HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New Jersey Devils
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Team better off without Kovalchuk?

View Poll Results: Better without Kovalchuk?
Yes, better without Kovalchuk 86 52.44%
No, worse without Kovalchuk 78 47.56%
Voters: 164. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-28-2013, 08:54 PM
  #226
apice3*
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Middletown, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 18,520
vCash: 500
Also, at no point has 17 ever been a better overall player than Parise. Not when 17 was a Thrasher and Parise was a Devil. Not when both were Devils. Not when 17 was a Devil and Parise was a Wild. Not when 17 was in Russia and Parise in Minnesota.

17 had and has better offensive talent than Parise. That doesn't make him a better overall player.

apice3* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 09:00 PM
  #227
JimEIV
Registered User
 
JimEIV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 27,441
vCash: 500
So we are in fact a better team today...but it's not because Kovalchuk left?

You guys are funny ...and you set that up quite well to save face....

We are either better without him or we aren't ....and apparently future results don't matter...this is precious!

JimEIV is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 09:45 PM
  #228
apice3*
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Middletown, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 18,520
vCash: 500
Think of it like this.

You have a bag of 6 m

apice3* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 09:58 PM
  #229
NJDevs26
Moderator
Status quo
 
NJDevs26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 25,909
vCash: 50
Schnieder >> Hedberg
Ryder >> Bobby Butler/Matteau
Jagr < Kovalchuk
Clowe = or slight < Clarkson

NJDevs26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 10:01 PM
  #230
JimEIV
Registered User
 
JimEIV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 27,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
Think of it like this.

You have a bag of 6 m
I think of like this way: we freed up 26 minutes a game of lackluster production, weak for checking, refusal to contest a lose puck, lack of any physical presence and shaky defense

JimEIV is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 10:09 PM
  #231
Zajacs Bowl Cut
Nova Nation
 
Zajacs Bowl Cut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Southampton, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 40,288
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Zajacs Bowl Cut Send a message via Yahoo to Zajacs Bowl Cut
Clowe is a better all around player than Clarkson

Zajacs Bowl Cut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 10:13 PM
  #232
JimEIV
Registered User
 
JimEIV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 27,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
Clowe is a better all around player than Clarkson
If his head is not mush it is still close...Clowe was the worst move of the off season with Kovalchuk's departure being the best.

JimEIV is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 10:21 PM
  #233
StvBroDan
OH I'll Be Back
 
StvBroDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,426
vCash: 500
Ok ignore the worthless thread best Idea. Idiotic to keep this crap going.

StvBroDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 10:22 PM
  #234
SteveCangialosi123
Registered User
 
SteveCangialosi123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 3,439
vCash: 500
Parise's defense doesn't make him a better overall player than Kovy. Is parise a better overall player than Ovechkin? No. Parise's d does not make up for his significantly worse o.

SteveCangialosi123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 10:26 PM
  #235
hockeyr5
Registered User
 
hockeyr5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 2,462
vCash: 500
I have to say I do kinda agree with Jim. There were countless times watching games where I just felt frustrated with Kovalchuk because he would never go into that extra gear and just tried to do a safe, simple play but it would be too safe or simple. I don't know if it was due to his large quantity of minutes but he did always seem to playing with a bit of reserve.

I'm not trying to question his heart or anything like that, I could never quite put my finger on what it was but there was always something.

hockeyr5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 10:30 PM
  #236
Benedict Parisechuk
Army of Pandolfo's
 
Benedict Parisechuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 7,458
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
If his head is not mush it is still close...Clowe was the worst move of the off season with Kovalchuk's departure being the best.
Who were we supposed to sign instead of Clowe?

Benedict Parisechuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 10:34 PM
  #237
JimEIV
Registered User
 
JimEIV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 27,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCangialosi123 View Post
Parise's defense doesn't make him a better overall player than Kovy. Is parise a better overall player than Ovechkin? No. Parise's d does not make up for his significantly worse o.
This place gets more and more bizarre everyday....Parise is not as good as Ovechkin therefore Kovalchuk is better than Parise?

Whackadooo.

JimEIV is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 10:35 PM
  #238
JimEIV
Registered User
 
JimEIV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 27,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benedict Parisechuk View Post
Who were we supposed to sign instead of Clowe?
Misnomer.

JimEIV is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 10:47 PM
  #239
Richer's Ghost
Global Moderator
Addicted
 
Richer's Ghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: photoshop labor camp
Country: United States
Posts: 49,341
vCash: 209
I guess a lot of folks don't want Jim to have his victory lap...

__________________

"Extinction is the rule, survival is the exception." - Carl Sagan
Richer's Ghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 10:54 PM
  #240
Hockey Sports Fan
:panic:
 
Hockey Sports Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 6,607
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Hockey Sports Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
You know what the best part of all this is going to be? When we have a significantly better win% next season and I bump this thread to say I told you so.....

But you'll find some other narrative or set of numbers to claim coincidence or irrelevancy...but the fact will remain, this will be a better team without Kovalchuk.
Your commitment to being laughably obtuse is nothing short of admirable at this point. Yes, you'll be right when the Devils are a better team like everyone (including me) was predicting by the end of last season, even before the Schneider acquisition. The Devils will be a better team and it won't have anything to do with rookies stepping up, a top-10 goalie, improved depth, and the first stretch of stable coaching we've seen in a long time. Kovalchuk will be gone and that's all you need to know.

You are the poster child for "correlation versus causation" and for someone who decries numbers and narratives, you've been relying heavily on both in the face of evidence throughout this thread. I apologize for wasting your time, hopefully someone else learned something throughout the discussion.

Hockey Sports Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 11:16 PM
  #241
JimEIV
Registered User
 
JimEIV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 27,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggers View Post
Your commitment to being laughably obtuse is nothing short of admirable at this point. Yes, you'll be right when the Devils are a better team like everyone (including me) was predicting by the end of last season, even before the Schneider acquisition. The Devils will be a better team and it won't have anything to do with rookies stepping up, a top-10 goalie, improved depth, and the first stretch of stable coaching we've seen in a long time. Kovalchuk will be gone and that's all you need to know.

You are the poster child for "correlation versus causation" and for someone who decries numbers and narratives, you've been relying heavily on both in the face of evidence throughout this thread. I apologize for wasting your time, hopefully someone else learned something throughout the discussion.
A lot of words to say the Devils aren't better without Kovalchuk but they'll be better without Kovalchuk.... lol.

JimEIV is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 11:24 PM
  #242
Devils Trap
Cory's Better
 
Devils Trap's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Jersey
Country:
Posts: 24,831
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Devils Trap
I think what he is saying that our roster is better then it was the end of last season, which it is. But it isnt because Kovalchuk left. Its because Lou went out and got good solid FA

Devils Trap is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 11:30 PM
  #243
Bleedred
LATEST VICTIM!
 
Bleedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Seminole Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 35,980
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils Trap View Post
I think what he is saying that our roster is better then it was the end of last season, which it is. But it isnt because Kovalchuk left. Its because Lou went out and got good solid FA
That's what I think too. Kovalchuk leaving doesn't make our team better, but the team is without a doubt better than it was coming into, and even ending last season.

CBGB as the 3rd line? Yeah that was a ****in joke.

Not trying to side with Jim here, but here's something to think about. It has nothing to do with what Jim's saying but I thought it was interesting.

Our goals scored while Marty was out and Kovalchuk was in the lineup, wasn't too much worse than our goals scored when Kovalchuk was injured. We only won three games and TWO of them were in shootouts and we needed Moose to stop all 3 shooters BOTH times. If not for our 5-2 beatdown of the Flyers, our goals scored per game wasn't too much lower during that stretch than it was with Kovalchuk out of the lineup.

Bleedred is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 11:31 PM
  #244
Devils Trap
Cory's Better
 
Devils Trap's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Jersey
Country:
Posts: 24,831
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Devils Trap
I will give Jim props. He was right about Kovy not being a team guy all along. I hope he is right that we will drastically improve next year, which I think we will to

Devils Trap is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 11:31 PM
  #245
JimEIV
Registered User
 
JimEIV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 27,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils Trap View Post
I think what he is saying that our roster is better then it was the end of last season, which it is. But it isnt because Kovalchuk left. Its because Lou went out and got good solid FA
Which was only possible with Kovalchuk gone...we'd already be close to over the cap without Henrique signed if Kovalchuk was still here...
.in real dollars all the players signed combined wouldn't equal what Kovalchuk would cost this season...

JimEIV is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 11:35 PM
  #246
Balance
Registered User
 
Balance's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 542
vCash: 500
Kovalchuk never played a full season and playoffs healthy with the team and still made it to the cup final leading the team in points.

Parise never made it past the 2nd round year after year until Kovalchuk had to come in and carry the offense.

Balance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 11:37 PM
  #247
Bleedred
LATEST VICTIM!
 
Bleedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Seminole Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 35,980
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils Trap View Post
I will give Jim props. He was right about Kovy not being a team guy all along. I hope he is right that we will drastically improve next year, which I think we will to
Think of it this way. We went 3-9-2 with the merc in the lineup while Marty was injured. Two of them were shootouts and the merc didn't even score a goal in either one of those shootouts. If not for the two shootout wins, that stretch is just as pathetic or even more pathetic than that 1-6-4 stretch without him while he was injured.

Marty came back and we won two in a row, and then it was back to being downhill. We also beat a team that was falling down the standings at an even more rapid pace than us (Carolina) and then beat the worst team in the league last year by a mere score of 2-1. If POS Scott Clemmensen doesn't give Clarkson a complete gift in that game, then we might even lose that one too.

Our record without Kovalchuk wasn't much worse than our record for the 13 games prior.

Bleedred is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 11:37 PM
  #248
Balance
Registered User
 
Balance's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 542
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCangialosi123 View Post
Parise's defense doesn't make him a better overall player than Kovy. Is parise a better overall player than Ovechkin? No. Parise's d does not make up for his significantly worse o.
Agreed. Parise is one of the most overrated players in the league. Kovalchuk is a better penalty killer than Parise and is almost as good defensively and then there is a huge disparity between their offensive skills.

There's a reason that Deboer was giving Kovy the most minutes per night and why he didn't give Parise as much.

Balance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 11:41 PM
  #249
JimEIV
Registered User
 
JimEIV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 27,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balance View Post
Kovalchuk never played a full season and playoffs healthy with the team and still made it to the cup final leading the team in points.

Parise never made it past the 2nd round year after year until Kovalchuk had to come in and carry the offense.
What does Parise have to do with the devils being better without Kovalchuk in your example?

JimEIV is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 11:42 PM
  #250
Bleedred
LATEST VICTIM!
 
Bleedred's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Seminole Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 35,980
vCash: 500
Deboer also thought it was perfectly reasonable to have two centers performing at an under 40% win rate too last season. I wouldn't say just because he did something, that makes it right.

Bleedred is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:43 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.