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Were the trades in 1996 necessary?

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Old
08-30-2013, 01:36 PM
  #1
Cursed Lemon
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Were the trades in 1996 necessary?

Simple question: did we need to trade away Paul Coffey, Dino Ciccarelli, and Keith Primeau in 1996 to get our Cups?

Paul Coffey was PPG as a defenseman for us at the time, Keith Primeau was an excellent player, and Dino Ciccarelli still had points left in him though he was at the decline of his career.

I don't have the faintest memory of contract terms going that far back, but considering that we essentially traded those three players away to acquire Brendan Shanahan, would we have at least secured those first two Cups with the help of those three players?

Remember, a good portion of our core at the time were young, such as Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Fedorov, Kozlov, McCarty, etc. And most of our "veterans" still had 10 years on them, like Yzerman and Larionov (who signed the following season).

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Old
08-30-2013, 01:50 PM
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Detroit Sports
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Why are you questioning something that worked out?

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08-30-2013, 01:55 PM
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SirKillalot
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As Shanahan was an important player for three cup wins, I'll say yes.

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08-30-2013, 01:56 PM
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Detroit Sports
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As Shanahan was an important player for three cup wins, I'll say yes.
What did the Whalers do with these players? Exacty /thread

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08-30-2013, 02:00 PM
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doublejack
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Are you serious?????

Shanahan was a HUGE addition to the team. Meanwhile, in 96 Coffey was a liability... he even had an "own goal"... and Primeau was a waste of space malcontent, that scored a single goal the entire playoffs, which was an empty-netter IIRC. Dino was nearing the end of a great run, and Homer more than adequately took his spot.

This is a no-brainer, really. It would take years for Primeau to become a playoff performer, and we instantly went over the top.

Next topic, please.

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08-30-2013, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
Are you serious?????

Shanahan was a HUGE addition to the team. Meanwhile, in 96 Coffey was a liability... he even had an "own goal"... and Primeau was a waste of space malcontent, that scored a single goal the entire playoffs, which was an empty-netter IIRC. Dino was nearing the end of a great run, and Homer more than adequately took his spot.

This is a no-brainer, really. It would take years for Primeau to become a playoff performer, and we instantly went over the top.

Next topic, please.
Dino didnt need to be traded (he was traded because they would've lost a player on waivers otherwise) what was needed was to get rid of Primeau who complained all the time and Coffey who became dead weight in his own zone. Murphy and Kocur were very important pieces too imo.

I wish we could've kept Burr too. Really liked him as a player (RIP)

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Old
08-30-2013, 02:17 PM
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Primeau was sort of blocked by Feds and Stevie and didn't like it.

Coffey couldn't play D to save his life. That Avs series in 96.. dear god lol.

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08-30-2013, 02:19 PM
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Orthodox Caveman
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Well Paul Coffey didn't help the Flyers during the 1997 finals. Watch game 2 you see Shanahan scoring the 2 on 1 goal to seal it at 4-2 and Coffey just throws his hands up like "Caaahm ooooon!!!!!"

Where was Coffey in the 6-1 creaming in game 3 when Shanahan assisted Hextall's own goal from behind the net?

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Old
08-30-2013, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroit Sports View Post
What did the Whalers do with these players? Exacty /thread
They flipped one of them for their captain that would lead them to two finals and win one....

Primeau for Rod Brind'Amour, just saying.


As per the OP question it worked out so yes it was probably the right move. Coffey was overrated at that point in his career, still a fabulous point producer but his defense had gotten to the point a serious contending team should not have wanted him.

Primeau was blocked and unhappy. Bowman had tried to trade Yzerman out of town as his first move to make space for Primeau, thank God that didn't happen.

Primeau also had just turned down a pretty lucrative extension back then if I remember right, he wanted out and they got a very good return for him.

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08-30-2013, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Simple question: did we need to trade away Paul Coffey, Dino Ciccarelli, and Keith Primeau in 1996 to get our Cups?

Paul Coffey was PPG as a defenseman for us at the time, Keith Primeau was an excellent player, and Dino Ciccarelli still had points left in him though he was at the decline of his career.

I don't have the faintest memory of contract terms going that far back, but considering that we essentially traded those three players away to acquire Brendan Shanahan, would we have at least secured those first two Cups with the help of those three players?

Remember, a good portion of our core at the time were young, such as Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Fedorov, Kozlov, McCarty, etc. And most of our "veterans" still had 10 years on them, like Yzerman and Larionov (who signed the following season).
This is a futile question.

There are of course 1 Million What if questions.

The good news is although those moves were made, and all were good players, The players that came back (mostly Shanny) DID HELP WIN.

Could the old players have helped won as well? MAYBE.

Who knows..... no one.

I like Shanahan... so good trade!
We won... so... who cares? I we trade away Datsyuk this season and won a cup... well lots of controversy. But The players you mentioned were not our stars. They were 2ndary players... so again... who cares.

P.S.

Bowman wanted a defensive team. Dino, Primeau and Ray Sheppard were all not known to be defensive. All were let go in a short period of time.
End result we won. There is only one REAL conclusion, their removal was important.

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08-30-2013, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
This is a futile question.

There are of course 1 Million What if questions.

The good news is although those moves were made, and all were good players, The players that came back (mostly Shanny) DID HELP WIN.

Could the old players have helped won as well? MAYBE.

Who knows..... no one.

I like Shanahan... so good trade!
We won... so... who cares? I we trade away Datsyuk this season and won a cup... well lots of controversy. But The players you mentioned were not our stars. They were 2ndary players... so again... who cares.

P.S.

Bowman wanted a defensive team. Dino, Primeau and Ray Sheppard were all not known to be defensive. All were let go in a short period of time.
End result we won. There is only one REAL conclusion, their removal was important.
Paul Coffey finished 5th in Norris voting the year he was traded and won the Norris the year before

sure sounds like a secondary player to me!

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Old
08-30-2013, 04:42 PM
  #12
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Paul Coffey was horrible at 1997 finals for Flyers. He was really past his prime and that was a great trade with a right timing.

Even without the 1997 Cup it would have been a great trade. Primeau didn't fit in the team because of the center logjam (Yzerman & Fedorov, best 1-2 punch with Sakic-Forsberg on that time), and he also suffered as a winger. It was time to replace him with some other asset (Shanahan).

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Old
08-30-2013, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Paul Coffey was horrible at 1997 finals for Flyers. He was really past his prime and that was a great trade with a right timing.

Even without the 1997 Cup it would have been a great trade. Primeau didn't fit in the team because of the center logjam (Yzerman & Fedorov, best 1-2 punch with Sakic-Forsberg on that time), and he also suffered as a winger. It was time to replace him with some other asset (Shanahan).
This.

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08-31-2013, 03:22 PM
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NHL Network is currently showing the triple-OT game from 1997 against the Ducks. This game answers that question pretty well.

Shanny is dominant with the puck. He's getting blanketed by Ducks defenders (and since it's 1997, they're getting away with a lot of hooking and holding) and with the shot taken away, he's making great passes to set up goals and chances. He's not even beating the hell out of people - he's just dominating.

You also don't have Coffey's ridiculous pinches and defensive brainfarts. The team is much more cohesive and plays defensive hockey as a unit. That was impossible with Coffey on the ice since he was stuck in the 80s.

Lapointe got Primeau's ice time and was really good in 1997 as well. You basically traded Coffey, Primeau, and Ciccarelli for Murphy, Lapointe, and Shanny. So much better.

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08-31-2013, 05:10 PM
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Yes.

Shanahan was a major cog.

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08-31-2013, 06:19 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroit Sports View Post
Why are you questioning something that worked out?

It's pretty easy to conclude that it worked out very well -- 3 Cups, so yes, it was necessary.

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Old
09-01-2013, 10:42 PM
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I like that the team had guts in '96 to change it up. After having such success that year I don't think most teams would mix up the roster has much as they did then. Wasn't the boys club like it has been the last 14 years.

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09-01-2013, 11:37 PM
  #18
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Quote:
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I like that the team had guts in '96 to change it up. After having such success that year I don't think most teams would mix up the roster has much as they did then. Wasn't the boys club like it has been the last 14 years.
The Wings hadn't won a cup then for 42 years in '96, in the past 14 years the Wings have won 4...

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09-02-2013, 12:35 AM
  #19
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Quote:
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I like that the team had guts in '96 to change it up. After having such success that year I don't think most teams would mix up the roster has much as they did then. Wasn't the boys club like it has been the last 14 years.
The Wings were desperate and considering all kinds of things -- including the trading of the captain.

Shanahan doesn't get as much love as Yzerman and Lidstrom, or even Fedorov, but to me those four were the foundation of the success the franchise enjoyed

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09-02-2013, 01:18 PM
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The Wings hadn't won a cup then for 42 years in '96, in the past 14 years the Wings have won 4...
I can wait to celebrate another Cup in 37 years.

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Old
09-02-2013, 09:14 PM
  #21
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There's a weird subculture of Red Wings fans (and I'm not saying the OP or anyone in this thread is necessarily included) who to this day seem disappointed the team traded Keith Primeau. I suspect this is based on the fact that he had the one good playoff run of his career shortly before retiring, and this has somehow clouded the minds of such people from the fact that he was an all-time bad playoff performer prior to that.

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Old
09-03-2013, 01:02 AM
  #22
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There's a weird subculture of Red Wings fans (and I'm not saying the OP or anyone in this thread is necessarily included) who to this day seem disappointed the team traded Keith Primeau. I suspect this is based on the fact that he had the one good playoff run of his career shortly before retiring, and this has somehow clouded the minds of such people from the fact that he was an all-time bad playoff performer prior to that.
I'd say that's a pretty small subculture as far as these things go. I certainly haven't heard any clamoring for Keith Primeau.

He went out strong -- but he really wasn't that bad a playoff guy. He was relegated to the third line behind Fedorov and Yzerman and produces about what you expect of a third line guy.
His first long Philly playoff wasn't bad. His second one sucked. His third was good.

It certainly does help your rep when you go out strong like he did

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