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Old
08-06-2013, 10:13 AM
  #376
ECWHSWI
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
Trade PK Subban?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hypothetical or not...no ****ing way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (our D-Corps will go from B-/C+ to D- or F without Subban!!).
(PK Subban is today's Orr, imo ...to me he's already the most talented/skilled dman in the history of our Habs... imo!).

Imo, PK Subban is the most competitive (always wants to win) and most entertaining player I've ever witnessed wearing the CH jersey (since...Patrick Roy). You just don't trade him (not even for fun/hypothetical!!). We need more winners like PK Subban, not more angry/bitter talkers like Gorges.
(Gorges better play like he used to or else...he can get the **** out of here with his salary and endless bitter complaints).

URGENT! (especially for playoffs):
we urgently need to improve our TOP 4...we don't really have one (especially when you compare to the top 4 teams in playoffs...our D-Corps is not made for the playoffs, except of course for PK Subban). Our #2-3-4 dmen on a top 4 playoffs team would be good as #4-5-6 dmen! We really need to improve our TOP 4 D.

What we need is...another PK Subban!, but there's only one and he's with our Habs (bonus: he grew up loving the Habs in Toronto!).


IF only we had another PK Subban!!
Tinordi - PK Subban
Emelin/Gorges - PK Subban
Gorges/Emelin - Diaz
Beaulieu
Ellis


-------------------------- --------------------------------



Back on topic (trade proposal)... I'd really love to know what it would take for our Habs' GM to acquire Byfuglien? (IMO, Winnipeg would start with Tinordi...but boy do I ever want to see Tinordi have a long, long career with our Habs...he should be a good one).


Gorges - PK Subban
Markov - Byfuglien
Tinordi/Bouillon - Diaz
Bouillon
Tinordi
Emelin (injured)
Beaulieu
how do you know that ?

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Old
08-06-2013, 12:36 PM
  #377
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If that is what you took from those threads I feel sorry for you.
That is what was to be taken from those threads, as ultimately Bergevin low-balled Subban and he might want out. Not my saying, it's in black on white everywhere.

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Old
08-06-2013, 01:13 PM
  #378
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That is what was to be taken from those threads, as ultimately Bergevin low-balled Subban and he might want out. Not my saying, it's in black on white everywhere.
What we said (and it was crystal clear) was that MB was lucky that Subban didn't demand a trade. The guy ultimately signed for less than 3 mil (totally ridiculous) and stayed. Good on PK for being willing to do this because most players would've told MB to go **** himself (and deservedly so.)

We said that MB was an idiot for doing this because... well, he was. And we said that if he tried this with Glachenyuk or some other up and coming player again, the player could easily go the other way. Not sure why this has to be spoonfed to you again.

As for trading PK, its a stupid idea. Just back up the vault and pay him. As for future negotiations with Subban going badly - MB should've thought about this before. That's on him. He's created this situation and now he has to deal with it. Trading away Subban though is not an option. If he does trade him, MB should be fired and left by the side of the road never to be spoken of again.

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Old
08-06-2013, 01:18 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
What we said (and it was crystal clear) was that MB was lucky that Subban didn't demand a trade. The guy ultimately signed for less than 3 mil (totally ridiculous) and stayed. Good on PK for being willing to do this because most players would've told MB to go **** himself (and deservedly so.)

We said that MB was an idiot for doing this because... well, he was. And we said that if he tried this with Glachenyuk or some other up and coming player again, the player could easily go the other way. Not sure why this has to be spoonfed to you again.

As for trading PK, its a stupid idea. Just back up the vault and pay him. As for future negotiations with Subban going badly - MB should've thought about this before. That's on him. He's created this situation and now he has to deal with it. Trading away Subban though is not an option. If he does trade him, MB should be fired and left by the side of the road never to be spoken of again.
This should be nominated for the most ridiculous post on HF Boards this year. I'm expecting better from you, LG. Taking your opinion as fact is one of the biggest and most common mistakes made on forums like this one.

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08-06-2013, 01:25 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
This should be nominated for the most ridiculous post on HF Boards this year. I'm expecting better from you, LG. Taking your opinion as fact is one of the biggest and most common mistakes made on forums like this one.
Not sure which part you have an issue with because everything I've written above is dead on right.

MB has created a situation with PK where his player has the leverage. And if MB ****s this up, he should be tarred and feathered before being fired. Subban is our best blueliner since Chelios and is 23 years old. The idea of trading him is ludicrous in the extreme. I don't give a crap about Simmonds or Colbourn. Hell, we should've gone for Colbourne when we had the cap space instead of wasting it on Briere. You don't go out and deal PK for a couple of good but not great players.

I'm shocked that anyone would suggest it to be honest.

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Old
08-06-2013, 02:13 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
This should be nominated for the most ridiculous post on HF Boards this year. I'm expecting better from you, LG. Taking your opinion as fact is one of the biggest and most common mistakes made on forums like this one.
It's not because you don't approve what somebody said that it isn't right.

Not agreeing =/= he's wrong. Where did he say something stupid? It was a good post...

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08-06-2013, 02:19 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
MB has created a situation with PK where his player has the leverage. And if MB ****s this up, he should be tarred and feathered before being fired.
A reminder that it takes two to tango. Unless you were directly part of the discussions, I suggest that you're taking this as facts when it's really just an opinion which isn't based on anything but your own perception. Maybe PK ****ed this up? Maybe it's both? Maybe it's not ****ed up at all and all is good? Calling for tar and feathers is childish, premature and ridiculous at this point. YOU feel like Bergevin did wrong. Others feel like he did right. YOU feel like you hold the ultimate truth, based on YOUR opinion and assumptions of what MIGHT happen in the future. Others feel like there are two sides to a coin.

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Subban is our best blueliner since Chelios and is 23 years old.
Has anyone denied that anywhere? I think it's mute as most here would agree.

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The idea of trading him is ludicrous in the extreme. I don't give a crap about Simmonds or Colbourn. Hell, we should've gone for Colbourne when we had the cap space instead of wasting it on Briere. You don't go out and deal PK for a couple of good but not great players.

I'm shocked that anyone would suggest it to be honest.
Well this proves that you're so hot on the topic that you don't read entire posts. No one here, me included, is suggesting that Subban should be traded, far from there. As a matter of fact, I bet 95% or more of this fan base want to see Subban re-signed. I'm hoping that you get that.

The idea behind it was based on the odd chance that if, as YOU and your friends have said in other threads, Subban is pissed and wants to be traded, or if for whatever reason, him and the team can't come to an agreement on a new contract, what people would expect to get in return by somewhat staying realistic about who would be made available, who would need him most, who has the assets that the Habs need most, etc. It is ONLY for discussions' sake, not a wish list as you suggest.

I'm hoping that this clarifies and mostly, that you read it all this time around.

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Old
08-06-2013, 02:21 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
That is what was to be taken from those threads, as ultimately Bergevin low-balled Subban and he might want out. Not my saying, it's in black on white everywhere.
I thought the discussion was about your position not having much merit and every time the discussion didn't go well you just invented new facts to dig yourself deeper in the hole.

That is my take on things, anyways. I've realized that when I'm wrong it's better to either admit I'm wrong or stop posting and let the crowd move on, they always do.

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Old
08-06-2013, 02:24 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
I thought the discussion was about your position not having much merit and every time the discussion didn't go well you just invented new facts to dig yourself deeper in the hole.

That is my take on things, anyways. I've realized that when I'm wrong it's better to either admit I'm wrong or stop posting and let the crowd move on, they always do.
That's your opinion and I respect it. I do the same, by admitting when I'm wrong. However, I've been saying all along that I do respect others' opinions even when they differ from mine so never did I claim holding the ultimate truth, as others have done regularly. Moving along.

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Old
08-06-2013, 05:50 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Mover View Post
It's not because you don't approve what somebody said that it isn't right.

Not agreeing =/= he's wrong. Where did he say something stupid? It was a good post...
I'm with you.

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Old
08-06-2013, 06:06 PM
  #386
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This is the trade proposal thread. I've got a great little infraction for thread hijacking I can pull out of my hat here, so get back on topic with some proposals.

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Old
08-06-2013, 06:08 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
A reminder that it takes two to tango. Unless you were directly part of the discussions, I suggest that you're taking this as facts when it's really just an opinion which isn't based on anything but your own perception. Maybe PK ****ed this up? Maybe it's both? Maybe it's not ****ed up at all and all is good? Calling for tar and feathers is childish, premature and ridiculous at this point. YOU feel like Bergevin did wrong. Others feel like he did right. YOU feel like you hold the ultimate truth, based on YOUR opinion and assumptions of what MIGHT happen in the future. Others feel like there are two sides to a coin.
PK signed for less than 3 million dollars a year. Most players would've told MB to take a hike. What more do you need to see here? The proof is in the contract.

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Has anyone denied that anywhere? I think it's mute as most here would agree.
Right. And pretty much everyone here would know that it would be crazy to think about trading him. Not sure what the point of your post on dealing him for the two decent Flyer players was about... There's no point in having discussions on it when the only sane option is to re-sign him. If negotiations go badly (as per your theoretic argument) then fire the GM and sign PK. It's that simple.

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Well this proves that you're so hot on the topic that you don't read entire posts. No one here, me included, is suggesting that Subban should be traded, far from there. As a matter of fact, I bet 95% or more of this fan base want to see Subban re-signed. I'm hoping that you get that.

The idea behind it was based on the odd chance that if, as YOU and your friends have said in other threads, Subban is pissed and wants to be traded,
That's not what we said. Again, I'll spoonfeed you again. Maybe this time you'll actually get it.

Nobody is suggesting that PK will demand a trade. If that was going to happen it would've happened already. The guy actually took a sub 3 million dollar contract for Pete's sake.

What we've said is that the club has lowballed him and probably pissed him off. Any chance of a hometown discount is severely diminished and after his Norris he has us by the balls. Nobody was suggesting that he was going to suddenly walk away. We said that we'll have to pay through the nose now. If MB is a total idiot, then sure PK would probably walk... But so would any player. Hell, I'm surprised he didn't walk this time around.

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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
or if for whatever reason, him and the team can't come to an agreement on a new contract, what people would expect to get in return by somewhat staying realistic about who would be made available, who would need him most, who has the assets that the Habs need most, etc. It is ONLY for discussions' sake, not a wish list as you suggest.
And AGAIN as I said... if they can't come to an agreement - that falls squarely on MB. He had the opportunity to lock this guy up at a reasonable amount. If he doesn't pay the guy his money and somehow ****s it up he should be fired. Period.

No excuses, no reasoning, no "it takes two to tango" crap. MB HAS to re-sign this guy. A trade or another session of PK sitting out is unacceptable.

Your "for discussions sake" topic is a moot one. We all understood it. We all know where you were coming from. I didn't suggest that you were arguing for a trade... I said it was silly to talk about.

Bottom line is that MB has put himself into a bad position here. And if he doesn't re-sign PK he deserves to be fired. Super fired actually. They should dress him with a cape and then fire him.
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I'm hoping that this clarifies and mostly, that you read it all this time around.
Take your own advice. I don't think you've understood what's been written for you. Either that or you're just distorting what's being said.

And saying my above post is the dumbest that's ever been written? Dude, I don't know what it is you are trying to accomplish here. But you are making yourself look very bad. Just give this up and move on.

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08-06-2013, 06:11 PM
  #388
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"Right. And pretty much everyone here would know that it would be crazy to think about trading him. Not sure what the point of your post on dealing him for the two decent Flyer players was about... "

I agree that trading P.K. is a crazy idea.

But I also think that paying any player above 6.5M$ is a crazier idea.

I could be open to the idea of trading Subban depending on how much he will ask contract Wise and what the return might be.

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08-06-2013, 06:25 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
"Right. And pretty much everyone here would know that it would be crazy to think about trading him. Not sure what the point of your post on dealing him for the two decent Flyer players was about... "

I agree that trading P.K. is a crazy idea.

But I also think that paying any player above 6.5M$ is a crazier idea.

I could be open to the idea of trading Subban depending on how much he will ask contract Wise and what the return might be.
Pretty much guaranteed he will make more than 6.5. I'd be absolutely blown away if he signs for a penny under 7 mill. Expecting around 7.5 - 8

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08-06-2013, 06:29 PM
  #390
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"Right. And pretty much everyone here would know that it would be crazy to think about trading him. Not sure what the point of your post on dealing him for the two decent Flyer players was about... "

I agree that trading P.K. is a crazy idea.

But I also think that paying any player above 6.5M$ is a crazier idea.

I could be open to the idea of trading Subban depending on how much he will ask contract Wise and what the return might be.
6.5 is money well spent on franchise players. If you don't want to pay great players 6.5 and up you're going to have a hard time winning cups. Sometimes players will take a hometown discount and smart GMs lock up younger players for reasonable contracts but that's not what we did here.

PK is easily worth 7 million + and it's likely what we'll wind up paying.

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08-06-2013, 07:29 PM
  #391
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Pretty much guaranteed he will make more than 6.5. I'd be absolutely blown away if he signs for a penny under 7 mill. Expecting around 7.5 - 8
Pretty much my opinion. Which is why I would consider offers thrown my way for SUbban.

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08-06-2013, 07:32 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
6.5 is money well spent on franchise players. If you don't want to pay great players 6.5 and up you're going to have a hard time winning cups. Sometimes players will take a hometown discount and smart GMs lock up younger players for reasonable contracts but that's not what we did here.

PK is easily worth 7 million + and it's likely what we'll wind up paying.
errrrr... I said I wouldn't pay more hten 6.5M$, it was inclusive of 6.5M$.

Smart GM don't overspend for players no matter they are good. Please explain to me how locking 4 players to 30M$ helps the Penguins win the Stanley Cup and explain to me why the Blackahwks managed to win the Stnaley CUp despite not paying any player more then 6.3M$.

A quick and brief explanation might be Depth is more prevalent then talent.

Yes PK will likely earn 7M$ or mroe and it's why I would look into trading him.

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08-06-2013, 08:30 PM
  #393
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errrrr... I said I wouldn't pay more hten 6.5M$, it was inclusive of 6.5M$.

Smart GM don't overspend for players no matter they are good. Please explain to me how locking 4 players to 30M$ helps the Penguins win the Stanley Cup and explain to me why the Blackahwks managed to win the Stnaley CUp despite not paying any player more then 6.3M$.

A quick and brief explanation might be Depth is more prevalent then talent.

Yes PK will likely earn 7M$ or mroe and it's why I would look into trading him.
Teams win because they have superstars leading the way. When you have one, you hang onto him.

It's obviously better to pay them less than you have to. As for Toews, Chicago's GM was smart enough to lock him up early when they had the chance. Our GM had an opportunity to lock down PK for 5 at 25 and didn't do it.

If PK demands 7 mil, you pay him. He's worth it.

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08-06-2013, 08:35 PM
  #394
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Our GM had an opportunity to lock down PK for 5 at 25 and didn't do it.

If PK demands 7 mil, you pay him. He's worth it.
Last summer it was easier to find people saying Subban was not Worth 5/25M$ then otherwise too...

Not sure there are any player in the NHL who are worth 7M$ with the salary cap at 64M$.

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08-06-2013, 08:41 PM
  #395
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As the rules don't seem to apply to Lafleurs Guy even after a mod warning, I'll get this thread back on topic.

What do you think Subban would fetch in a trade if they can't reach a deal? Let's remain realistic and ensure that the player(s) involved would be made available.

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08-06-2013, 08:53 PM
  #396
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Last summer it was easier to find people saying Subban was not Worth 5/25M$ then otherwise too...

Not sure there are any player in the NHL who are worth 7M$ with the salary cap at 64M$.
Last summer he hadn't won a Norris. And he was already well worth 5 mil per year...

You don't trade a guy like that man. We'd never get proper value for him. I could understand it if he was a vet and we were looking to rebuild but to deal away a 23 year old guy with his talents? No way.

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08-06-2013, 09:00 PM
  #397
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
As the rules don't seem to apply to Lafleurs Guy even after a mod warning, I'll get this thread back on topic.

What do you think Subban would fetch in a trade if they can't reach a deal? Let's remain realistic and ensure that the player(s) involved would be made available.
I need a defenseman in exchange of SUbban the rest of what I want packaged would be entirely dependant on the defenseman I get back in return.

I don't know if these players would be available but one of them would be required in exchange of Subban :

Dan Boyle, Duncan Keith, Ryan Suter, Brent Seabrook, Dan Hamhuis, Tobias ENstrom, Brent Burns, Keith Yandle, Kevin Bieksa, Slava Voynov, Marc-Édouard Vlasic, Justin Schultz, Ryan McDonagh, Dan Girardi, Marc Staal, Micheal Del Zotto, Zach Bogosian, Victor Hedman, Jonas Brodin, Marco Scandella, Jason Garrison, Cam Fowler, Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Alex Pietrangelo, Adam Larsson, Tyler Myers, Erik Gudbranson, Dimitry Kulikov, Travis Hamonic.

Note : if your offer does not include one of these defenseman, then don't even bother to send me your offer. It will be turned down automatically.

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08-06-2013, 09:02 PM
  #398
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Last summer he hadn't won a Norris. And he was already well worth 5 mil per year...

You don't trade a guy like that man. We'd never get proper value for him. I could understand it if he was a vet and we were looking to rebuild but to deal away a 23 year old guy with his talents? No way.
I believe you can get his value and then some through bid war.

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08-06-2013, 09:08 PM
  #399
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I believe you can get his value and then some through bid war.
Doesn't usually happen man. When you give up a superstar, you usually end up getting shafted. Factor in that he's only 23 and it has the potential to be absolutely disastrous. We haven't had a franchise player since Roy. They don't grow on trees. PK looks like he could be that kind of player. I think the idea of trading him is nuts.

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08-06-2013, 09:25 PM
  #400
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Doesn't usually happen man. When you give up a superstar, you usually end up getting shafted. Factor in that he's only 23 and it has the potential to be absolutely disastrous. We haven't had a franchise player since Roy. They don't grow on trees. PK looks like he could be that kind of player. I think the idea of trading him is nuts.
If you don't get satisfying compensation then you keep him. It doesn't cost anything to look at what he's Worth on the market.

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