night and go with Toivonen the other half of the game to see how they both stack up against the Wings/Tigers money.

Hilbert has been a downer- and its likely he will atleast start in Providence; he is lucky in that Sullivan likes him and knows him so if he starts out well he'd be one of the first callups.

All in all a good camp when you consider that what we are finding out is that some of the kids (specifically Jillson, Toivonen, Bergeron and Jurcina) may be the real deals. If thats true then things could be very interesting around here.

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09-27-2003, 08:54 AM
  #2
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I am really starting to question whether Hilbert will ever be a legit NHL'er or if he is destined to be a Steve Maltais, Reggie Savage Don Biggs type of guy who is a top level player in the minors but never really makes an impact in the NHL. I know he was injured a bit, so I'm not totally writing him off just yet.

Secondly, although common sense would indicate otherwise, I just can't help rooting for the B's to break camp with both Bergeron and Toivonen on board. I know it won't happen, probably in either case, but imagine what a great story it would be if they both stuck all year and had reasonably successful seasons.

Third, I think (I) we, may have forgotten that Sammy missed most of the season last year, and what an impact this had. When they were really bad in from late November to February, you'd have to assume that his ppg. would have come in handy and maybe added a win or 5 to the tally. Also don't underestimate the effect that his ability has on the game, even when he doesn't score. The fact that he's such a threat often means that the opposition is simply playing defense for much of the time that he is on the ice.

Lastly, I don't expect anything significant from the B's this year, but I will say that given the fact that they have 2 or 3 of the 25 or so best forwards in the game, they should be in every game that they play. If the defense can jell, (and Nick gets signed) then that will help immensely.

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09-27-2003, 08:55 AM
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DKH, I think you hit he nail square on the head with Lapointe. Points shouldnt even be a concern. He has to play his game, not worry about that damn contract, and be a leader, get under the skin of the opposition, and continously take the body and do all the other little things we *need* from him. Sure goals would be nice, but we scored plenty of goals last year and he didnt even contribute really.

Once he does this, stops pressing and plays his game his goals will come, but for now we need the other facets of his game in order to succeed.

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09-27-2003, 08:56 AM
  #4
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I still think we'll pick up Burke or another goalie before opening night...
especially if Potvin's performance doesn't improve!!!

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09-27-2003, 09:01 AM
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They had the Asst. GM on WBZ last night before the game and he said the score could've been a lot worse against the Wings and it wasn't all Potvin's fault. So I'm taking that into consideration for now, until his next game. He can't get any worse and can only get better.

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09-27-2003, 09:25 AM
  #6
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I think that the guys need to start being held accountable for the mistakes that they make on the ice. I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, but with the same mistakes being constantly made one has to wonder if they are being addressed.

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09-27-2003, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadahockeygirl
I think that the guys need to start being held accountable for the mistakes that they make on the ice. I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, but with the same mistakes being constantly made one has to wonder if they are being addressed.

Agreed. Preseason or not, sounds like some lazy play going on.


P.S.-Am I the only one who thinks that Smurfette was pretty hot? I wouldn't mind being "Papa" Smurf......

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09-27-2003, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKH
The casual Bruins and Boston sports fan has seen the 9-0 loss to the Wings score and subconsciously reinforced their thoughts of JJ is cheap, the Broons don't care about wininng mantra and moved on to the serious stuff of Pats and Sox. (hey, I was at the Ortiz walk off the other night; and have Pats season tix for many years so its not just Broons to me- I consider it a three headed tie although the Sox winning would be the ultimate) Anyways, my take on camp has been pretty good- some highs, some lows but a few interesting things.

Highs- the Patrice Bergeron performance; Toivonen's (and even Raycrofts) performance but more importantly skills that have everyone including those that get paid to make judgements just ga-ga over him. Jeff Jillson's performance gets the third spot here- and it may be the most important all things considered. He is all that is left for McLeav'n and even beyond that he is needed in a BIG way to become at worst a GOOD player on any scouts assessment- and hopefully more definative such as solid, consistent and well rounded.

Sammy's wrist appears healed which is very huge and with Joe, Murray and Rolston give the Broons 4 guys that can measure up to any teams top half dozen forwards. Samsonov healthy and doing his magic is huge. If the Broons get off to a decent start and Joe and Sammy are healthy I'd market their butts all over New England- Super Hero comic books; posters, bobble heads, shirts- these guys are an organization dream.

Zinovjev arriving would be postive (I lost a bet at work because I didn't think he existed and he seems to stand out a bit- but he's still hard to gauge at this time.....Jurcina has impressed many posters and Broons personnel and appears to have the requisite skills to project as a NHLer and certified draft steal for MOC.

LOWS- The holdout to Boynton to me is number one; he's their third best player, best defenseman and guy teammates really like. He's a captain-type of guy and even veterans say he's an immensely talented guy and great kid. Thats enough for me.....they have to get him in soon; I'd be on the phone right now if I was MOC.

Lapointe's injury stinks but I don't believe its an omen; Marty just needs to get back to the simplicity and energy game he plays well. Trying to score 27 goals again should be the last thing on his mind. Its a speed bump most likely but still a negative.

Potvin- the bottom line is he has given up 13 goals but many were most likely goals Hasek would have given up. Sullivan said he was outstanding but any movement in the next week for a goalie says it was lip service. The Broons saw what happened in Detroit to Potvin- if I was the Broons I'd want to see him again in net here Thursday night and go with Toivonen the other half of the game to see how they both stack up against the Wings/Tigers money.

Hilbert has been a downer- and its likely he will atleast start in Providence; he is lucky in that Sullivan likes him and knows him so if he starts out well he'd be one of the first callups.

All in all a good camp when you consider that what we are finding out is that some of the kids (specifically Jillson, Toivonen, Bergeron and Jurcina) may be the real deals. If thats true then things could be very interesting around here.

You hit the nail on the head everywhere. I'm pretty pumped about the kids, especially Toivonen and Bergeron. I'm a little disappointed that Morrisonn got sent down so quickly.

As for the vets, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed with Potvin's performance so far, but I'm not overly concerned. He hasn't played since January, and I liken it to an ace baseball pitcher getting rocked in his first few preseason games.....

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09-27-2003, 10:49 AM
  #9
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Hilbert

From the moment I saw him play his first game in the NHL I said to myself "what is all the hype about?", wondering how in the world some people actually compared him to Chris Drury. And I still believe that Andy is a bust waiting to happen. He just seems to lack a LOT of effort, which is sad cause he does have some skill.

Morrisonn, I still can't understand why he was sent down so quick, as he looked real good in camp, I guess the Bruins saw something in real NHL action that made them decide to send him down. But as we saw with Toivonen he could be called back up at anytime.

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09-27-2003, 11:00 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8
You hit the nail on the head everywhere. I'm pretty pumped about the kids, especially Toivonen and Bergeron. I'm a little disappointed that Morrisonn got sent down so quickly.

As for the vets, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed with Potvin's performance so far, but I'm not overly concerned. He hasn't played since January, and I liken it to an ace baseball pitcher getting rocked in his first few preseason games.....
`bout sums it up for me too. I believe it's too early to judge, but there are some observations to make. Like DKH said, there are several things to be happy about. Toivonen could be the long waited answer to Andy Moog. He may even be better. That's enough right there to excite just about any fan. And Bergeron looks like one the early steals of the draft. If he's only getting better, then the B's could have themselves a serious 1-2 punch to build around for years to come. That's huge because with Toivonen and a defense stocked with Boynton, Jillson, Jurcina, Stuart, Jonsson & Morrisonn, they could finally have the makings for a true champion. A few other thoughts about camp:

- As for the kids, I have been a bit surprised that Samuelsson hasn't created more of a stir. I was also hoping for more from Vernarsky. The biggest question for me is whether Zinovjev will be on the roster once camp is done, and if so, where.

- Sounds like Jillson will be able to make the step. This is big news. It also sounds like Jurcina is continuing to make smooth progress. This is fantastic. A late rounder like him impressing at camp before he's even spent time in the AHL only spells good things for the future. Seems like he's a sure thing to make the NHL.

- The long runnng issue at center may still be a burning question that carries through the season, unless someone really steps up over the last 4 games or so. O'C may have to acquire someone, if he doesn't, the B's will have yet another fundamental weakness like year's past.

- Berard is also a question. If he doesn't rejoin, then I will be interested to see how well the B's transition and carry the puck up the ice. With the increased speed, this too could be problematic.

- Lastly, I am curious to see how well the coaching shapes up. Sullivan and MacIver are inexperienced, and when they face adversity (if they haven't already), we'll see what they are really made of. I believe in Sullie's work ethic and integrity, but I don't know how well that will translate into success on the ice.

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09-27-2003, 11:58 AM
  #11
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My 2 Cents

Positives:

* Play and developement of the kids....Toivonen, Jillson, Jurcina and Bergeron to be specific


Negatives:

* Dont care attitude on the ice by the vets. These guys should be leading my example and anyone who has watched Murray and others this camp has seen very little of that "we need to break through this year" attitude. Its like they are just happy being on the team. No motivation seemingly.

* Goal play is flat out awful as we knew it would be.

* Defense has been awful, as we SHOULD have been expecting.

Later

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09-27-2003, 12:10 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Loring
From the moment I saw him play his first game in the NHL I said to myself "what is all the hype about?", wondering how in the world some people actually compared him to Chris Drury. And I still believe that Andy is a bust waiting to happen. He just seems to lack a LOT of effort, which is sad cause he does have some skill.

Morrisonn, I still can't understand why he was sent down so quick, as he looked real good in camp, I guess the Bruins saw something in real NHL action that made them decide to send him down. But as we saw with Toivonen he could be called back up at anytime.
Kirk's article on this week's hockeyjournal does a great job of explaining why Morrisonn was sent down; he just needs time physically and professionally but he is getting there and the Broons coaching staff and braintrust sees a very bright future- but its not his time, yet.

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09-27-2003, 12:13 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Loring
Morrisonn, I still can't understand why he was sent down so quick, as he looked real good in camp, I guess the Bruins saw something in real NHL action that made them decide to send him down. But as we saw with Toivonen he could be called back up at anytime.
My guess is that they decided they knew what they had with Morrison, so let him go back to Providence, and play 25 minutes a night, while they spend more time looking at Kultak, Jillson, and Jurcina, trying to figure out what those guys can bring to the table.

You can't send all 4 of them out there every night in preseason, so send Morrison down, and then after you've finished making evaluations on Jurcina, Jillson, and Kultak, then if you decide you need Morrison, bring him back.

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09-27-2003, 12:35 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Loring
From the moment I saw him play his first game in the NHL I said to myself "what is all the hype about?", wondering how in the world some people actually compared him to Chris Drury. And I still believe that Andy is a bust waiting to happen. He just seems to lack a LOT of effort, which is sad cause he does have some skill.
I kind of have a similar feeling about the guy, but in fairness he has been injured for the majority of this camp and a pulled groin can certainly lead to a percieved lack of effort.

I thought he was great in his first game though. He didn't play the body much but he had a real sense of where to be around the net, which paid off with a goal.

He's still a wait and see type. He puts up too much numbers in the AHL to label him a bust at his age, but there are still a few steps he needs to take, no doubt.

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09-27-2003, 01:10 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff from Maine
Positives:

* Play and developement of the kids....Toivonen, Jillson, Jurcina and Bergeron to be specific


Negatives:

* Dont care attitude on the ice by the vets. These guys should be leading my example and anyone who has watched Murray and others this camp has seen very little of that "we need to break through this year" attitude. Its like they are just happy being on the team. No motivation seemingly.

* Goal play is flat out awful as we knew it would be.

* Defense has been awful, as we SHOULD have been expecting.

Later
Jeff,
From what I've read only Potvin has been awful. Toivonen has played great, Raycroft has been above average and Shields has been average.

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09-27-2003, 02:51 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarge88
Jeff,
From what I've read only Potvin has been awful. Toivonen has played great, Raycroft has been above average and Shields has been average.
sarge,

Potvin being awful is the most relevant to us at this point in time. Hannu s/b real good in time, and Raycroft could be decent for us in a 20-25 game role, but Potvin is the key to us for having a successful season. Potvin was signed with the intention of him playing 50-60 games and leading us into the play-offs, not to be a 20 game bench warmer......

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09-27-2003, 05:46 PM
  #17
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I understand, but I didn't expect a whole lot from Potvin anyway, so him struggling pales in comparison to how well Toivonen has played throughout camp and how well Raycroft has played at times.

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09-28-2003, 03:38 AM
  #18
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Well...

Based on what I have actually read, Toivonen (I agree) has been the best of the lot so far.

But, IMO, should they break camp with him as one of their tenders, the Bruins brass will hit a new low in terms of intelligence! And man, have they everr proven to be inept as it is! Toivonen, IMHO, is NOT ready to be a #1 NHL goalie. He needs GAMES in Providence to learn professional hockey and how to LIVE as a pro!

As far as the other tenders are concerned...

I am probably too harsh on the players...I expect a lot. That said, Sullivan himself said that Potvin played a terrific game against NYI amd played well against Detroit. I dont agree necessarily, but those are things he said.

I guess that speaks volumes about his expectations for this team.

Later

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09-28-2003, 05:36 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff from Maine
Based on what I have actually read, Toivonen (I agree) has been the best of the lot so far.

But, IMO, should they break camp with him as one of their tenders, the Bruins brass will hit a new low in terms of intelligence! And man, have they everr proven to be inept as it is! Toivonen, IMHO, is NOT ready to be a #1 NHL goalie. He needs GAMES in Providence to learn professional hockey and how to LIVE as a pro!

As far as the other tenders are concerned...

I am probably too harsh on the players...I expect a lot. That said, Sullivan himself said that Potvin played a terrific game against NYI amd played well against Detroit. I dont agree necessarily, but those are things he said.

I guess that speaks volumes about his expectations for this team.

Later
Jeff, I am not sure if you are trying to start a trash Sullivan bandwagon, but it sure looks like it. While I am not Potvin fan, maybe...JUST maybe he is actually taking into consideration that the guy hasnt played since January of last year and is coming off knee surgeory.

Did you ever *consider*that. Heck, did you even see the games?

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09-28-2003, 06:18 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruwinz20
Jeff, I am not sure if you are trying to start a trash Sullivan bandwagon, but it sure looks like it. While I am not Potvin fan, maybe...JUST maybe he is actually taking into consideration that the guy hasnt played since January of last year and is coming off knee surgeory.

Did you ever *consider*that. Heck, did you even see the games?
also, sullivan's personality isn't remotely close to keenan's. iron mike would tell potvin he sucked and that he was a sieve after a game like that. some people think it's honorable to call it like they see it, but others never take to that kind of treatment. sully knew that the whole team was awful, so why take potvin to task as well? i think positive reinforcement is much better than the robbie ftorek method, which means to yell and scream at a guy for messing up. wonder why he's not coaching anymore??

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09-29-2003, 04:45 AM
  #21
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The one question I have with Potvin is how well he will play behind a defense with tons of holes in it. If a guy is getting shelled with 40 shots a night and letting in 5, I'd say he's doing better than the guy who is facing 10 shots and letting in 2, wouldn't you? It might be a skewed recollection on my part, but hasn't Potvin performed at his best with a stronger D than what the B's have put in front of him at this point in time?

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09-29-2003, 06:33 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Loring
From the moment I saw him play his first game in the NHL I said to myself "what is all the hype about?", wondering how in the world some people actually compared him to Chris Drury. And I still believe that Andy is a bust waiting to happen. He just seems to lack a LOT of effort, which is sad cause he does have some skill.

Morrisonn, I still can't understand why he was sent down so quick, as he looked real good in camp, I guess the Bruins saw something in real NHL action that made them decide to send him down. But as we saw with Toivonen he could be called back up at anytime.
Morrisonn wasn't bad, he just had oodles of guys playing BETTER than him. Heck, to this point, Zdenak Kutlak has played better than Shaone. Morrisonn's value is that he's got offensive skills, so he could easily be converted into an offensive-minded guy at the NHL level, and his faults wouldn't be as glaring.

The defensive depth chart at camp, IMHO (non-attendees in parenthesis):

(Nick Boynton)
Sean O'Donnell
Dan McGillis
Hal Gill
Milan Jurcina
(Bryan Berard)
Jeff Jillson
Zdenak Kutlak
Shaone Morrisonn
Ian Moran
Rich Brennan


Agree about Hilbert though, he's gotta turn it up ten notches or go the way of the dodo. My guess is they give him 10-15 games with the big club, then dump him unless he's generating impressive offense.

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09-29-2003, 08:05 AM
  #23
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as an outsider (though live in mass - not a large B's fan), is martin samuelsson going to play or go to Providence again?

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09-29-2003, 01:36 PM
  #24
Jeff from Maine
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Bruwinz20

When it comes to me you are reading way too much into what I posted, again!

Just because I didnt flatter him, and in fact I disagreed with him, does NOT mean that that I am starting any Anti anything.

In the future please refrain from making unfair assumptions of my posts. That is a request of mine.

I do the same for you, please respond in kind. Thank you.

As for what I was saying....he stated that he thought the tenders looked quite good. I simply dont agree.

And for the record, I WAS at the Isles game in Bridgeport. So YES, I DO have first hand viewing as a point of reference.

Later

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