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Old
08-05-2013, 08:30 AM
  #451
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Originally Posted by windycity View Post
Ryan Suter says hello.

And where are you getting we created animosity with Subban? He's a big boy, he knows it's business.
1, since the salary cap, you're right subban was most likely gone then

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08-05-2013, 09:27 AM
  #452
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I don't see Grabovski asking for more than 4 million so it's moot point to say that Desharnais is a cheaper option (when it's only 500k less).
if Grabovski was asking for 4 million he d probably be signed already,

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08-05-2013, 10:35 AM
  #453
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Originally Posted by habsrule22 View Post
if Grabovski was asking for 4 million he d probably be signed already,
We'll see about that I don't see him making close to the same money he was making on his previous deal, unless it's on a one year deal la Semin like last year.

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08-05-2013, 10:54 AM
  #454
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
1, since the salary cap, you're right subban was most likely gone then
Chara was post-salary cap too. So that part of your argument is shaky at best (nor did I ever say he was most likely gone).. As for your 2nd premise that MB somehow angered/alienated Subban with the holdout negotiations, feel free to support that with quotes and/or other tangible evidence.

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08-05-2013, 10:59 AM
  #455
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Originally Posted by DenverHabsFan View Post
Not sure if it's been posted before but here's a pretty amazing recap of the Bruins-Hawks series:





As a life long Bruins fan this is hilarious.

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08-05-2013, 10:56 PM
  #456
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Former Red Wing Shawn Burr dies at 47

http://www.freep.com/article/2013080...n-Burr-dies-47

RIP Shawn..

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Old
08-05-2013, 11:40 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by habsrule22 View Post
if Grabovski was asking for 4 million he d probably be signed already,
If Garbs is asking for more than $4M after being bought out than he's a bigger idiot than I thought and I thought. If any team pays him more than $4 M than they deserve each other. It's reminiscent of Semin signing in Carolina but with less talent. Grabs over $4M, no thank you.

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08-06-2013, 01:02 AM
  #458
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
If Garbs is asking for more than $4M after being bought out than he's a bigger idiot than I thought and I thought. If any team pays him more than $4 M than they deserve each other. It's reminiscent of Semin signing in Carolina but with less talent. Grabs over $4M, no thank you.
Wouldn't "reminiscent of Semin" mean getting signed to more than expected for a shorter term contract than expected?

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08-06-2013, 09:31 AM
  #459
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anyone know of a stream for canada vs sweden at the ivan hlinka?

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Old
08-06-2013, 10:17 AM
  #460
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
This type of logic is ridiculous.
Thanks for the respect dude.

You think there's no risk? I think you are wrong.

Let me ask you a question:

1. Pay Subban 3.5 mil a year for 2 years. 7 million. Then pay him 9 mill a year from age 26-33. 63 Million. Total: 70 Million for Subban during his entire prime. Guaranteed.

2. Pay Subban 6 mill a year from age 23-28. 30 Million. Then pay him 8 mill a year anyway from 29-36, 3 years past his prime. 56 Million. Because to keep him from idiot teams, that is what you will have to do. You will have to give him a deal well past his prime. Total: 86 Million. And having to have Subban injury prone from 33-36, past his prime.

Subban's agent was NEVER gonna let Habs contract Subby 2 or 3 years into his UFA last year. The upside for him was way too large. He's an exceptional talent.

Further: The cost of a player going to UFA is ****ing enormous. You have to compete with 29 other bidders. It is not a risk you take with a great player.

Not only did Bergy likely save the Habs 15 Mill long term, he pretty much locked up Subban for his entire prime. But no, it was a stupid move.

If you do not get this. I'm sorry. There is nothing else I can say. And don't call me ridiculous.

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08-06-2013, 10:28 AM
  #461
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Thanks for the respect dude.

You think there's no risk? I think you are wrong.

Let me ask you a question:

1. Pay Subban 3.5 mil a year for 2 years. 7 million. Then pay him 9 mill a year from age 26-33. 63 Million. Total: 70 Million for Subban during his entire prime. Guaranteed.

2. Pay Subban 6 mill a year from age 23-28. 30 Million. Then pay him 8 mill a year anyway from 29-36, 3 years past his prime. 56 Million. Because to keep him from idiot teams, that is what you will have to do. You will have to give him a deal well past his prime. Total: 86 Million. And having to have Subban injury prone from 33-36, past his prime.

Subban's agent was NEVER gonna let Habs contract Subby 2 or 3 years into his UFA last year. The upside for him was way too large. He's an exceptional talent.

Further: The cost of a player going to UFA is ****ing enormous. You have to compete with 29 other bidders. It is not a risk you take with a great player.

Not only did Bergy likely save the Habs 15 Mill long term, he pretty much locked up Subban for his entire prime. But no, it was a stupid move.

If you do not get this. I'm sorry. There is nothing else I can say. And don't call me ridiculous.
Yeah. I'm puzzled that some people don't see it that way. Makes perfect sense to me.

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08-06-2013, 10:29 AM
  #462
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Wouldn't "reminiscent of Semin" mean getting signed to more than expected for a shorter term contract than expected?
Yes it would. That's what I think will happen, unfortunately. Some team will give him more than they should like they always do. :

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08-06-2013, 10:48 AM
  #463
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Yeah. I'm puzzled that some people don't see it that way. Makes perfect sense to me.
me too

and the only counter-argument you hear is that no star Dman ever leaves via free agency and MB hurt Pk's feelings

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08-06-2013, 11:03 AM
  #464
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me too

and the only counter-argument you hear is that no star Dman ever leaves via free agency and MB hurt Pk's feelings
Some people have a need to worry about things before there's actually a problem. Don't know how anyone can live like that. Must be exhausting.

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Old
08-06-2013, 11:37 AM
  #465
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Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
Former Red Wing Shawn Burr dies at 47

http://www.freep.com/article/2013080...n-Burr-dies-47

RIP Shawn..
Sad to hear about Shawn's passing. I was in my first year of highschool when he broke into the league.

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Old
08-06-2013, 11:49 AM
  #466
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Wow Shawn Burr....remember him clearly. Pretty sad news...you battle cancer but then die from a fall? Just wow...

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08-06-2013, 12:11 PM
  #467
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Yeah that sucks.

Falling is no joke, we had a guy in our old neighborhood who died falling from his roof

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Old
08-06-2013, 12:23 PM
  #468
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Thanks for the respect dude.

You think there's no risk? I think you are wrong.

Let me ask you a question:

1. Pay Subban 3.5 mil a year for 2 years. 7 million. Then pay him 9 mill a year from age 26-33. 63 Million. Total: 70 Million for Subban during his entire prime. Guaranteed.

2. Pay Subban 6 mill a year from age 23-28. 30 Million. Then pay him 8 mill a year anyway from 29-36, 3 years past his prime. 56 Million. Because to keep him from idiot teams, that is what you will have to do. You will have to give him a deal well past his prime. Total: 86 Million. And having to have Subban injury prone from 33-36, past his prime.

Subban's agent was NEVER gonna let Habs contract Subby 2 or 3 years into his UFA last year. The upside for him was way too large. He's an exceptional talent.

Further: The cost of a player going to UFA is ****ing enormous. You have to compete with 29 other bidders. It is not a risk you take with a great player.

Not only did Bergy likely save the Habs 15 Mill long term, he pretty much locked up Subban for his entire prime. But no, it was a stupid move.

If you do not get this. I'm sorry. There is nothing else I can say. And don't call me ridiculous.
1- There's no guarantee PK agrees to a 7year deal at 9M.

2- There's no guarantee Mtl wants to give PK that much either.

3- You're numbers could be wrong. I can say PK would have agreed to 4.5M instead of your 6, and seeing how we negotiated fairly with him, he'd be more inclined to take a hometown discount in his following negotiation despite UFA years (it's been done before). So that extra 15ish Millions you're talking about could actually be much smaller to the point where it's pretty much even except you have PK for 3 extra years. Say whatever you want, but when you speculate money, it can go either way.

4- You're assuming PK will be past his prime after 33, which I can agree with. However, in no way does this mean he will no longer be very good and still effective. Lidstrom was past his prime but he was still one of the NHL's best Dman when he retired. The same can be said for others. The point I'm making here is trying to determine where a player will be in a decade is pretty useless.

5- The numbers down the line isn't what's important. That is besides the point.
Can you tell me where the NHL cap will be in 2020? How about our team? What will it look like? Will Bergevin and Therrien still even be here? So essentially, what's the point in discussing PK past the near future? Who from 2003 is still on our team? Markov and Bouillon. So really, is this the issue here? It's so damn far away.

6- Bergevin is signed for what, 4 years I believe, or 5? That means this is his window to turn us into true contenders/cup winners. Extensions are possible if he's doing well, but the point remains that looking at our current roster, with guys like Price, MaxPac, Gorges, Plekanec, Emelin either in or are entering their prime soon, we should be able to turn into contenders in the next few seasons. If we're not contending within 3years, I can tell you these guys will be fired. Having any player part of your core signed to a cheap deal during that cup window is key.

7- You will always have to overpay for certain players. We will have guys on our roster that earn more than they should. That's why you need others who are underpaid or fairly paid. Having PK to a more reasonable cheap deal would have given us more flexibility within this cup window.

8- What PK makes in years 6-7-8.. is pretty irrelevant at this point and using it as an argument is kinda weak. Maybe PK will have suffered major injuries by then, maybe the team will be absolute garbage, maybe he'll have simply signed an arbitration deal following next season and actually hit UFA sooner, maybe he'll have been traded, or maybe he'll be the best Dman in the NHL still with us. Really, who knows...It's way too far to even part of the discussion.

9- Look around the NHL for players that sign bridge deals, none of them can compare to PK's skills or development at the time of their signing. Bridge deals are given to players that are still unproven and/or questionable. Players like PK, that have demonstrated enough to be a very big part of the team, usually don't sign bridge deals. OEL is the perfect example.

10- This is an opinion, but based on what Bergevin said about PK before the season, and with the way Therrien used him until Diaz got injured, I have a hard time believing the bridge deal was some sort of plan in order to get PK signed through all his prime years. If it was the plan, which means you view PK as this special player that you already want to keep through his prime years, I seriously doubt you go as far as to play a game of chicken with him to the point where he needs to sit out the beginning of the year and discuss his future with his family. You don't alienate someone like this if you think he's that special. It doesn't add up.

What makes a heck of a lot more sense is that they simply weren't sold on PK. Looking at the way the negotiations went, looking at how much PK was actually signed for, looking at the way Therrien used him until Diaz went down, and looking at the players throughout the league that sign low cap hit bridge deals, certainly shows that management just didn't trust PK nor did they place him as high as others had him.
Everything points towards them not being sold on PK, nothing points towards them orchestrating this plan of having him locked up throughout his prime years.

11- The bridge deal is a matter of opinion, although there's no question about what type of players usually get them. Still, nothing excuses a dispute with your star to the point of him missing the beginning of the year. PK was already worth well over what management offered him.


So again, the point isn't about whether or not Molson will save 15 millions down the line in about a decade. The point is we have a cup window that is near 4years now, so starting possibly next summer (or the one after), Bergevin will have to be more aggressive on the open market which means over paying for guys. That's when you need to have some guys, like PK, signed for cheaper to create balance.


Last edited by Kriss E: 08-06-2013 at 12:32 PM.
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Old
08-06-2013, 01:36 PM
  #469
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
1- There's no guarantee PK agrees to a 7year deal at 9M.
And there's a chance that the Bell center falls in a 200 foot hole during a game and we loose all our players.

As for the rest of your post, it's really just a bunch of worst-case scenarios that make no sense at all. Do you live your whole life thinking everything will go wrong?

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08-06-2013, 01:50 PM
  #470
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And there's a chance that the Bell center falls in a 200 foot hole during a game and we loose all our players.

As for the rest of your post, it's really just a bunch of worst-case scenarios that make no sense at all. Do you live your whole life thinking everything will go wrong?
Right because there's about as much a chance for a large sinkhole to happen during a game as there is PK not signing a 7y deal worth 9M. Sure. Makes total sense.

And how am I wrong in saying that everything points to Bergevin simply not knowing enough of PK? How am I wrong about the other players that sign bridge deals being unproven? How am I wrong in Therrien using him on the bottom pairing until Diaz got injured? How am I wrong on saying PK could still be effective into his 30s? How am I wrong in saying what happens in a decade is way too far to really be of worry??

How are any of these ''worst-case scenarios''? I don't think you even read my post passed the first point, certainly doesn't appear like you have.

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08-06-2013, 04:45 PM
  #471
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some B's fan hate Subban


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Old
08-06-2013, 05:03 PM
  #472
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Meh.

That tattoo isn't too bad, except for Rask's mask. Looks like it was hastily done. The puck and cup look the best. The bear looks more like a cat.

If you took out the puck and the Bourque/Orr jersey it would look more like Rask flipped his **** and threw his mask off, transformed into a bear and went after a Vancouver player before Subban stepped in to defend the Vancouver player.

That cup is still tremendously done.

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08-06-2013, 05:16 PM
  #473
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That tatoo aint bad but if you really look at the fine details in Photoshop you will see that this is a fan's deluded and frustrated perception and/or desires of a representation of Milan Lucic trying to look mean and tough in front of David Desharnais. The proportions and sizes are just about perfect; you can see what i mean here:







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08-06-2013, 05:21 PM
  #474
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some B's fan hate Subban

Subban would take on a bear to get a cup. What a hero.

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Old
08-06-2013, 05:24 PM
  #475
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some B's fan hate Subban

heh. Skinny arms / 10

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