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The Out of Town Thread part LXVI - All Talk From Around the League Here

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Old
09-03-2013, 02:35 PM
  #926
BLONG7
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 2m
Franson was eligible for salary arb but didn't file. Believed to want long term (4 yrs at $4M+ per). TOR aiming short, yr or 2 at <$3M per.
Expand

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 7m
Kadri believed to be looking long-term (6 yrs in Tavares stratosphere of $5.5M per). Leafs want short, 2 yrs at P.K. Subban $ ($2.875M per).
Outside of Kessel, Kadri was the best Leaf last year...this could get ugly...

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09-03-2013, 02:36 PM
  #927
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No matter what people say about Bergevin on the bridge deal: Many GMs are trying to do just the same thing. Established GMs such as Sather and Nonis at that. That might tell you something about what the perception is around the league on that deal... Unless you guys say these guys are stupid too?

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09-03-2013, 02:44 PM
  #928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
No matter what people say about Bergevin on the bridge deal: Many GMs are trying to do just the same thing. Established GMs such as Sather and Nonis at that. That might tell you something about what the perception is around the league on that deal... Unless you guys say these guys are stupid too?
Seems like the GMs are making a concerted effort to reinstitute the bridge deal, which was blown up when Kevin Lowe went on his RFA rampage a few years ago. Subban's was the first big name that a GM took a hardline stance on in this effort, but I doubt it'll be the last.

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09-03-2013, 02:58 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 2m
Franson was eligible for salary arb but didn't file. Believed to want long term (4 yrs at $4M+ per). TOR aiming short, yr or 2 at <$3M per.
Expand

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 7m
Kadri believed to be looking long-term (6 yrs in Tavares stratosphere of $5.5M per). Leafs want short, 2 yrs at P.K. Subban $ ($2.875M per).
A lot of ignorant Leaf fans crowing about their certainty that PK Subban has signed his last deal with the Habs. This may be the tonic they need for that illness.

Another tick mark for Bergevin who cements his lineup early and before hunting in the free agent market.

Let's see how Nonis stick handles this one. Two rogue free agents seems like a tall order to fill.

Capitulation will undoubtedly start direct comparisons to Bergevin.

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09-03-2013, 03:07 PM
  #930
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This could get ugly fast

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09-03-2013, 03:08 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Seems like the GMs are making a concerted effort to reinstitute the bridge deal, which was blown up when Kevin Lowe went on his RFA rampage a few years ago. Subban's was the first big name that a GM took a hardline stance on in this effort, but I doubt it'll be the last.
Not really sure about that. NYR have 2m and change in cap space for Stepan. Toronto has under 5m for Kadri & Franson. They have no choice but to offer them Subban-like deals because they don't have space to sign them long term at the 4-5m range.

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09-03-2013, 03:16 PM
  #932
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Not really sure about that. NYR have 2m and change in cap space for Stepan. Toronto has under 5m for Kadri & Franson. They have no choice but to offer them Subban-like deals because they don't have space to sign them long term at the 4-5m range.
Even at that, it depends the player. Stepan for example isn't as a key component as McDonagh who didn't get a bridge deal with his extension. Exceptional players will always be that, exceptions. Talented and core players will always be an exception to the bridge contract rule.

Also teams who can't afford to lose talent or build bad blood will always cave to negotiations at some point.

The bridge deal wants to treat unequal players in an equal manner. It won't always work out. In fact, we've already seen some deals this year where the bridge concept wasn't applied like Henrique.

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09-03-2013, 03:33 PM
  #933
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You could... but come on now. You're talking about a career AHLer who has bounced down through the German and ECHL (not for lockout reasons, mind you) levels vs a guy with over 300 NHL games. You wouldn't want to waste too much effort defending that one, trust me.
Pretty sure that I wrote "In camps they were paired in", which for me means rookie and development, Cöté looked as good. Not sure why I have to defend my analysis on both guys' camps I saw with my own eyes.....Besides, while it's tough to be proven, it's a whole lot about having the opportunity. Of course, if you are great, you will find a way to win your spot in a professionnal league, even if your first organization hates you and just don't want you to succeed. But for marginal players, it's tougher. At one point, you could have thought that Stéphane Robidas was a guy that only had a NHL shot because he was a franco and local team wanted to "help" him....Happened he wasn't. I mean, I do remember that at one point, we were choosing between him or Bouillon. And there are other cases like that. Could Côté have shown some greater things somewhere else? We will never know. Do seem he's nothing more than a AHL'er. And it's tough to pretend otherwise. Which, again, is not what I was implying, was solely talking about the camps I've seen both guys in....Totally not true that O'Byrne looked way more a NHL'er than Côté or Korpikari. Just like Niklas Torp looked just as good in some confrontations in those camps than Yanick Weber. And Weber is in the NHL while the other one isn't....And then comes to "development" debate...you can look as good as anybody in a camp and then stop progressing while the other just started....There is also that possibility.


Last edited by Whitesnake: 09-03-2013 at 04:00 PM.
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09-03-2013, 03:39 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by Smoky Thompson View Post
This could get ugly fast
we can only hope.
kadri, franson, kessel and phaneuf. let them troll habfans about subban

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09-03-2013, 03:44 PM
  #935
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Kadri should take the bridge and Franson should take a 1 year deal.

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09-03-2013, 04:21 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Even at that, it depends the player. Stepan for example isn't as a key component as McDonagh who didn't get a bridge deal with his extension. Exceptional players will always be that, exceptions. Talented and core players will always be an exception to the bridge contract rule.

Also teams who can't afford to lose talent or build bad blood will always cave to negotiations at some point.

The bridge deal wants to treat unequal players in an equal manner. It won't always work out. In fact, we've already seen some deals this year where the bridge concept wasn't applied like Henrique.
Yes. This contract was given by the same GM who sacrificed Parise for one year of Kovalchuk, who decided not to give up his 29th pick instead of a potential lottery pick, and who used the same pick on a player he ended up rushing and potentially breaking mentally in a short time. All that while giving Zajac ludicrous money. He's doing the same with Henrique now.

The "building of bad blood" is purely speculative right now. And no matter how everyone here myself included hate Kadri, he absolutely is a core player for the Leafs.

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09-03-2013, 04:51 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Pretty sure that I wrote "In camps they were paired in", which for me means rookie and development, Cöté looked as good. Not sure why I have to defend my analysis on both guys' camps I saw with my own eyes.....
Because after seeing them, they were obviously sent in different directions. Just saying, you'd be pretty far out in left field according to most with that statement, and for good reason imo.

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09-03-2013, 04:57 PM
  #938
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FIGS will trade their captain, to gain salary.

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09-03-2013, 04:58 PM
  #939
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The Leafs have a delicate situation. Kadri finally has a good season, u don't want him to miss training camp etc. If I were the Leafs, I trade franson and resign kadri quickly. The future of their team is more dependant on this young center then Kessel

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09-03-2013, 05:06 PM
  #940
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I think the Leafs should hardline Kadri and Franson and make them sit the entire year. That way they'll be worse and no UFA's will want to sign there.

On a more serious note, how silly was it to sign Clarkson to that horrible deal, especially now that it's caused such a pickle with their RFA's who they must sign?

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09-03-2013, 05:14 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
I think the Leafs should hardline Kadri and Franson and make them sit the entire year. That way they'll be worse and no UFA's will want to sign there.

On a more serious note, how silly was it to sign Clarkson to that horrible deal, especially now that it's caused such a pickle with their RFA's who they must sign?
Nonis has not played this well at all...

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09-03-2013, 05:35 PM
  #942
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Just heard Dave Poulin on Sportsnet and he said there's plenty of money left on the Leafs cap to sign both Kadri and Franson.. He said the Leafs offer to Kadri is "fair" based on his body of work thus far and was not made because of the cap.. With under $5M left on their cap the Leafs seem to be undervaluing both guys to me so I hope this drags on for a while just because it's the Leafs..

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on-...leafs-continue

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09-03-2013, 05:44 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
No matter what people say about Bergevin on the bridge deal: Many GMs are trying to do just the same thing. Established GMs such as Sather and Nonis at that. That might tell you something about what the perception is around the league on that deal... Unless you guys say these guys are stupid too?
Except that Kadri only had one good year. PK had accomplished more than what Kadri did.

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09-03-2013, 05:46 PM
  #944
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Bergevin had a lot more going for him when he played hard ball with subban...

Nonis is in a tougher situation, at least as far as public/media pressure is concerned (which may not matter given the big extension he just signed).

- laffs just made the playoffs for first time in a long time
- took the easter conference champs to 7 games
- Kadri broke out just last season

Laffs will already be in tough to start the season where they left off, if Kadri isn't in the lineup & they struggle at all in the opening month, the pressure to get him signed will be huge.

MB had a lot going for him in the Subban stalemate... expectations for the team were non-existent, Subban was coming off of a good year but not a "break out" year, getting a healthy markov to start the season meant production from the back end didn't miss a beat, and he was a brand new hire on a brand new contract.
Fans & media gave him a surprising amount of support, and the teams early success sealed the deal for him.

Nonis will have to be lucky for things to go that smoothly for him. If he forces the bridge deal, and the laffs struggle at all without Kadri, i'd put my money on the kid eventually getting what he wants (be it from the laffs, or in a trade... because even with a hold out, Kadri's value will probably remain high enough that they could find a suitable trading partner).

interesting to see how this plays out.

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09-03-2013, 05:58 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by Dagistitsyn View Post
Stepan also looking to get long term and NYR holding firm on Subban based bridge deal. Same with the Leafs for Kadri.

Subban's bridge contract is screwing everyone
It explains why everyone hates Subban

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09-03-2013, 06:23 PM
  #946
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It explains why everyone hates Subban
That's 10 classless Subbans
When will he learn to mature up?

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09-03-2013, 06:41 PM
  #947
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Because after seeing them, they were obviously sent in different directions. Just saying, you'd be pretty far out in left field according to most with that statement, and for good reason imo.
I just love people who keeps singling out 1 phrase out of 10 and don't take everything in context. I also added "but then there's development that plays a role so it might be it as well". But disregard I said something like that as well.

You can also disregard that injuries plays a role in that as well, one of the reasons why we made that great Niinimaa for Ribeiro trade was mostly because Côté got injured severely during one of those camps and never got a chance to prove himself after. But his camp was going great until he got that injury. Côté was a 9th round, O'Byrne was a 3rd round. As much as I hate to see this, CLEARLY organisation will always give more room to high-end picks than lower end ones. Also, O'Byrne is 6'5'' and a better skater. So CLEARLY he will have more chance to prove himself as the potential would have been looked as greater. Hence the number of games in the NHL versus the other one. Does O'Byrne happen to have had a better NHL career? Of course he did.....but somehow, in those camps, one was not better than other. But that's just my opinion. So yes, one went to a different direction 'cause they believed that one had a greater potential...not necessarily that one had a better camp than the other....

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Old
09-03-2013, 07:19 PM
  #948
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Except that Kadri only had one good year. PK had accomplished more than what Kadri did.
I agree with this, but there are a lot of rules that don't make sense in sports, one of them is that draft position plays a large role in determining compensation early in a career. Kadri is a first rounder, PK a second. This fact gives Kadri an argument that PK just didn't have and it's a very real variable.

From what I've grown to believe from various media nuggets, Kadri is very high on his own abilities and potential. I don't think he'll move from his position soon.

As a Habs fan I hope this means he's unavailable for opening night. But I refuse to think he'll fall out of the favour with the Leafs long term.

PK will have a long career with the Habs, Kadri will have similar with the Leafs. But this year it's the Leafs that will sweat through training camp and hopefully a little beyond that.

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Old
09-03-2013, 09:13 PM
  #949
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Apparently Dreger said powerful people believe Bernier will play himself onto team Canada.

This guy is a complete wiener.

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09-03-2013, 09:31 PM
  #950
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Apparently Dreger said powerful people believe Bernier will play himself onto team Canada.

This guy is a complete wiener.
Like Bowmeester will?

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