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2013 New Jersey Devils (Team/Player Discussion)-Offseason FA and trade talk Part XV

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Old
07-20-2013, 11:20 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
if you say Jagr was not good in the playoffs you are plain wrong and it shows to me you didn't watch the games

just because he didn't put up big numbers does not mean he wasn't playing well. he controlled long stretches of games.
Then I guess we can agree to disagree because I've already posted a few articles. Probably best to maybe ask the Bruins fans?

He tired. It was obvious. He was lost in stretches. He wasn't awful but he certainly didn't play well. He was average. I understand he was a little unlucky and should have had maybe 4 or 5 goals according to his shooting percentage.

But the counter arguments from Devils Trap are pretty weak. He's saying, "I didn't watch the games," yet continues to tell me Jagr played in their top 6 all playoffs long. So if we're going to use the "well you didn't watch!" counter argument let's at least be factually accurate and not expose yourself as someone who may not have watched (and this obviously isn't directed as you).

His own linemates - professional hockey players - said that he was struggling and blamed the flu for it. I mean, I don't understand why we can't just be honest about his play in the playoffs. It's certainly unfair to use the playoffs as the sole judgement for what he might bring to New Jersey. That might be a stronger argument.

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07-20-2013, 11:21 PM
  #152
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what do I care what articles have to say? I watched the games. he was controlling the play a LOT even if he was not scoring. especially on the PP.

its not like we're going to be asking the guy to be the #1 option and play 20 minutes a night. he'll play 17 minutes a night and play the PP. thats it.

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07-20-2013, 11:21 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
if you DON'T think the team is win now I don't know what to tell you.

- would Lou have given out contracts to guys like Clowe or Ryder if we WEREN'T win now?

- would Lou have traded a #9 overall pick in a deep draft for a top 10 goalie if we WEREN'T in win now mode?
No doubt he's doing everything he can to avoid losing a lottery pick but at the end of the day the team he's put together for next year is going nowhere.

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07-20-2013, 11:22 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by DEVILSEBO View Post
No doubt he's doing everything he can to avoid losing a lottery pick but at the end of the day the team he's put together for next year is going nowhere.
I am sure you thought the team that was 2 wins away from winning the Cup was going to be a strong contender the previous July as well.

if you think we're going nowhere why even watch the games then?

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07-20-2013, 11:24 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
what do I care what articles have to say? I watched the games. he was controlling the play a LOT even if he was not scoring. especially on the PP.

its not like we're going to be asking the guy to be the #1 option and play 20 minutes a night. he'll play 17 minutes a night and play the PP. thats it.
So you're saying he played well in the playoffs because he controlled play. What do you mean by controlled play?

Maybe I can get an idea of what you think he did well and we can go from there:

Quote:
The 41-year-old is far from a skating-speed burner at this point in his career, but the 6-foot-3, 240-pounder has appeared markedly slower as the pace has quickened. It's also seemed as though he's lost some of his ability to fight off defenders while he possesses the puck. There’s also the question of how much Jagr can create offensively with linemates in Kelly and Peverley who sometimes struggle to finish off plays.

Jagr's also done some curious things on the ice of late. During one shift in Game 2 he simply decided he was done for the shift after losing his stick and returned to the bench when the Bruins equipment staff was trying to hand him a replacement to allow him to stay on the ice. Jagr also went through a couple of replacement sticks on the bench after breaking a stick in Game 1, seemingly as particular about his equipment as Marc Savard famously was during his time with the Bruins.
http://www.csnne.com/blog/bruins-tal...f-games-bruins

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07-20-2013, 11:25 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by DEVILSEBO View Post
No doubt he's doing everything he can to avoid losing a lottery pick but at the end of the day the team he's put together for next year is going nowhere.
Now that's a bit harsh. Jagr for a year really isn't that bad but there are better options out there, given the contract lengths. This team could definitely surprise, we don't need the negativity.

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07-20-2013, 11:25 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
if you DON'T think the team is win now I don't know what to tell you.

- would Lou have given out contracts to guys like Clowe or Ryder if we WEREN'T win now?

- would Lou have traded a #9 overall pick in a deep draft for a top 10 goalie if we WEREN'T in win now mode?
It is extremely pessimistic to think this team isn't in a win now mode.

Saying you are in a win now mode doesn't mean everything thinks we are top contenders/potential president's trophy winners. It means we plan to be competitive, to make the playoffs, and maybe make noise when we get there. You mean to put your best team on the ice and make the playoffs, not showcase guys for trades for futures, or blow teams up for rebuilds.

Not one person on this board is calling us legit cup contenders...but we weren't in 2012 either so that doesn't mean a whole lot. We were in a win now mode though.

The intention is to make the playoffs and make as much noise as possible.

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07-20-2013, 11:25 PM
  #158
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to sum up, that blurb says he is old and he made one weird play in one game.

again, what does that prove to me?

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07-20-2013, 11:25 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVILSEBO View Post
No doubt he's doing everything he can to avoid losing a lottery pick but at the end of the day the team he's put together for next year is going nowhere.
I think you're wrong on that. Unless the coach looks like a novice again, and gives entitlement starts to Marty all year even if he's stinking up the joint, and doesn't bench Fayne for Harrold and Volchenkov again, I think the team can go somewhere.

Of course we need another forward IMO to get the ball rolling.

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07-20-2013, 11:26 PM
  #160
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Here's a guy who has been involved in professional hockey for a long time:

Quote:
Instead, analyst and resident awful former general manager Mike Milbury went off, going on a 60-second rant in which he teed off on current Bruin and future Hall of Famer Jaromir Jagr. The text of Milbury's inspired soliloquy is below.

"He can’t skate in this series. They gotta get him off of this line. If he can do something when he gets the puck standing still, fine. But he can’t forecheck, he can’t participate with this line. Two very good players with him. He turned the puck over repeatedly. He can’t get anything going here. Can’t sustain any momentum with him on the line. He's not quick enough to get in on the forecheck, and if his hands are gonna act like that on him, he's got a problem. I think the Boston Bruins gotta recognize this. Don't be looking at Jaromir Jagr the legend. This is Jaromir Jagr in real life, in this period. And it was not pretty to look at. There's no hustle there to get to the bench. Absolutely lazy in a Stanley Cup Final. And if you think that's aberrant behavior, watch this: can't get in on the forecheck...now he comes back to the bench, watch him. Top of your screen, making no effort to get back into the play. That to me is a guy that's too tired to play in this final. That's a guy that has to be replaced."
http://www.stanleycupofchowder.com/2...ry-wrong-again

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07-20-2013, 11:28 PM
  #161
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That's also the guy who gave Yashin a monsterous contract and traded Luongo for Oleg Kvasha.

I do think the guy needs seriously protected minutes, but at the same time they're in a position where they have money they have to throw against the wall.

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07-20-2013, 11:29 PM
  #162
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Mike Milbury. The GM who traded away Chara, Luongo, and others for a bunch of trash. The worst GM of all time perhaps. After seeing the way he did business, I don't really listen to anything he says anymore.

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07-20-2013, 11:30 PM
  #163
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the funniest part of all that is that blurb is from a Bruins blog and its called "Mike Milbury, wrong again"

read the rest of it, dude.

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07-20-2013, 11:30 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
I think you're wrong on that. Unless the coach looks like a novice again, and gives entitlement starts to Marty all year even if he's stinking up the joint, and doesn't bench Fayne for Harrold and Volchenkov again, I think the team can go somewhere.

Of course we need another forward IMO to get the ball rolling.
Pete wasn't giving Marty entitlement starts last year? You have been saying this, but I don't understand where you are getting it from. He cycled Marty and Moose as well as he should of. If it is because Kinkaid never got a start over Moose, well do you really think Kinky was going to have better results (I don't).

I mean Pete pulled Marty out of a playoff game. I honestly can't complain with how he uses his goalies. We won't have 8 defensemen anymore so we don't have to worry about long stretches with guys scratched either.

Also I am sorry PSEG...I think you were making a good counter argument here with Jagr's playoff performance, but quoting Milbury was not the best. Especially on a blog about how Milbury doesn't know what he is talking about.

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07-20-2013, 11:30 PM
  #165
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Fun Fact: Yashin is still getting 2 million dollars for the next 2 years from the Islanders

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07-20-2013, 11:30 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
Mike Milbury. The GM who traded away Chara, Luongo, and others for a bunch of trash. The worst GM of all time perhaps. After seeing the way he did business, I don't really listen to anything he says anymore.
Pretty awful GM, but he's not a bad analyst. To be honest I know the exact play he is referring to because I watched the playoffs and Jagr was dead tired.

I mean I'm just going to agree to disagree with the "Jagr played well" bunch and hope that if he does end up in Jersey, he helps us make the tournament.

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07-20-2013, 11:31 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
the funniest part of all that is that blurb is from a Bruins blog and its called "Mike Milbury, wrong again"

read the rest of it, dude.
I read it. And if you read the comments and even the poll, 46% of the guys there think he was average.

It's just a fan, like you and me, who comments on that quote.

I read it. We disagree. We can move on.

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07-20-2013, 11:31 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePSEGPowerPoster View Post
Here's a guy who has been involved in professional hockey for a long time:



http://www.stanleycupofchowder.com/2...ry-wrong-again


Did you read the article ??

It says Mike Milbury Wrong Again Soo 98 % of fans said he has been fine, and you use it to HELP your argument ??? Lol

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07-20-2013, 11:32 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Devils Trap View Post


Did you read the article ??

It says Mike Milbury Wrong Again
I responded to that. I know what it said.

Tell me more about how Jagr played in the top 6 all playoffs long.

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07-20-2013, 11:33 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Emperoreddy View Post
Pete wasn't giving Marty entitlement starts last year? You have been saying this, but I don't understand where you are getting it from. He cycled Marty and Moose as well as he should of. If it is because Kinkaid never got a start over Moose, well do you really think Kinky was going to have better results (I don't).

I mean Pete pulled Marty out of a playoff game. I honestly can't complain with how he uses his goalies. We won't have 8 defensemen anymore so we don't have to worry about long stretches with guys scratched either.
I wasn't talking about last year. I am afraid he will do that this year, though he wasn't shy about pulling Marty for Moose in 11-12.

I keep having this feeling that he'll be harder on Schneider like he is on a lot of the young guys, and that if he goes back to Marty after Schneider struggles, that he'll stick with Marty until he struggles even worse.

Sorry but I like Pete, but I can't help but be a little worried when I see the way some of the younger players were treated. Hopefully I'm wrong, and worrying for nothing. We shall see.

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07-20-2013, 11:34 PM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePSEGPowerPoster View Post
I responded to that. I know what it said.

Tell me more about how Jagr played in the top 6 all playoffs long.
Well if you dont think Marchand and Bergeron are top 6 players I dont know what to tell you

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07-20-2013, 11:34 PM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePSEGPowerPoster View Post
I responded to that. I know what it said.

Tell me more about how Jagr played in the top 6 all playoffs long.
Come on I get your argument and see its merits, but you have to admit that is a bit funny either way.

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07-20-2013, 11:34 PM
  #173
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That's like Matt Millen criticizing Calvin Johnson for a lack of effort

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07-20-2013, 11:35 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Devils Trap View Post
Well if you dont think Marchand and Bergeron are top 6 players I dont know what to tell you
You seriously didn't watch the games.

Your quote was: "they didn't remove him from their top 6." I responded to you with evidence that he NEVER PLAYED ON THEIR TOP 6. HE WAS A THIRD LINER. (caps)

And now you're trying to back track and putting down two people who weren't his line-mates?

Yea. I'm going to bed.

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07-20-2013, 11:36 PM
  #175
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Come on I get your argument and see its merits, but you have to admit that is a bit funny either way.
I guess I can see that. What it showed me more than anything is that it isn't as black and white as I thought it was. Certainly a gray area. some thing he did play well, others think he was average, some people think he didn't belong on the ice.

My original post was simple - he didn't play well, he didn't play awful - he was somewhere in the middle.

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