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No Rush For Rielly

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Old
07-21-2013, 11:30 PM
  #51
iPunch
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I really hope he isn't coddled. If he's good enough he should be in the NHL. He was in on something like 60% of his teams scoring. Most forwards aren't even that high. He's already made a mockery of the WHL, I really don't know what else he can learn playing against 16 year olds other than bad habits.

Like Gardiner, his elite skating will cover some of his warts coming into the league.

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07-21-2013, 11:37 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by pcruz View Post
So, we are in agreement, that rushing a player who is not ready is a mistake?
If he is not ready, he will go back to junior, as hard as it might be to swallow the bitterness.

That's exactly my first post on the matter.
I went back and read your first post again....you stated that we would ruin him and that the coach did not have the time etc....

Not that if he is ready that we send him back no matter what....so we are not in agreement....

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07-21-2013, 11:39 PM
  #53
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Gardiner's flaws were exposed rather well in the games he played during the regular season. He only began to improve in the playoffs, and his skating really gave the Bruins fits. Even then, he made some bad plays and eventually the play that ended the series.

Gardiner also had some time in the minor leagues where he learned to play a game that wasn't the same as in the juniors and went on to dominate in the AHL. And he still looked like a rookie player at many times in the NHL, especially in his decision making and getting caught up the ice on a rush.

I don't think the Leafs want to have 2 of those kinds of players on their back end, and having another AHL caliber defenseman in the last pairing with Rielly. Then again, Liles should play in the 3rd pairing, so Rielly with him wouldn't be awfully smart.

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07-21-2013, 11:41 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BIitz View Post
Why do you want him on a better WHL team? Playing less minutes and against lesser competition doesn't help your development at all. If you want him to take a reduced role like Reinhart had to, I guess you can hope he gets traded. I don't think playing 20 minutes at an inferior level is better than played 30+ though.



I can't see MJ trading him, or anyone trying to get him. The price would be absolutely ridiculous (See Brayden Schenn trade). It would virtually destroy a teams chance of being competitive for a few years.

As a side bar, I get the feeling most of you don't understand player development. The ones clamoring on about not rushing him can't tell me why he shouldn't be "rushed". And the one's who say he needs to work on his defensive habits really need to watch him play before coming to these assumptions.

Let him earn his spot, give him 9 games, go from there. Arguing about Rielly right now is pointless when most of the people saying they know what's best for his development probably don't even know his defense partner in MJ.
So true....

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07-21-2013, 11:44 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
I went back and read your first post again....you stated that we would ruin him and that the coach did not have the time etc....

Not that if he is ready that we send him back no matter what....so we are not in agreement....
I'm sorry, but you must have some terrible difficulty in reading comprehension.

My first words were, if I'm not mistaken.

Please, please, please, don't rush this kid and ruin him.

I don't know about you, but I think that means that if he's not ready, he should not be rushed.

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07-21-2013, 11:45 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by pcruz View Post
Gardiner's flaws were exposed rather well in the games he played during the regular season. He only began to improve in the playoffs, and his skating really gave the Bruins fits. Even then, he made some bad plays and eventually the play that ended the series.

Gardiner also had some time in the minor leagues where he learned to play a game that wasn't the same as in the juniors and went on to dominate in the AHL. And he still looked like a rookie player at many times in the NHL, especially in his decision making and getting caught up the ice on a rush.

I don't think the Leafs want to have 2 of those kinds of players on their back end, and having another AHL caliber defenseman in the last pairing with Rielly. Then again, Liles should play in the 3rd pairing, so Rielly with him wouldn't be awfully smart.
Liles is not even in the equation as seen by him charting shots in the press box....he will be gone shortly into the start of the season or sooner.....neither Gardiner nor Rielly will have anything to do with this decision.....Carlyle is not a fan of his game.

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07-21-2013, 11:49 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Liles is 5'10" 185 lbs (Source Hockeydb)
Gardiner 6'1" 173 lbs

Rielly is 6' .5" 205 lbs

You are concerned with Rielly and players like Lucic, while our back line is patrolled by guys like Liles and Gardiner who are smaller??? How are they surviving?
Gardiner is listed at 6'2 193 on wikipedia. I would guess that hockeydb might be out of date (maybe this was his size when drafted?)

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07-21-2013, 11:52 PM
  #58
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It's pretty simple. Rielly makes it (or not) on his own merit. He doesn't get a spot because he's Rielly, or because he was drafted fifth, or because he has to go back to the CHL if he doesn't make it.

If he shows he's ready at camp, give him a spot. If he doesn't, don't. It makes no sense to hand him a spot now, not does it make sense to talk about "ruining" him when lots of other guys his age have made the jump.

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07-21-2013, 11:56 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by pcruz View Post
I'm sorry, but you must have some terrible difficulty in reading comprehension.

My first words were, if I'm not mistaken.

Please, please, please, don't rush this kid and ruin him.

I don't know about you, but I think that means that if he's not ready, he should not be rushed.


pcruz
Please, please, please. Don't rush this kid to the NHL and destroy him. The NHL is not a develping league. The coaching staff have no time to teach, they have barely enough time to get the team to gel together and teach their preferred plays and all. I understand the frustration it must lead to in the front office. Seeing a player like this, with this much potential and not even being allowed to let him play in the AHL yet.

Sometimes though, you need to swallow the bitter pill in order for it to help you in the long run. This seems like one of those times. You sit the guy down and explain to him that unfortunately, even though he has nothing to learn at the junior level, he can't go to the minors yet to develop properly. So his options are to sit in the press box until such time as he's available to go to the AHL, sacrificing a roster spot and game time for the player, or send him back to junior.

And then, the choice is made and you take the lesser of 2 evils and send him to the junior team.

That was your first post and my reading comprehension is fine....no where in the above did you ever say if he is not ready.....in fact you made it clear that the coaching staff had no time to teach him how to play at the NHL level . That the NHL was not a development league.

So nice try but it is not my comprehension that is the issue but your back peddling....

Resorting to insults is not required when you contradicted your self....A sorry you are correct would do.

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07-22-2013, 12:02 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
I really hope he isn't coddled. If he's good enough he should be in the NHL. He was in on something like 60% of his teams scoring. Most forwards aren't even that high. He's already made a mockery of the WHL, I really don't know what else he can learn playing against 16 year olds other than bad habits.

Like Gardiner, his elite skating will cover some of his warts coming into the league.
The Leafs need to at least entertain the possibility that he has the ability to step into the NHL and make an impact. It's all up to his performance in camp. If he doesn't, fine. Send him back. But don't wuss out just because sending him back to junior as the safe option puts off fear of failure for a year.

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07-22-2013, 12:20 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by pcruz View Post
Gardiner's flaws were exposed rather well in the games he played during the regular season. He only began to improve in the playoffs, and his skating really gave the Bruins fits. Even then, he made some bad plays and eventually the play that ended the series.

Gardiner also had some time in the minor leagues where he learned to play a game that wasn't the same as in the juniors and went on to dominate in the AHL. And he still looked like a rookie player at many times in the NHL, especially in his decision making and getting caught up the ice on a rush.

I don't think the Leafs want to have 2 of those kinds of players on their back end, and having another AHL caliber defenseman in the last pairing with Rielly. Then again, Liles should play in the 3rd pairing, so Rielly with him wouldn't be awfully smart.




You have got to be kidding. The game was over when Boston got within two. I mean over ... done ... finished. The fat lady had sung!

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07-22-2013, 12:21 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipunch View Post
i really hope he isn't coddled. If he's good enough he should be in the nhl. he was in on something like 60% of his teams scoring. most forwards aren't even that high. He's already made a mockery of the whl, i really don't know what else he can learn playing against 16 year olds other than bad habits.

Like gardiner, his elite skating will cover some of his warts coming into the league.
*37.4%.

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07-22-2013, 12:28 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
*37.4%.
I assume you're right, I havnt checked in awhile, I just remember it being absurdly high before the world juniors and on par with a lot of the top forwards. I'm sure missing some time during the tourney caused a dip.

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07-22-2013, 02:00 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by LeafsBro View Post
I really don't think there should be any debate on this until after training camp. If the coaching staff believes hes ready to play then I say give him those 9 games so he can already get a feel for the NHL ( dont see how this would hurt his development). If they feel hes not ready to play in the NHL (defensive game etc.) then send him back to junior so he can work on the weaker parts of his game.
I agree the topic is irrelevant without any real information. Rielly will compete for a spot at training camp simple as that. Everyone brushes around the point that this topic is just wewantacup shamelessly promoting itself with an article that doesn't have any news value, doesn't, lacks quotes, and is just some guys opinion without any real evidence.

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07-22-2013, 02:37 AM
  #65
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I also hate when players are compared to Luke Schenn. He was drafted too high for his skill set and the type of player he is does take time to develop. Rielly IS the type of player that should have been drafted that high and could make the jump sooner than later. He's not Luke Schenn, not even close.

It's simple. If he's good enough to play in the NHL this year, he should. If he's not, he should go back to junior. No square pegs in round holes. People have said Rielly might have have gone higher in the draft if it wasn't for his injury.

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07-22-2013, 02:37 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
I assume you're right, I havnt checked in awhile, I just remember it being absurdly high before the world juniors and on par with a lot of the top forwards. I'm sure missing some time during the tourney caused a dip.
Highest by any defenseman by a very wide margin.

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07-22-2013, 02:51 AM
  #67
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If he is as good or better than players currently on the team and plays that way, he should be in the NHL. Sending him down for no particular reason aside from his age is just stupid.. plain stupid
Kostka is an all star, look how old and experienced he is !

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07-22-2013, 05:07 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by BIitz View Post
Why do you want him on a better WHL team? Playing less minutes and against lesser competition doesn't help your development at all. If you want him to take a reduced role like Reinhart had to, I guess you can hope he gets traded. I don't think playing 20 minutes at an inferior level is better than played 30+ though.
Name a team in the WHL on which Rielly wouldn't be an indisputable top-pairing guy played in all situations.

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07-22-2013, 05:16 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by pcruz View Post
Please, please, please. Don't rush this kid to the NHL and destroy him. The NHL is not a develping league. The coaching staff have no time to teach, they have barely enough time to get the team to gel together and teach their preferred plays and all. I understand the frustration it must lead to in the front office. Seeing a player like this, with this much potential and not even being allowed to let him play in the AHL yet.

Sometimes though, you need to swallow the bitter pill in order for it to help you in the long run. This seems like one of those times. You sit the guy down and explain to him that unfortunately, even though he has nothing to learn at the junior level, he can't go to the minors yet to develop properly. So his options are to sit in the press box until such time as he's available to go to the AHL, sacrificing a roster spot and game time for the player, or send him back to junior.

And then, the choice is made and you take the lesser of 2 evils and send him to the junior team.
Yeah, cuz no 18-19 year old has ever developed in the NHL.

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07-22-2013, 05:19 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by WeWantACup View Post
He is not a Crosby, as for Kane he is a big forward (not a small D) who started his career in Atlanta which is much different than starting here in TO. For example the picture in this article was taken at last years training camp, where people were already going crazy for the kid. In Atlanta Kane would never be noticed.
Rielly is 6' 205lbs, I'd hardly call that small.

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07-22-2013, 05:24 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by LeafsWantStanley View Post
Rielly, Get Bigger (Gym Rat so no biggie) and get Better Defensively, I just want him to work on those 2, regardless of whether he makes the leafs or not.
So being 6' 205lbs is small?

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07-22-2013, 05:26 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by pcruz View Post
Playing and coaching in the NHL is not like flipping burgers at a Harveys. There is no time for on the job training. There is way too much money on the line to be teaching raw players what to do in certain situations and how to react to plays that should be natural to the players at the NHL level. I'm not saying that Morgan doesn't have the ability to play in the NHL, but I do know that he will benefit from time in the AHL.

What is the very best organization at developing players in the last 2 decades? How do they treat players in terms of junior, minor league, major league development? Is it a coincidence?

Skill, technique, skating and instinct are things that don't go away. But positioning, reading the play, learning to deal with the size and strength of opponents and learning to deal with the increase in speed and subsequent decrease in reaction time are things that do not happen overnight.

That's the kind of things NHL coaches don't have time to teach. Tactics, puck control, team play, and communication are the kind of things coaches want to focus on, not teaching that one new guy that when the forward goes in behind the net this way, he should be covering the guy here because that's likely where the puck is going to go.
What do you think practices are for?

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07-22-2013, 05:28 AM
  #73
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I'm not saying that he's a small player in size, just the fact that his game is all offense. He's going to get exposed defensively.
You've said multiple times that he was small, now that you've been proven incorrect, you are changing your argument. His game isn't all offence. How do YOU know he will get exposed?

I say give him is nine games (if he deserves it), and make an intelligent and informed decision based upon that. If he is ready, it won't be rushing him, he'll be ready. If he isn't ready, send him back. It isn't a big deal really.

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07-22-2013, 05:30 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by showtime8 View Post
I'm not saying that he's a small player in size, just the fact that his game is all offense. He's going to get exposed defensively.
So cuz you read something on the internetz that makes it true? Because I highly doubt that you've seen more then 2 MJ games if at all.

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07-22-2013, 07:00 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by pcruz View Post
It's called the American Hockey League.
A rather flippant answer considering the AHL is not an option for this season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by showtime8 View Post
Do you really want him getting 3rd line minutes?

I'm on the fence with that issue. You want him to develop, but what are you going to show him playing 15 minutes a night and in a sheltered role. Then he goes into the line-up and tries to do too much.
I have absolutely no issue with him getting sheltered 3rd line minutes to begin with. I'll go one further, I have no issue if he only plays 50 - 60 games and spends the rest of the time watching and learning from the pressbox.

There is nothing wrong with introducing a young player to the NHL slowly. If it's explained to him properly and he is professional in his attitude toward it, there should be no problem.

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