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Old
08-11-2013, 02:45 PM
  #476
Hugo Sham
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
I'm not really interested in any major deals at this point unless it's one where it would be dumb for us to say no to.

Next year we have 24 mill in cap space. Majority coming from Gionta (5) and Markov (5.75)

We have Subban and Eller to re-sign Estimate that at 10 mill total (7 for Subban, 3 for Eller)

We'd have Gorges, Subban and Drewiskie signed at the d spot. Tinordi should be ready and maybe Beaulieu ? There's a lot of good fa dman available that would be able to help us. Same with forwards, though I imagine a lot of them get signed sooner, or later before they reach FA status.

I'd re-sign Emelin if it's a good price and he's wanting to stay.

So, we'd have

Subban
Gorges
Tinordi
Emelin* (if he re-signs)
Beaulieu* (if he's here/makes the team)
Drewiskie (7th d imo)

So, we'd have 2 spots potentially open.

Joni Pitkanen
Brooks Orpik
Andrej Meszaros
Niklas Hjamlarsson
Dan Girardi
Dennis Seidenberg
Jonathan Eriksson
Matt Greene
Mark Stuart
Deryk Engelland
Kyle Quincey

I'd say at least 4 of these players make it to UFA status.

Joni Pitkanen - Was a bit hyped in Philadelphia/Edmonton. Started to fall off and now he's back to being a very reliable defender in all aspects of the game. Would be a great partner for Subban. Likelihood of being a UFA: Minimal

Brooks Orpik - A stay-at-home defender who loves to hit and will clear the front of the net with authority. Still hasn't developed a brain for when to go kill someone and when to play it safe. Likelihood to be a UFA: High

Andrej Meszaros - A player who's more offensive first, but has slowly developed his offensive game. Throwing hits is something he doesn't shy away from. He could be used in all situations. Likelihood to be UFA: High

Niklas Hjalmarsson - More of a defensive player. Plays the game very smart. Can and will step up with a hit, but isn't his game. Will chip in offensively from time-to-time.
Likelihood to be a UFA: Medium

Dan Girardi - Showing he's a physical, shot blocking dman. Has a big shot, can help offensively too. Would look nice with him and Tinordi. Likelihood to be UFA: Poor

Dennis Seidenberg - Whatever you need done, it's done. Should be recognized for his great play overall. Another player who would look great next to Subban. Likelihood to be a UFA: Medium

Jonathan Eriksson - Big mobile dman who's starting to come into his own. Likelihood to be a UFA: Poor

Matt Greene - Big, physical shot blocking dman. Makes life miserable for anyone who's not on his team. Logs big minutes and will be a highly sought after commodity. Likelihood to be a UFA: Medium

Mark Stuart - Lower level, physical dman. Best suited for number 4, or lower position. Will add size, toughness and physicality, but will bring minimal offense, but solid defense if put into the right circumstances. Likelihood to be UFA: High

Deryk Engelland - Number 5, or 6 (or even 7) dman. Physical and literally fought his way into the NHL. Will be looking for the contract with the most NHL security.Would be a great addition for that 5, or 6 spot. Likelihood to be UFA: Medium

Kyle Quincey - Shouldn't be a target as he'll ask for more than he's worth. Not really a need for the habs either, but I know his name will come up.

We should be able to set up our d next year and start building to being a cup contender rather than just a playoff contender.
markov?

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08-11-2013, 04:50 PM
  #477
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Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Briere
Pacioretty-Desharnais-Gallagher
Bourque-Eller-Gionta
Moen-Prust-White
(Parros/Dumont)

Markov-Subban
Gorges-Diaz
Bouillon-Drewiskie
(Tinordi)

Price
Budaj
(Tokarski)

Now, I'm sure everyone's in the same boat regarding size/physicality issues. It seriously looks like it will be a problem. In addition to the lack of physicality, we could potentially be missing a huge part of what's supposed to a make small team effective; speed. With the aging of Gionta, Briere, Bouillon, and Markov, I cannot see how we will be a fast or durable team this season as each of these players has slowed down considerably. In addition, neither Desharnais or Gallagher are known for any outstanding skating abilities to make up for what they like in size, though IMO, Gallagher is not lacking.

-We have a plethora of RWs who all bring the same or similar skill-sets. (Thomas, Gionta, Gallagher, Briere, Leblanc, Collberg)
-We have a lack of quality defenceman capable of playing big minutes
-We have a lack of physical forwards and defenceman
-We have several players capable of playing the centre position and players ready for expanded roles
-We lack a defining characteristic of the team (other than small)
-We lack net presence at either end

So, I would suggest we move Gionta and/or Bouillon for an equally valued #4 defenceman that brings some size and physical ability, leadership abilities (character), and a decent contract. A Roman Hamrlik type of player (preferably more physical). Mark Stuart, Brooks Orpik, Aaron Rome, and Rotislav Klesla are all potentially different options based on value. As I've seen tonnes of Gio-Klesla talk in past threads, I chose him.

In addition to this move, I think we should attempt to bring in a versatile/complimentary scoring winger for the 3rd line. I'm thinking Mason Raymond, Brendan Morrow, Guillame Latendresse, or Peter Mueller. As Latendresse brings net presence and would come at a very cheap contract (we know he wants to be here), I chose him. I can see him being a very good complimentary player on this team based on who we have as centres and the role he would be playing. *He isn't being acquired to be a go-to power forward or bruiser, only as a net presence and complimentary scorer (i.e. Colby Armstrong's roster spot). My concern is that he is too weak defensively and too slow to be an ultra-effective part of the team.

So that would leave us with something like....

Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Briere
Pacioretty-Desharnais-Bourque
Latendresse-Eller-Gallagher
Moen-Prust-White
(Parros/Dumont/Thomas/Leblanc)

Gorges-Subban
Markov-Klesla
Drewiskie-Diaz
(Tinordi/Beaulieu/Emelin)

This would undoubtedly make us a very strong puck-possession team. A very balanced lineup with a lot of offensive potential IMO. Not perfect but a step up from where we are now in terms of being a balanced team. What we would be lacking are good defensive/versatile wingers. Any known to be available?

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08-11-2013, 05:04 PM
  #478
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IF we're a seller at the deadline.

To Was: Markov
To Mtl: 1st round pick and Brooks Laich

To NAS: Gionta
To MTL: 2nd round pick and 3rd round pick

To CGY: Desharnais
To MTL: 2nd round pick


Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher

Bourque - Plekanec - XXXXX

Laich - Eller - XXXXX

Prust - XXXXX - White


XXXXX - Subban

Tinordi - Emelin

Gorges - Diaz

Price

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Old
08-11-2013, 05:06 PM
  #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft View Post

So that would leave us with something like....

Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Briere
Pacioretty-Desharnais-Bourque
Latendresse-Eller-Gallagher
Moen-Prust-White
(Parros/Dumont/Thomas/Leblanc)

Gorges-Subban
Markov-Klesla
Drewiskie-Diaz
(Tinordi/Beaulieu/Emelin)
Klesla trade would be nice. I don't see MB trading the Captain or Boullion though

There's still a few options left for UFA D men too. Not sure if Bergevin will use the cap space on a D or Forward, but I can't see Gui getting an offer. Maybe Morrow, but what's the hold up?

If Morrow signs else where, a 1 year deal on Latendresse wouldn't hurt, but I think he will sign in Europe before it comes down to that.

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Old
08-11-2013, 05:11 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
IF we're a seller at the deadline.

To Was: Markov
To Mtl: 1st round pick and Brooks Laich

To NAS: Gionta
To MTL: 2nd round pick and 3rd round pick

To CGY: Desharnais
To MTL: 2nd round pick


Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher

Bourque - Plekanec - XXXXX

Laich - Eller - XXXXX

Prust - XXXXX - White


XXXXX - Subban

Tinordi - Emelin

Gorges - Diaz

Price
Why would Washington give both a 1st and laich? If they are buyers why they selling and losing too?

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Old
08-11-2013, 05:12 PM
  #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
IF we're a seller at the deadline.

To Was: Markov
To Mtl: 1st round pick and Brooks Laich

To NAS: Gionta
To MTL: 2nd round pick and 3rd round pick

To CGY: Desharnais
To MTL: 2nd round pick
Overrating all their values IMO. I love Markov but he has slowed down a lot and his contract is up at the end of the year, he has a NTC which I could MAYBE see him waiving for a playoff chance but I think he wants to stay here and re sign. He wouldn't bring back anything close to that return. Gio, same deal with upcoming UFA, lots of annoying injuries, maybe get a 2nd.

DD deal could happen, it's Calgary

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Old
08-11-2013, 05:13 PM
  #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
IF we're a seller at the deadline.

To Was: Markov
To Mtl: 1st round pick and Brooks Laich

To NAS: Gionta
To MTL: 2nd round pick and 3rd round pick

To CGY: Desharnais
To MTL: 2nd round pick


Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher

Bourque - Plekanec - XXXXX

Laich - Eller - XXXXX

Prust - XXXXX - White


XXXXX - Subban

Tinordi - Emelin

Gorges - Diaz

Price
First, I'd move Gorges while I'm at it, preferably even before Desharnais -- though I'd certainly move both if the demand is there.

SEcond, why on earth would Wash get rid of Laich for the playoffs? If anything, teams are looking to add players like Laich for the playoffs...

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Old
08-11-2013, 05:29 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Dagistitsyn View Post
Klesla trade would be nice. I don't see MB trading the Captain or Boullion though

There's still a few options left for UFA D men too. Not sure if Bergevin will use the cap space on a D or Forward, but I can't see Gui getting an offer. Maybe Morrow, but what's the hold up?

If Morrow signs else where, a 1 year deal on Latendresse wouldn't hurt, but I think he will sign in Europe before it comes down to that.
We have about 600K. You have to include Galchenyuks bonus', after last season you dont want to assume he wont hit them and get dinged in 2014.

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Old
08-11-2013, 06:53 PM
  #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
IF we're a seller at the deadline.

To Was: Markov
To Mtl: 1st round pick and Brooks Laich

To NAS: Gionta
To MTL: 2nd round pick and 3rd round pick

To CGY: Desharnais
To MTL: 2nd round pick


Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher

Bourque - Plekanec - XXXXX

Laich - Eller - XXXXX

Prust - XXXXX - White


XXXXX - Subban

Tinordi - Emelin

Gorges - Diaz

Price
You're expecting too much for Markov. Tom Wilson and a 2nd would be more likely.

I would be fine with the other deals.

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Old
08-11-2013, 07:17 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by ChuckyToGally View Post
You're expecting too much for Markov. Tom Wilson and a 2nd would be more likely.

I would be fine with the other deals.
a 2nd would be more likely. Just a 2nd. Maybe a 1st.

It all depends on how markov plays this year but I can see a 1st or 2nd and B level prospect but Wilson isn't it.

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Old
08-11-2013, 07:23 PM
  #486
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
a 2nd would be more likely. Just a 2nd. Maybe a 1st.

It all depends on how markov plays this year but I can see a 1st or 2nd and B level prospect but Wilson isn't it.
Look at the returns from the past trade deadline. Markov will easily be worth more than a 2nd at the TD.

If Douglas Murray can get two 2nds, we can get Wilson and a 2nd for Markov.

Of course, it will depend of team needs. Anyway I don't expect us to be in a position to trade Markov.

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Old
08-11-2013, 07:24 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by ChuckyToGally View Post
You're expecting too much for Markov. Tom Wilson and a 2nd would be more likely.

I would be fine with the other deals.
Rivet says hi.

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Old
08-11-2013, 07:38 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Rivet says hi.
Wilson has more value than Gorges had at the moment. Gorges was supposed to become a bottom pairing defenseman at best.

Wilson and WSH 2nd is better or at least as good than Gorges and SJS 1st back then.

Laich by himself has as much value as Markov as a rental IMO. The Caps are definitely not adding a 1st.

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08-11-2013, 07:40 PM
  #489
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The Capitals already lost their 1st-round pick of 2012 by trading Forsberg to Nashville, no way they give up another one for a guy like Markov. Don't think their GM would be that stupid.

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08-11-2013, 07:45 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by ChuckyToGally View Post
Look at the returns from the past trade deadline. Markov will easily be worth more than a 2nd at the TD.

If Douglas Murray can get two 2nds, we can get Wilson and a 2nd for Markov.

Of course, it will depend of team needs. Anyway I don't expect us to be in a position to trade Markov.
People drool over toughness. Markov isn't that type. I'm saying he'll get more but it depends on his health and all. That will factor in. After that, sure. Just not Wilson. We aren't gonna get Wilson alone. They will keep him.

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08-11-2013, 08:11 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by ChuckyToGally View Post
Wilson has more value than Gorges had at the moment. Gorges was supposed to become a bottom pairing defenseman at best.

Wilson and WSH 2nd is better or at least as good than Gorges and SJS 1st back then.

Laich by himself has as much value as Markov as a rental IMO. The Caps are definitely not adding a 1st.
Rivet was nowhere as good or as valuable a player in any way shape or form as Markov yet we got a serviceable young defensman AND a 1st round pick. Seeing what teams are willing to pay at the deadline for established veteran help, anything but a kings ransom would never happen. Laich and a 2nd is a long way from what the Habs could get for Markov.


Last edited by shutehinside: 08-11-2013 at 08:18 PM.
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08-11-2013, 08:20 PM
  #492
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Rivet was nowhere as good or as valuable a player in any way shape or form as Markov yet we got a serviceable young defensman AND a 1st round pick. Seeing what teams are willing to lay at the deadline for established veteran help, anything but a kings ransom would never happen. Laich and a 2nd is a long way from what the Hans could get for Markov.
I guess that we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

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08-11-2013, 08:30 PM
  #493
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I guess that we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
Agreed!... To disagree, that is.

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08-11-2013, 10:31 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Rivet was nowhere as good or as valuable a player in any way shape or form as Markov yet we got a serviceable young defensman AND a 1st round pick. Seeing what teams are willing to pay at the deadline for established veteran help, anything but a kings ransom would never happen. Laich and a 2nd is a long way from what the Habs could get for Markov.
That was 2007, lol, which is even less relevant than, say, Pronger's value in '09 (which is more relevant/realistic than Pronger's value in '06, though)...

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08-11-2013, 10:37 PM
  #495
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Honestly... if Markov could get us Tom Wilson + a 2nd... that's litteraly a 1st + a prospect. It's a good deal. Plus, Wilson is a 6'04 right winger. We just love size.

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08-11-2013, 11:35 PM
  #496
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Originally Posted by ChuckyToGally View Post
You're expecting too much for Markov. Tom Wilson and a 2nd would be more likely.

I would be fine with the other deals.
Have to politely disagree. If he is 4th again in D scoring or even top 10, it has to be a first plus.

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Old
08-12-2013, 12:09 AM
  #497
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Washington fans aren't trading Wilson for old Markov, get real.

Would you trade McCarron for a similar Dman? I wouldn't... ever...

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08-12-2013, 12:40 AM
  #498
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Washington fans aren't trading Wilson for old Markov, get real.

Would you trade McCarron for a similar Dman? I wouldn't... ever...
Definitely agree since Washington fans aren't making trades.

As for your question, we are not in a position to contend so I don't have an answer considering that we are in a different situation, which makes our needs different too.

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08-12-2013, 12:41 AM
  #499
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That was 2007, lol, which is even less relevant than, say, Pronger's value in '09 (which is more relevant/realistic than Pronger's value in '06, though)...
Only thing less relevant would be your post.

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08-12-2013, 04:18 AM
  #500
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Only thing less relevant would be your post.
Less relevant than "Rivet was worth Gorges and a 1st in 2007"? Don't think so.

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