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Gunnarsson vs. Franson- If you could only keep 1

View Poll Results: If you could only keep 1, who would you keep?
Gunnarsson 55 25.11%
Franson 164 74.89%
Voters: 219. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-21-2013, 06:54 PM
  #51
Rob11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Even Strength Points

Franson
45 games 16 Points (82 game pace: 29)

Gunnarsson
37 games 15 Points (82 game pace: 33)
Gunnarsson has 11 points 5v5.

His points don't even come as primary assists. He only had 2. They are usually the result of two other players making the goal happen.

If we put him on the PP he wouldn't put up extra points the way Franson does. He would cause the team to get less as a whole.

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07-21-2013, 06:56 PM
  #52
WilliamNylander
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Franson. Gunnar is injury prone and never uses his size, which we need with Reilly and gards playing more mins and not being big defenseman

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07-21-2013, 06:56 PM
  #53
ULF_55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rielly4 View Post
Franson no doubt, i like Gunner, but Phaneuf Franson Rielly Gardiner is gonna be our core, with two defensive minded blueliners like Fraser, Gunner, Holzer, Granberg.

Realistically we are going to keep both.
That makes it easy.

Phaneuf-Gunnarsson
Gardiner-Franson
Rielly-Granberg

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Old
07-21-2013, 06:57 PM
  #54
ULF_55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob11 View Post
Gunnarsson has 11 points 5v5.

His points don't even come as primary assists. He only had 2. They are usually the result of two other players making the goal happen.

If we put him on the PP he wouldn't put up extra points the way Franson does. He would cause the team to get less as a whole.
Yes, but he did that against superior competition, not sheltered minutes on the 3rd. pairing.

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07-21-2013, 06:58 PM
  #55
Gike Bagpipe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Gunnarson has spent about two years playing top 2-3 defensive minutes on this team.

Franson has spent about 2-3 weeks playing those types of minutes.

Franson clearly has better offence and is a year younger. But we have plenty of offence from the blueline (Phaneuf, Gardiner, Liles, + Rielly coming up), whereas Gunnarson is our most consistent/reliable defenceman defensively.
And they both played for coaches that admittedly "misused" and or failed to evaluate their skill. Heck, Franson didn't really get to play under Wilscum and when he did the pressure of said coach had him handling the puck like a grenade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OptimusForever View Post
Gunnar. He plays some of the toughest minutes and does it well.

To the guy asking why Franson would have more value?
Because he's a offensive guy that's 6'5" tall. Teams that need offensive dmen will pay big for them, whereas we have an abundance of them coming.
Awesome! Where exactly are these 6'5 offensive D prospects who can play top 4 minutes that the Leafs have coming up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare Jewel View Post
There still there.


Won't surprise me one bit if Granberg is playing Montreal on Oct 1st.
So if Granberg is a reasonable comparison (and you believe will start the season w/the big club) to Gunnarson why do the Buds need to shell out 3-4 million in arbitration money?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
Never mind who can replace whom. You can't teach being 6'5" and being a great skater. Franson without doubt is who you keep, he has a higher ceiling.
Thank you Woodman, after all these years of just having Kabby to move the puck people now want to get rid of some the PMD's

Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Corsi Rel QoC - Defensemen

11th. Gunnarsson
128th. Franson

PP TOI
2nd. Franson

PK TOI
2nd. Gunnarsson

Their responsibilities couldn't be any different.
Right, Gunnar rode shotgun w/ Dion, and Cody kicked screamed and clawed for his minutes. When Koskrap and Lol-zer were eating up good minutes, good judgement Penguin.

CF +28 243gms 100pts. CG +2 224gms 69pts


Quote:
Originally Posted by CmonLeafs View Post
Exactly. Gunnarsson is a top 4 rock. Franson is a 3rd pairing guy with offensive upside.

Realistically I think they have pretty similiar value. Franson really stepped up his hitting game as the season went on.

However, this team, defensively, is weak, and losing Gunnarsson would be a huge hit.
When you say "rock" do you mean sheetrock? You know, gypsum, drywall, ready wall. How would losing Gunnar would be a huge hit? I think that there's more Defensive D-men in the system than OD's. Who could forget that pseudo hip check Franson threw on Crybaby

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07-21-2013, 06:58 PM
  #56
Mikeyg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob11 View Post
You made him sound like he was a bad skater in your other post. What the other guy said was he's a "great skater". Is he an amazing skater or an elite d skater like Reilly/Gardiner, no.

But the guy can skate and that's what I was showing.
no, you claimed he was a great skater, he is not great at skating, sorry.

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07-21-2013, 06:59 PM
  #57
Diatomic
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Gunnarsson is a better all-around defensemen than Franson, but if I had to keep one, it Would be Franson, mostly because his trade value is really high!

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07-21-2013, 07:01 PM
  #58
Pinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Even Strength Points

Franson
45 games 16 Points (82 game pace: 29)

Gunnarsson
37 games 15 Points (82 game pace: 33)
PP points don't count I guess.

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Old
07-21-2013, 07:02 PM
  #59
buntek
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Franson hands down!

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07-21-2013, 07:04 PM
  #60
Woodman19
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What it comes down to is Skill > Grit. It always has and always will be where the $$$ is allocated. As UFA's who gets more money and longer term? That is your answer.

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07-21-2013, 07:28 PM
  #61
blasted_Sabre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eb View Post
If the return on Franson is greater, does that not tell us he is the superior player?
No, it doesnt

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07-21-2013, 07:32 PM
  #62
JackJ
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Tough call. Easier to find a Gunnar then Franson so trade Gunnar.

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07-21-2013, 07:34 PM
  #63
ULF_55
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Originally Posted by JackJ View Post
Tough call. Easier to find a Gunnar then Franson so trade Gunnar.
Leafs tried without success to do that this year rather than have Gunnarsson play injured.

Granberg was in Europe unfortunately.

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07-21-2013, 07:35 PM
  #64
Eb
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
No, it doesnt
Thanks for the post. Explain in more detail because I disagree.

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07-21-2013, 07:39 PM
  #65
Duke Silver
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I feel that a player like Gunnarsson is more easily replaced than a player like Franson. I love the entire package and upside that Franson brings. He's got the potential and frame to become a dominant player in both ends. He just needs some further defensive coaching, and has already come a long way in that area.

I'd also add that as an asset, I feel Franson also has more trade value.

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07-21-2013, 07:41 PM
  #66
ULF_55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eb View Post
Thanks for the post. Explain in more detail because I disagree.
Why do you disagree? Can you explain in more detail?

Maybe it is a Descartes thing? I think it therefore it is?

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07-21-2013, 07:41 PM
  #67
Mikeyg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eb View Post
Thanks for the post. Explain in more detail because I disagree.
return can depend on need, it has nothing to do with the comparison of 2 players.... if a team needs an offensive d man then obviously they will pay more then franson then they would for gunnarson, it doesnt mean hes necessarily more valuable

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07-21-2013, 07:43 PM
  #68
Woodman19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyg View Post
return can depend on need, it has nothing to do with the comparison of 2 players.... if a team needs an offensive d man then obviously they will pay more then franson then they would for gunnarson, it doesnt mean hes necessarily more valuable
Thats why I asked who would fetch a larger contract as a UFA in a post people seem to of missed lol.

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07-21-2013, 07:45 PM
  #69
ULF_55
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I think with some more coaching that Gunnarsson will become a dominant player controlling the defensive zone. He's still quite young, less than a year older than Franson. If he played with a less reckless partner it would be much easier, and he could show his HIQ more. Lidstrom was 6'2", 190 lbs., and Gunnarsson is 6'2", 196 lbs.

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07-21-2013, 07:46 PM
  #70
Duke Silver
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Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
Thats why I asked who would fetch a larger contract as a UFA in a post people seem to of missed lol.
Let's put it this way: There's a reason Rob Scuderi makes less than Matthew Carle.

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07-21-2013, 07:48 PM
  #71
Woodman19
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You know things are good when we are arguing over 2 players who are both going to be on the team this year.

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07-21-2013, 07:55 PM
  #72
Drew311
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Franson is just going to get better, offensively and defensively. He's also developed a physical aspect to his game.

Gunnarsson is what he is. A reliable defenseman who can chip in offensively at times, but I don't think there's much room to grow.

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07-21-2013, 08:01 PM
  #73
Mikeyg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
Thats why I asked who would fetch a larger contract as a UFA in a post people seem to of missed lol.
Franson imo, higher production typically gets the bigger contracts imo, but I mean, there is no definitive stat thanks ranks dmen against each other, you kind of have to look at their play styles and measure it against the bar or average

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07-21-2013, 08:02 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Why do you disagree? Can you explain in more detail?

Maybe it is a Descartes thing? I think it therefore it is?
I won't disagree with your thinking Gunnarsson is worth more or less, but the Descartes thing is incorrect.

The "I think, therefore I am" referenced actually means something very different from "I think, therefore it is". It actually means that, if "I" think, or, rather, if "I" have the ability to think, then "I" must actually exist. "I think, therefore, I do exist".

Descartes wanted to think of things from the beginning and wanted to take nothing for granted. He had to start with the existence of himself. And that was the way he proved that he existed, to himself, in order to continue with his definition of the world.

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07-21-2013, 08:04 PM
  #75
Drew311
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Originally Posted by Pinto View Post
PP points don't count I guess.
Yeah, i guess an unbelievably accurate and effective shot isn't considered an asset. I really can't stand how he creates so many rebounds on the PP for our wingers like JVR and Lupul to pot gimme goals.

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