HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Top 20 Flyers Prospects, #6

View Poll Results: 6th best prospect?
Nick Cousins 62 77.50%
Petr Straka 5 6.25%
Tye McGinn 8 10.00%
MA Bourdon 1 1.25%
Jason Akeson 1 1.25%
Marcel Noebels 0 0%
Brandon Manning 0 0%
Taylor Leier 0 0%
Frederic Larsson 0 0%
Kyle Flanagan 0 0%
Valeri Vasiliev 0 0%
Reece Willcox 0 0%
Oliver Lauridsen 2 2.50%
Mark Alt 1 1.25%
Maxim Lamarche 0 0%
Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-23-2013, 02:49 PM
  #1
BillyShoe1721
Terriers
 
BillyShoe1721's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,612
vCash: 4800
Send a message via AIM to BillyShoe1721
Top 20 Flyers Prospects, #6

1. C Scott Laughton(77.36%)
2. D Samuel Morin(59.70%)
3. D Robert Hagg(69.74%)
4. D Shayne Gostisbehere(66.30%)
5. G Anthony Stolarz(48.15%)
6. C Nick Cousins(77.22%)
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.


Last edited by BillyShoe1721: 07-24-2013 at 07:09 PM.
BillyShoe1721 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 03:06 PM
  #2
FlyersFan61290
Registered User
 
FlyersFan61290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 8,399
vCash: 500
Voted Cousins, if he wins I'll be going Straka next.

FlyersFan61290 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 03:12 PM
  #3
BernieParent
Registered User
 
BernieParent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,002
vCash: 500
Where do I write in Goulbourne?

BernieParent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 03:13 PM
  #4
sobrien
RAFFLCOPTER
 
sobrien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Jersey/Memphis
Country: United States
Posts: 6,515
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Voted Cousins, if he wins I'll be going Straka next.
ditto

Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Where do I write in Goulbourne?
On your forehead

sobrien is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 03:23 PM
  #5
King Forsberg
21 68 88 16 44 28
 
King Forsberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 5,125
vCash: 300
With what's left, this should be the most unanimous vote yet.

King Forsberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 04:30 PM
  #6
jd2210
Registered Non User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Great White North
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,501
vCash: 500
Easiest vote of the poll: Cousins.

I'd say add Heeter or Johnston. (I've been assuming with my suggestions that neither Raffl or Holmstrom will be added due to age)

jd2210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 05:14 PM
  #7
Stizzle
Registered User
 
Stizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,795
vCash: 500
Cousins. After this one, it's going to be all over the place. An argument could be made for a lot of different guys.

Stizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 05:17 PM
  #8
Hockeypete49
How you like me now!
 
Hockeypete49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: South Jersey
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 4,454
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Where do I write in Goulbourne?
I have him rated higher than some on that list right now.

Hockeypete49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 05:20 PM
  #9
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
 
LegionOfDoom91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stizzle View Post
Cousins. After this one, it's going to be all over the place. An argument could be made for a lot of different guys.
I think Straka goes next & then really it's a toss up from there. I would go with Straka, McGinn, Noebels, & Leier to round out the top 10 personally.

LegionOfDoom91 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 05:22 PM
  #10
Damaged Goods
Registered User
 
Damaged Goods's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,026
vCash: 500
Re-posting CHL numbers from the last thread:

Age 16
Nick Cousins -- 67 GP, 32 P
Tye McGinn -- N/A

Age 17
Nick Cousins -- 68 GP, 68 P
Tye McGinn -- 59 GP, 11 P

Age 18
Nick Cousins -- 65 GP, 88 P
Tye McGinn -- 48 GP, 30 P

Age 19
Nick Cousins -- 64 GP, 103 P
Tye McGinn -- 50 GP, 62 P

Age 20
Nick Cousins -- N/A
Tye McGinn -- 42 GP, 64 P

Damaged Goods is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 05:26 PM
  #11
JDinkalage Morgoone
U of South Flurrida
 
JDinkalage Morgoone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 308 Negra Arroyo Ln.
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 11,379
vCash: 50
I go McGinn just because he's got experience and has shown that his game has a decent chance of translating to the NHL.

__________________
"Help was not promised, lovely girl. Only death."
JDinkalage Morgoone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 05:30 PM
  #12
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
 
LegionOfDoom91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Re-posting CHL numbers from the last thread:

Age 16
Nick Cousins -- 67 GP, 32 P
Tye McGinn -- N/A

Age 17
Nick Cousins -- 68 GP, 68 P
Tye McGinn -- 59 GP, 11 P

Age 18
Nick Cousins -- 65 GP, 88 P
Tye McGinn -- 48 GP, 30 P

Age 19
Nick Cousins -- 64 GP, 103 P
Tye McGinn -- 50 GP, 62 P

Age 20
Nick Cousins -- N/A
Tye McGinn -- 42 GP, 64 P
That's pretty irrelevant considering neither of them will be big time point producers at the next level. I voted for Cousins because he has a little more upside but I don't see him becoming anything special at the next level.

LegionOfDoom91 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 05:36 PM
  #13
Damaged Goods
Registered User
 
Damaged Goods's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,026
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
That's pretty irrelevant considering neither of them will be big time point producers at the next level. I voted for Cousins because he has a little more upside but I don't see him becoming anything special at the next level.
And your reason for discounting the possibility that there could be an appreciable offensive difference between Cousins and McGinn at the pro level?

Damaged Goods is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 05:40 PM
  #14
JDinkalage Morgoone
U of South Flurrida
 
JDinkalage Morgoone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 308 Negra Arroyo Ln.
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 11,379
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
And your reason for discounting the possibility that there could be an appreciable offensive difference between Cousins and McGinn at the pro level?
I dunno, I don't see Cousins becoming another Marchand. I hope he does, but Marchand seems to have elevated his game to beyound only being a pest. I think Cousins will be an above average scoring pest (above average as in above the average pest, not above average scoring in general.)

JDinkalage Morgoone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 05:44 PM
  #15
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
 
LegionOfDoom91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
And your reason for discounting the possibility that there could be an appreciable offensive difference between Cousins and McGinn at the pro level?
Cousins' skating & size are concerns. Hell, he won't even make the NHL if he doesn't learn how to play defense.

I just don't put as much stock into stats especially from Juniors, they only tell half of the story if that.

LegionOfDoom91 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 05:47 PM
  #16
markzab
Registered User
 
markzab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA.
Country: United States
Posts: 4,358
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to markzab
Surprised Raffl isnt even on the list.

markzab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 05:48 PM
  #17
FlyersFan61290
Registered User
 
FlyersFan61290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 8,399
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
I dunno, I don't see Cousins becoming another Marchand. I hope he does, but Marchand seems to have elevated his game to beyound only being a pest. I think Cousins will be an above average scoring pest (above average as in above the average pest, not above average scoring in general.)
Idk the puck just follows this kid and he's got some skill too. I see Cousins as a 35+ pt guy who will irritate the **** out of the opposing players.

FlyersFan61290 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 05:53 PM
  #18
JDinkalage Morgoone
U of South Flurrida
 
JDinkalage Morgoone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 308 Negra Arroyo Ln.
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 11,379
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Idk the puck just follows this kid and he's got some skill too. I see Cousins as a 35+ pt guy who will irritate the **** out of the opposing players.
Don't get me wrong, I hope so!

JDinkalage Morgoone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 06:12 PM
  #19
Stizzle
Registered User
 
Stizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by markzab View Post
Surprised Raffl isnt even on the list.
I'm really not sure what the criteria is for being in the poll, but if MA Bourdon and Kyle Flanagan are listed, so should Raffl.

Stizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 07:50 PM
  #20
Damaged Goods
Registered User
 
Damaged Goods's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,026
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
I dunno, I don't see Cousins becoming another Marchand. I hope he does, but Marchand seems to have elevated his game to beyound only being a pest. I think Cousins will be an above average scoring pest (above average as in above the average pest, not above average scoring in general.)
There's a biiiiiig gap between Marchand and McGinn offensively. The NHL equivalency of McGinn's AHL numbers is about 15 points per 82. Marchand is at 50 points per 82 at the NHL level. If you think Cousins is closer to Marchand than he is to McGinn, he is the easy choice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Cousins' skating & size are concerns. Hell, he won't even make the NHL if he doesn't learn how to play defense.

I just don't put as much stock into stats especially from Juniors, they only tell half of the story if that.
Cousins has 3 years to catch up to McGinn in terms of getting stronger and more positionally sound.

The most lucrative talent you can bring to an NHL roster is scoring ability, and Cousins has shown he's far more advanced on that front.

Damaged Goods is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 08:07 PM
  #21
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
 
LegionOfDoom91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Cousins has 3 years to catch up to McGinn in terms of getting stronger and more positionally sound.

The most lucrative talent you can bring to an NHL roster is scoring ability, and Cousins has shown he's far more advanced on that front.
Dude, I'm not arguing if Cousins has more upside or is the better prospect right now over McGinn. I even said I voted for Cousins & would put Straka next over McGinn.

All I said is that posting their junior stats really means nothing. There's been plenty of guys who put up big numbers in Juniors & went on to do jack **** in the Pros. People look way too much into stats was my point.

Hell someone on here was questioning whether Nichushkin was worthy of top 10 selection earlier this year because he only put up a few points in the KHL this year. That's stat watching at its finest.

LegionOfDoom91 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 08:43 PM
  #22
Damaged Goods
Registered User
 
Damaged Goods's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,026
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Dude, I'm not arguing if Cousins has more upside or is the better prospect right now over McGinn. I even said I voted for Cousins & would put Straka next over McGinn.
Yet you are arguing that the main evidence for valuing Cousins over McGinn is irrelevant.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
All I said is that posting their junior stats really means nothing. There's been plenty of guys who put up big numbers in Juniors & went on to do jack **** in the Pros. People look way too much into stats was my point.
Well, you're wrong. Meaningful relationships between Junior scoring and NHL success have been shown to exist (see link for one of many studies). You can get useful data from Junior. You're going to get varying results with any method for projecting future results. That goes for scouting analysis, stats analysis, or any combination of the two. That doesn't mean you're just as well throwing out all the data.

http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2009/...r-predict.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Hell someone on here was questioning whether Nichushkin was worthy of top 10 selection earlier this year because he only put up a few points in the KHL this year. That's stat watching at its finest.
Take it up with them. We're talking about two players who both played Junior at typical ages.

Damaged Goods is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 09:39 PM
  #23
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
 
LegionOfDoom91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Yet you are arguing that the main evidence for valuing Cousins over McGinn is irrelevant.

Well, you're wrong. Meaningful relationships between Junior scoring and NHL success have been shown to exist (see link for one of many studies). You can get useful data from Junior. You're going to get varying results with any method for projecting future results. That goes for scouting analysis, stats analysis, or any combination of the two. That doesn't mean you're just as well throwing out all the data.

http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2009/...r-predict.html
Wait so you discredit Gostisbehere because of his draft position & physical traits despite putting up good numbers in college but if I do the same with Cousins it doesn't count? I don't get it.

My personal opinion is that Cousins won't be anymore than a 30 point guy max in the NHL because of his limitations. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see it.

I'm not buying your study here in the case of Cousins. Stats are half the battle.

LegionOfDoom91 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 10:12 PM
  #24
Damaged Goods
Registered User
 
Damaged Goods's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,026
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Wait so you discredit Gostisbehere because of his draft position & physical traits despite putting up good numbers in college but if I do the same with Cousins it doesn't count? I don't get it.
I never discredited Ghostisbehere. I said he hasn't proven that he's a top-tier prospect. 44 points in 77 ECAC games and a #78 overall selection sans outstanding physical traits do not a top tier prospect make.

If he does something like what Dan Boyle did in his Junior year (54 points in 40 games), or Justin Schultz (44 points in 37 games), or Jake Gardiner (41 P in 41 G) or even Jack Johnson (39 P in 36 G) while wowing scouts, then there will be a legitimate argument for Ghost as a premium prospect.

My argument is that to this point he simply does not possess the resume to make him a "top tier" prospect. I don't think he even possesses the resume to push him ahead of Cousins (who I do not view as "top tier" either).


Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
My personal opinion is that Cousins won't be anymore than a 30 point guy max in the NHL because of his limitations. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see it.

I'm not buying your study here in the case of Cousins. Stats are half the battle.
That's a far cry from calling the stats I provided irrelevant and meaningless. I put them up here because I believe they are meaningful and add value to the conversation, not because I think they are the be-all, end-all. But in this case, there is such an overwhelming difference in the statistical resumes of two mid-round selections that I think it speaks volumes.

Damaged Goods is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-23-2013, 11:06 PM
  #25
Norm MacDonald
Registered User
 
Norm MacDonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 4,247
vCash: 500
Part of me thinks that a strong-skating, big forward (McGinn) is a safer bet than a somewhat undersized, poor skating forward (Cousins). Nevertheless, I still voted Cousins because he has a higher ceiling.

Norm MacDonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:37 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.