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Most overrated players from last season?

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Old
07-22-2013, 08:47 AM
  #1
Machinae
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Most overrated players from last season?

Grabovski for me, but I still can't believe people think McClement is more than a 4th liner who heavily specializes in PKing.

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07-22-2013, 08:54 AM
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Grabovski for me, but I still can't believe people think McClement is more than a 4th liner who heavily specializes in PKing.
I don't think people are claiming he's more than a 4th liner, but he's definitely one of the best specialty players in the league.

A very, very valuable 4th liner.

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07-22-2013, 08:56 AM
  #3
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Komorov. Even a 3rd line agitator needs to be able to put the puck in the net once in a while

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07-22-2013, 08:57 AM
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Kulemin he's crap

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07-22-2013, 09:00 AM
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McClement held his own when given expanded duties on more offensive oriented lines. Not sure if you were paying attention.

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07-22-2013, 09:07 AM
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I'd say Franson.

He played bottom pairing minutes for the majority of the season, and once he started getting top 4 minutes his +/- started to plummet. Sure, he finished +4, but he was also like a +12 when he was on the bottom pairing.

He had some OK games defensively when used against scoring lines, but overall he was far from the well-rounded top 4 stud that a lot of people seem to be calling him. There were still skating issues, decision making issues, etc. He clearly played much better and more consistently than in the past in pretty much all facets of the game, but there have been people saying he could potentially be our #1 guy if Phaneuf gets traded (granted, that's a decently small minority).

I'd also have concern about him repeating that offence. It was also a shortened season with plenty of guys greatly exceeding expectations offensively (Kadri, Voracek, Franson, Ladd, Kunitz, Subban, etc), and I'd be very surprised to see most of even any of these guys play at the same PPG pace over a full 82 game season. Factor in Gardiner/Rielly taking away some of that PP time from him in the future as well.

I feel like there's a lot of bias in the arguments trying to say that he definitely IS a SOLID top 4 defenceman. They involve ignoring the first half of this season, ignoring the small sample size, and then blaming all his previous years on Wilson. At the end of the day, he's played in a top 4 role on a team that's slightly below average defensively for a couple of weeks, and only looked ok at doing so (by age 25).

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07-22-2013, 09:29 AM
  #7
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Easily Mark Fraser for me

On a good night he's a fair #6, on a bad night he's a pylon

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07-22-2013, 09:30 AM
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I'd say Franson.

He played bottom pairing minutes for the majority of the season, and once he started getting top 4 minutes his +/- started to plummet. Sure, he finished +4, but he was also like a +12 when he was on the bottom pairing.

He had some OK games defensively when used against scoring lines, but overall he was far from the well-rounded top 4 stud that a lot of people seem to be calling him. There were still skating issues, decision making issues, etc. He clearly played much better and more consistently than in the past in pretty much all facets of the game, but there have been people saying he could potentially be our #1 guy if Phaneuf gets traded (granted, that's a decently small minority).

I'd also have concern about him repeating that offence. It was also a shortened season with plenty of guys greatly exceeding expectations offensively (Kadri, Voracek, Franson, Ladd, Kunitz, Subban, etc), and I'd be very surprised to see most of even any of these guys play at the same PPG pace over a full 82 game season. Factor in Gardiner/Rielly taking away some of that PP time from him in the future as well.

I feel like there's a lot of bias in the arguments trying to say that he definitely IS a SOLID top 4 defenceman. They involve ignoring the first half of this season, ignoring the small sample size, and then blaming all his previous years on Wilson. At the end of the day, he's played in a top 4 role on a team that's slightly below average defensively for a couple of weeks, and only looked ok at doing so (by age 25).
Franson's plus/minus is a pretty bad indicator of how he played this year (plus/minus is always a bad indicator for anything, I wish they'd get rid of it). FWIW, once they got paired together he pretty much stayed with Fraser right through to the end of the season, and Fraser struggled late in the season.

I'll agree with you that calling him a #1 is phaneuf was moved is insane, but he's a good bottom guy, and seems capable of being 2nd pairing mainstay.


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07-22-2013, 09:33 AM
  #9
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komarov... lol...when the news broke many, like more than half, were crying. Its actually quite ridiculous he's a plug that hits and tries to agitate. My grandpa can do that too.

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07-22-2013, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by InNonisWeTrust View Post
Kulemin he's crap
Care to explain?

I'm gonna go with Cody Franson. Looked unreal on the PP but was suspect at ES. He did improve drastically as the season went on though and is starting to throw his body around and use his size much more. He just needs to do it consistently. Still definitely a keeper.

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07-22-2013, 09:44 AM
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Komorov for me as well. Loved the energy - but zero contribution on score sheet was a problem.

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07-22-2013, 09:44 AM
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I'd say Franson.

He played bottom pairing minutes for the majority of the season, and once he started getting top 4 minutes his +/- started to plummet. Sure, he finished +4, but he was also like a +12 when he was on the bottom pairing.

He had some OK games defensively when used against scoring lines, but overall he was far from the well-rounded top 4 stud that a lot of people seem to be calling him. There were still skating issues, decision making issues, etc. He clearly played much better and more consistently than in the past in pretty much all facets of the game, but there have been people saying he could potentially be our #1 guy if Phaneuf gets traded (granted, that's a decently small minority).

I'd also have concern about him repeating that offence. It was also a shortened season with plenty of guys greatly exceeding expectations offensively (Kadri, Voracek, Franson, Ladd, Kunitz, Subban, etc), and I'd be very surprised to see most of even any of these guys play at the same PPG pace over a full 82 game season. Factor in Gardiner/Rielly taking away some of that PP time from him in the future as well.

I feel like there's a lot of bias in the arguments trying to say that he definitely IS a SOLID top 4 defenceman. They involve ignoring the first half of this season, ignoring the small sample size, and then blaming all his previous years on Wilson. At the end of the day, he's played in a top 4 role on a team that's slightly below average defensively for a couple of weeks, and only looked ok at doing so (by age 25).
Franson was not overrated in my opinion....If fact he is still underrated judging by your post.

The coaching of Wilson most definitely had an affect on his numbers....as it is very hard to produce points from the press box....and being inserted into the lineup and despite playing well getting moved out of the lineup.

He is a top 4 dman in the NHL on most teams and not just the Leafs....he did lead the leafs in hits and made the power play better.

For me the most over rated player on the team is.....Gunner....he is talked about like he is some defensive genius......but if he is he should show it....his lack of physical play needs to be addressed....as well as his lack offense...in the playoffs he seemed to have lost his spot in the top pairing...lets see what this season brings for him.

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07-22-2013, 09:46 AM
  #13
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Grabovski. Easily, zero discussion.

He had more of a negative effect on the team then positive (low scoring, couldn't play his role). At 5.5M it can't happen.

People here seem to think he is God.

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07-22-2013, 09:48 AM
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Grabovski. Easily, zero discussion.

He had more of a negative effect on the team then positive (low scoring, couldn't play his role). At 5.5M it can't happen.

People here seem to think he is God.
I would have said him.....but he is gone ...so no longer a Leaf....but you are 100% correct.....i think you have to bring salary into the equation as a player can be great at a low salary....but horrible at a high salary....to be overrated I feel that your lower paid players who play up to or over their expectations can not be considered overrated.

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07-22-2013, 09:49 AM
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If people thought Komarov is overrated, its your problem you kept thinking highly of him.

He himself said that he would be rarely putting up offensive production.

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07-22-2013, 09:51 AM
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Grabovski. Easily, zero discussion.

He had more of a negative effect on the team then positive (low scoring, couldn't play his role). At 5.5M it can't happen.

People here seem to think he is God.
I am not the biggest Grabo fan... but would you blame Kessel if he were to be used on 3rd line checking role and his production went down this season?

For a player with 5.5 million caphit, a fast skating offensive center; Grabo was used on checking role. This is poor asset management.

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07-22-2013, 09:55 AM
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I am not the biggest Grabo fan... but would you blame Kessel if he were to be used on 3rd line checking role and his production went down this season?

For a player with 5.5 million caphit, a fast skating offensive center; Grabo was used on checking role. This is poor asset management.
It's only poor asset management if there was a better option. Kadri and Bozak outplayed Grabovski for the top 6 spots this year, so Grabovski was moved to 3rd by default, which isn't a true 3rd line anyway. It's more like a 2B. He had lots of icetime, and enough puck possesion to produce offense, yet he had the least number of points on his line.

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07-22-2013, 09:59 AM
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Easily Mark Fraser for me

On a good night he's a fair #6, on a bad night he's a pylon
I'll agree with that. He gets the job done as a bottom paring defenseman, but at the end of the day, he's just that.

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07-22-2013, 10:04 AM
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I wouldn't say Grabovski.

It's hard to call a guy overrated when over half the fan-base called him overpaid, criticized him for not producing, criticized him for having a low hockey IQ, etc.

I think he was overrated coming into this past season, but by the end of it, I wouldn't say he was.

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07-22-2013, 10:04 AM
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I'll agree with that. He gets the job done as a bottom paring defenseman, but at the end of the day, he's just that.
I say at $600000 he was a steal...he fought, blocked shots and was a good playing partner as he never tried to do anything he was not capable of....

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07-22-2013, 10:11 AM
  #21
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It's only poor asset management if there was a better option. Kadri and Bozak outplayed Grabovski for the top 6 spots this year, so Grabovski was moved to 3rd by default, which isn't a true 3rd line anyway. It's more like a 2B. He had lots of icetime, and enough puck possesion to produce offense, yet he had the least number of points on his line.
What outplayed? Grabovksi's linemates were: Kulemin, Komarov, McClement and McArthur (compare that to JvR and Kessel for Bozak). With those linemates, not many would generate offense. As far as ice time goes, Grabovski was given one of the most defensive draws in the league. That won't lead to a player putting up points. By all means, Grabovski was poorly handled by Carlyle after all that "energizer bunny" BS.

And any line with Komarov and McClement is not 2B; not in NHL; it is very well a 3rd line.

If there would be any worthy candidate of being overrated, it`d be Tyler "Freeloader" Bozak, who can't even hit 50 points; in spite of playing with elite talents on his wings that most centers would loathe for.

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07-22-2013, 10:17 AM
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I'd have a hard time saying these guys mentioned are that overrated. Never seen peoples opinion of a leaf player being so exaggerated beyond their actual skill set as I have with Phaneuf, since maybe Bryan McCabe.

Between the norris voting and the manufactured stats. It just gave the blogger crowd enough ammunition completely overrate this guy. Catapulting(in their minds) him in to the conversation among the top 5 defense in the league.

He's a #3 playing as a #1.

Don't bother telling me he does everything. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. That's a life lesson for you.

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07-22-2013, 10:19 AM
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If there would be any worthy candidate of being overrated, it`d be Tyler "Freeloader" Bozak, who can't even hit 50 points; in spite of playing with elite talents on his wings that most centers would loathe for.
not to nit pick. But I think you need to google the word loathe.

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07-22-2013, 10:21 AM
  #24
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I say at $600,000 he was a steal...he fought, blocked shots and was a good playing partner as he never tried to do anything he was not capable of....
Fraser was also a +18 which tied him for 14th spot overall in the NHL last year. A 3rd pairing defender that is on the ice for 18 more goals for than against at even strength is NOT hurting your team.

Besides minumum NHL salary is $550k and Fraser made min wage +$50k for $600k .. You can't get much better value then that.. Holzer makes $787K and would use more Cap if you promoted a Marlie to take his place and Korbinan was a -12 in only 22 games. The goal differential against between Frazer and Holzer is 30 more.

In a Cap World when you're going to pay your top players big $$$ you need cap friendly players to offset your cap cost and it doesn't get any better than Fraser.

He might be the most underrated Leaf as opposed to overrated, when it comes to his role, and cap hit accordingly.

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07-22-2013, 10:23 AM
  #25
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Not really from last season, but during his entire time here I think MacArthur was overrated as a supporting scorer. He had a small degree of finish around the net, but was pretty much entirely unable to generate anything himself (either to score or to set-up his teammates). I think his entire time as a Leaf was him benefiting from his linemates...first with the Kule-Grab-Mac line that had good Mojo, and then last year when he played with Kadri.

I'm not going to miss Mac.

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