HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

Vaneks latest comments

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-26-2013, 10:38 AM
  #126
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,213
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubi Doo View Post
[1]
[3] Apparently you've been absent the past year? We're already on our way there. This isn't year 1! I believe the foundation is built already.
Then this is all we really need to disagree on. If I felt that the current pipeline had championship written on it, I'd be absolutely against tanking.

I think we're far from there. I think we might have a core in there somewhere, but not an elite one.

haseoke39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2013, 10:44 AM
  #127
Eichel15
A DJ saved my life
 
Eichel15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Downtown Buffalo
Country: Germany
Posts: 3,512
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Eichel15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubi Doo View Post
I despise this line of thinking. How do you plan on doing this? Trade away all our veterans for futures and watch our young guys like Hodgson, Grigorenko, Ennis, Myers, Foligno, Pysyk etc...swim or sink? Potentially hindering their development?

Nothing's guaranteed in this league. You can try and build the worst team possible, but at the end of the day you still have 20 professional athletes and a coaching staff competing for wins.

Look at last years team! They were terrible! A bottom 3 team, but they took a lot of games to OT and won a bunch of shootouts. By the end of the year they were outworking other teams for wins.

Give the rookies and young guns the best environment to develop in, and that's competition and a veteran presence. If that translates to more wins...oh well! At least we're watching entertaining hockey!=)

Vanek for Pavelski sounds good to me.
You mean bottom 8, right?

Eichel15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2013, 10:50 AM
  #128
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 44,593
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Then this is all we really need to disagree on. If I felt that the current pipeline had championship written on it, I'd be absolutely against tanking.

I think we're far from there. I think we might have a core in there somewhere, but not an elite one.
Do you write off all our 18-20 yr old prospect talent just to support your position?

Jame is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2013, 11:02 AM
  #129
Dubi Doo
Registered User
 
Dubi Doo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 8,062
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by enrothorne View Post
You mean bottom 8, right?
They were a bottom three team, BUT THEY TOOK A LOT OF GAMES TO OT AND HAD A BUNCH OF SHOOTOUT WINS. They finished 8th, but they were a much worse team. My point was, a lot of teams suck, but don't suck enough to get a top pick. So why waste years chasing a top pick?!

Dubi Doo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2013, 11:51 AM
  #130
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 45,864
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Do you write off all our 18-20 yr old prospect talent just to support your position?
I would say he has. How else can you interpret the idea that the young talent on the team along with those on the way won't be able to lift us above a top 3 pick the next two years.

joshjull is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2013, 12:10 PM
  #131
Jim Bob
I like Big Botts
 
Jim Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 23,777
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
I have my doubt whether or not "spectorshockey.net" has any idea what they're talking about.
Lyle is more of search engine for trade rumors. But, he does do work for The Hockey News, too.

I find his stuff to be pretty level headed as he doesn't try and chase stuff to break news and points out the rumors du jour and gives his two cents on them.

Jim Bob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2013, 12:12 PM
  #132
Jim Bob
I like Big Botts
 
Jim Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 23,777
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Come on, thats like word for word what Regier said. Then at the end he throws in "depending on how the club performs". LOL. Im telling you, this is going to get ugly if the Sabres are anywhere near a playoff spot or Vanek is having a great season.

But please spare me with Regier excuses, lets not even go there.
I'm not making excuses.

I'm being realistic.

No UFAs-to-be have been moved this offseason, let alone any making Vanek money. And you think it should be easy for Regier to get a monster return for Vanek right now.

I disagree. And I don't see any evidence at all to support your position.

Jim Bob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2013, 12:34 PM
  #133
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 44,593
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I would say he has. How else can you interpret the idea that the young talent on the team along with those on the way won't be able to lift us above a top 3 pick the next two years.
I want a top 3 pick as much as anyone... but that desire doesn't force me to make ridiculous claims.

Side Note : Considering our plethora of young talent (prospect 17-20, young pros 21-23)... has any team recently had a similar collection of 1st round draft talent? Im talking simply in quantity... has anyone recently had 9 first rounders under 24 years old in their system?

Myers 23
Ennis 23
Hodgson 23
Pysyk 21
Armia 20
Grigorenko 19
Girgensons 19
Ristolainen 18
Zadarov 18

9 1sts through 6 drafts

and that's not even acknowledging quality players in the system (Foligno, McNabb, Larsson, McCabe, Compher, Bailey, Kea, Hackett, etc)

There are a few key positions that NEED to reach their development to have a contending core in place (2 key Centers, Shutdown D), if some of the multiple players that could potentially fill those roles, reach their potential, then a core is born

..rambling...

Jame is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2013, 12:57 PM
  #134
Sabre Dance
Goals not pull-ups
 
Sabre Dance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 8,866
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegomyLeggio View Post
I'm not making excuses.

I'm being realistic.

No UFAs-to-be have been moved this offseason, let alone any making Vanek money. And you think it should be easy for Regier to get a monster return for Vanek right now.

I disagree. And I don't see any evidence at all to support your position.
I dont think we can group Vanek with anyone else simply because he seems to be the only big name guy being shopped publicly.

If the GM for the Sharks publicly talked about trading Joe Thornton, what do you think happens before the season, Thornton would be traded. Heck, even Pavelski. If these players publicly talked about the team not being the right fit, and wanting to be with a team closer to winning, they would be traded.

I agree not many of these players are close to being signed long-term, but there isnt much trade talk about them out there. Vanek seems to be the biggest name available.

But like I said, maybe Regier is holding out hope he can re-sign Vanek before the trade dead line. I would not be shocked if he has no idea what he will do with Vanek right now.

Everyone talks about the Ducks, but Perry and Getzlaf wanted to be there.

Sabre Dance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2013, 01:07 PM
  #135
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,213
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I would say he has. How else can you interpret the idea that the young talent on the team along with those on the way won't be able to lift us above a top 3 pick the next two years.
Even talented 18 year olds are still 18. Pittsburgh and Chicago both had future difference makers in their pipelines while they were picking first.

haseoke39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2013, 03:18 PM
  #136
Jim Bob
I like Big Botts
 
Jim Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 23,777
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
I dont think we can group Vanek with anyone else simply because he seems to be the only big name guy being shopped publicly.

If the GM for the Sharks publicly talked about trading Joe Thornton, what do you think happens before the season, Thornton would be traded. Heck, even Pavelski. If these players publicly talked about the team not being the right fit, and wanting to be with a team closer to winning, they would be traded.

I agree not many of these players are close to being signed long-term, but there isnt much trade talk about them out there. Vanek seems to be the biggest name available.

But like I said, maybe Regier is holding out hope he can re-sign Vanek before the trade dead line. I would not be shocked if he has no idea what he will do with Vanek right now.

Everyone talks about the Ducks, but Perry and Getzlaf wanted to be there.
When has there ever been a guy entering his walk year on par with Vanek dealt during the offseason?

Everyone knew Kovalchuk wasn't re-signing in Atlanta. Yet they kept him until the deadline.

Everyone knew Iginla wasn't re-signing in Calgary last year, yet they kept him until the deadline.

There are loads of examples of guys that you know are gone, but stick until the deadline.

And I think it's more about Pegula wanting Vanek (and Miller) to re-sign than Regier.

If Regier can move Pominville, he can move Vanek (and Miller).

Jim Bob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2013, 03:37 PM
  #137
Sabre Dance
Goals not pull-ups
 
Sabre Dance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 8,866
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegomyLeggio View Post
When has there ever been a guy entering his walk year on par with Vanek dealt during the offseason?

Everyone knew Kovalchuk wasn't re-signing in Atlanta. Yet they kept him until the deadline.

Everyone knew Iginla wasn't re-signing in Calgary last year, yet they kept him until the deadline.

There are loads of examples of guys that you know are gone, but stick until the deadline.

And I think it's more about Pegula wanting Vanek (and Miller) to re-sign than Regier.

If Regier can move Pominville, he can move Vanek (and Miller).
Its difficult, the team has to know for sure they wont be able to re-sign that player.

Jordan Staal last year. Pittsburgh knew they couldnt sign him and so they traded him.

Some people get the sense Vanek wont re-sign in Buffalo from what Vanek is saying. Its not rumors, its straight from Vanek. Regier apparently isnt even trying to sign Vanek right now. The Penguins tried their hardest to sign Jordan Staal before trading him. I dont really know what Regier's plan is with Vanek.

Sabre Dance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-26-2013, 03:42 PM
  #138
Moskau
Registered User
 
Moskau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Western New York
Posts: 17,053
vCash: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
I dont really know what Regier's plan is with Vanek.
To trade him.

Moskau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2013, 03:42 AM
  #139
slovakia18
English? I can't.
 
slovakia18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: austria/swiss
Posts: 528
vCash: 500
Allday the same one.
Vanek here Vanek there..
Vanek become The "C".and all is good.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Give-...265643?fref=ts

slovakia18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2013, 08:04 AM
  #140
Der Jaeger
O'Reichelainenhart
 
Der Jaeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 5,554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
I dont really know what Regier's plan is with Vanek.
I think Regier is going to play the breaks on both Miller and Vanek. That's sort of his MO in a way. He's setting things up right with the recent drafts and the young talent on the team and in the pipeline. As much as folks want both Miller and Vanek traded immediately, I think Regier is going to play the situation for the best. I think he's right in doing so.

Eg: he knows Vanek gets hot in the first 2-3 months of the season. He's got Hodgson to feed him the puck. Why trade him now for something underwhelming? Why not wait? Miller is a different story, but there's no reason to rush if what's being offered isn't very good compared to an expected value value. And, whatever we might think of it, there's always the re-signing option.

Der Jaeger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2013, 10:35 AM
  #141
Sabre Dance
Goals not pull-ups
 
Sabre Dance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 8,866
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
I think Regier is going to play the breaks on both Miller and Vanek. That's sort of his MO in a way. He's setting things up right with the recent drafts and the young talent on the team and in the pipeline. As much as folks want both Miller and Vanek traded immediately, I think Regier is going to play the situation for the best. I think he's right in doing so.

Eg: he knows Vanek gets hot in the first 2-3 months of the season. He's got Hodgson to feed him the puck. Why trade him now for something underwhelming? Why not wait? Miller is a different story, but there's no reason to rush if what's being offered isn't very good compared to an expected value value. And, whatever we might think of it, there's always the re-signing option.
If Regier has the guts to trade Vanek when he is hot next year I will applaud the move.

I asked this question before though, what do people think we can get later that we cant get now? 2 1st round picks? If I thought Pominville was available last year I would say 2 good prospects and a 1st. Thats what we got.

With Vanek I want a top 6 forward, a top prospect, and a 1st, but I would take what we got for Pominville.

Sabre Dance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2013, 11:02 AM
  #142
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,213
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
If Regier has the guts to trade Vanek when he is hot next year I will applaud the move.

I asked this question before though, what do people think we can get later that we cant get now? 2 1st round picks? If I thought Pominville was available last year I would say 2 good prospects and a 1st. Thats what we got.

With Vanek I want a top 6 forward, a top prospect, and a 1st, but I would take what we got for Pominville.
Pominville got what he got because he had an extra year on his contract. If you were set on blowing it up, might as well have traded Vanek then as well - you might've gotten what you suggest. With only one year left, though, I doubt you get even as much as Pommers got.

haseoke39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2013, 12:55 PM
  #143
Sabre Dance
Goals not pull-ups
 
Sabre Dance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 8,866
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Pominville got what he got because he had an extra year on his contract. If you were set on blowing it up, might as well have traded Vanek then as well - you might've gotten what you suggest. With only one year left, though, I doubt you get even as much as Pommers got.
Yeah, and I remember Regier and everyone here telling me Derek Roy couldnt get traded a year earlier because he had a year left.

I really dont understand why he didnt trade Vanek last deadline. Still wonder who the Wild called about, remember they wanted another forward 1st. Could have been Stafford or Vanek.

I would have done the same deal for Poms if they also threw in CLutterbuck. Would you have done that? Clutterbuck, Larsson, Hackett, and a 1st for Vanek? I guess we will never know who they wanted and why Darcy decided to offer Poms instead.


Last edited by Sabre Dance: 07-27-2013 at 01:01 PM.
Sabre Dance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2013, 01:14 PM
  #144
Sabresfansince1980
Registered User
 
Sabresfansince1980's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: from Wheatfield, NY
Country: Germany
Posts: 5,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
...If you were set on blowing it up, might as well have traded Vanek then as well...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
...I really dont understand why he didnt trade Vanek last deadline...
The organization was fine with losing Pominville (maybe due to his slump or lack of leadership), but they wanted to try and keep Vanek. That's the simple answer. Even if a team wants to "blow it up" that doesn't necessarily mean trading your best players that are worthy of being on the Cup contender you're trying to build.

If Vanek won't re-sign he'll be traded. My guess is that he's made that clear by now, but the cap situation around the league makes the right deal hard to get right now. Waiting right now makes sense, and I also guess that one or two teams have told Regier, "Not now, but later we can offer X,Y, and Z".

Sabresfansince1980 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2013, 02:17 PM
  #145
Sabre Dance
Goals not pull-ups
 
Sabre Dance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 8,866
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
The organization was fine with losing Pominville (maybe due to his slump or lack of leadership), but they wanted to try and keep Vanek. That's the simple answer. Even if a team wants to "blow it up" that doesn't necessarily mean trading your best players that are worthy of being on the Cup contender you're trying to build.

If Vanek won't re-sign he'll be traded. My guess is that he's made that clear by now, but the cap situation around the league makes the right deal hard to get right now. Waiting right now makes sense, and I also guess that one or two teams have told Regier, "Not now, but later we can offer X,Y, and Z".
I felt they needed to keep one of Poms or Vanek as the young guys developed. WOuld have been nice for Regier to pick the guy that would actually re-sign in Buffalo. Now maybe Poms also expressed to Regier that he wanted to test the market in 2014.

Similar to Drury and Briere, they picked Drury when he didnt pick them. At least they will get picks and prospects for these guys and not let them both leave without getting a return.

Sabre Dance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2013, 02:46 PM
  #146
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,213
vCash: 500
Yeah, my guess at this point is that he goes at the deadline for a first and a mid-level prospect. Miller probably goes for a late second or third rounder. Neither of which would be enough to move up in the draft to where we'd probably be without them.

If that happens, my only hope is that they really clean the cupboards before next season and move Stafford, Ehrhoff, and even Ott if you can get a king's ransom for him, go all in for the 2015 tank instead. If we half-ass this so that we constantly bump around in the 12th place range, we're never going to really get full rewards out of it.

haseoke39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2013, 03:19 PM
  #147
koarl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Graz / Austria
Country: Austria
Posts: 266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
I felt they needed to keep one of Poms or Vanek as the young guys developed. WOuld have been nice for Regier to pick the guy that would actually re-sign in Buffalo. Now maybe Poms also expressed to Regier that he wanted to test the market in 2014.

Similar to Drury and Briere, they picked Drury when he didnt pick them. At least they will get picks and prospects for these guys and not let them both leave without getting a return.
I've had same thoughts about that.

Pominville really is due a raise and 2014 might be his only chance for big bucks. He was signed to a rather cheap contract after his 3.1M 3y contract and then "only" got 26.5M for the next 5 years after he scored 68, 80 and 66 point seasons. The only chance to get more will be free agency. I'm sure there exists GMs that want to pay him in the 45M range and Darcy is not one of them.

koarl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2013, 04:00 PM
  #148
gallagt01
Registered User
 
gallagt01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sloan
Posts: 11,751
vCash: 500
I think the 2015 tank talk is ridiculous. You're practically lobbying for the Hodgson/Ennis/Foligno/Myers group to fail.

gallagt01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2013, 04:20 PM
  #149
Zman5778
Moderator
 
Zman5778's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cressona/Reading, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,640
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Zman5778 Send a message via Yahoo to Zman5778
Quote:
Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
I think the 2015 tank talk is ridiculous. You're practically lobbying for the Hodgson/Ennis/Foligno/Myers group to fail.
No one is lobbying for them to fail at all. However, even if all 5 of them play up to their potential, there's still 13 more skaters to play every game. Most of them are going to be quite young and won't play up to potential for a year or two.

It's realism -- there will be some bright spots individually, but the team likely isn't going to be very good for another two years.

Zman5778 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2013, 04:23 PM
  #150
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,213
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
I think the 2015 tank talk is ridiculous. You're practically lobbying for the Hodgson/Ennis/Foligno/Myers group to fail.
That's why I'd really love for them to go all in on the tank this year. But it seems that's not going to happen, so....

A lot gets said about the impressive depth of our pipeline, but honestly, I think it's not that hard to build a good supporting cast when you have elite players to draw them to you. I'd rather have one gamebreaker than 6 pretty good guys.

haseoke39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:13 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.