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Old
08-15-2013, 11:14 AM
  #526
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Yup got kicked off the team in the middle of the playoffs. Pass.

played 3 on 3 with him mid-july. Said he hadn't touched his skates since he got kicked off the team and was barely working out. Oh and a COMPLETE *********. You would think, that after getting cut from the Devils, and getting kicked out of his junior team, the guy would be working extra hard on his skillset and his own self.

18 and already got a big head. I've played with some prospects over the past few years. He's definitely the most talented, but he's acting like he's already 'made it', which I find hilarious.

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08-15-2013, 11:18 AM
  #527
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Originally Posted by Treb View Post
Our captain with 2 destroyed biceps making 5 millions. I'm skeptical about him being an offensive force next year. His shot may go down a notch. I do agree with you that Bernier isn't who I would want for him.
He has 1 blown bicep that's being rehabbed and should be back to 100% like his other one was.

Besides that, he's still a way better player than Bernier. In fact, I'll just come out and say that the only reason Bernier was proposed is because he French. Not to make it a racial thing but why Bernier? Many other options out there that are better players than he and are a better fit on the Habs.

Trading our captain and consistently one of our top scorers for a bottom 6er who is barely an NHLer makes ZERO sense other than to bring in a French guy.

That trade proposal was garbage and you know it.

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Old
08-15-2013, 11:34 AM
  #528
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I hope other players develop enough to push Gionta to the 3rd line. He's still a leader on the team and valuable, just don't want to see him playing 20 mins a game.

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Old
08-15-2013, 11:40 AM
  #529
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
It wasn't to shed salary though... it's to make room for some younger players coming up.
Except for the part where cbc reported the Lightning told him it was because of his "prohibitive contract". You'd have to know precious little about the centre depth of the Lightning prospects to think any of them is worth spending $30 million to open up a spot for them.

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08-15-2013, 11:55 AM
  #530
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Originally Posted by daGreenGiant View Post
played 3 on 3 with him mid-july. Said he hadn't touched his skates since he got kicked off the team and was barely working out. Oh and a COMPLETE *********. You would think, that after getting cut from the Devils, and getting kicked out of his junior team, the guy would be working extra hard on his skillset and his own self.

18 and already got a big head. I've played with some prospects over the past few years. He's definitely the most talented, but he's acting like he's already 'made it', which I find hilarious.
Good thing the Devils scooped him up instead of forfeiting that pick!

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Old
08-15-2013, 12:08 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Travis Moen has been a huge disappointment to me last season and I was a huge fan of his back when he played in Anaheim. I gave up on him when the Habs played Boston at the end of the season in a game where Prust fought Lucic and the Bruins were all over Prust, and Moen finished the game with... 0 hit in a very intense game. He looked totally disinterested, a bit like Cole did at times before being traded.

In the mean time, according to Elliotte Friedman, the Lightning is shopping Ryan Malone and little is expected in return, trying to avoid having to buy him out.

PROS:
  • 6'4" 224 lbs
  • averages more than 2 hits per game
  • can't and will fight if/when needed
  • another veteran with leadership
  • is only one season away from 20 goals and was on pace for 20 goals again last year (6 goals in 24 GP)
  • big body on the PP who's not afraid to park himself in front of the net and cause havoc
  • although far from a Selke nominee, he's a good two-way player
  • always has good giveaway/takeaway ratio
  • plays a north-south game, much like Therrien likes
  • can easily fill in on Top 6 from time to time without looking out of of place
  • only two years left to his contract

CONS:
  • often injured in the last 3 years
  • $4.5M cap hit for those two years remaining
  • 33 years old, but hard years in the NHL

It makes me wonder if a trade based around those two players wouldn't be feasible, especially if the Lighting was willing to adsorb a couple of million in salary...
I don't think we'd get much back for Moen right now, may as well hold on to him, I'm sure he will show up a lot better and with something to prove.

What I may do if I was GM is test the market on Desharnais and if I can get a good return(2nd rounder or better), I would turn artound and take Malone from TB for a nothing prospect(Delmas) as long as they keep 1.5 to 1.75 mil of cap hit making him a 2.75-3 mil cap hit the next 2 years.

Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
Malone-Briere-Pacioretty
Galchenyuk-Eller-Gallagher

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08-15-2013, 03:31 PM
  #532
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I'd like us to be big, skilled and fast. I think we lack break-away speed and some size to create space for our players. Two things that can truly make a difference in a hockey game. We seem to have lots of 2nd tier skill and neutral or negative raw physical abilities.

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Gallagher
Bourque-Plekanec-Briere
Galchenyuk-Eller-Gionta

So, not only are we a tiny team, I don't feel we have the speed to compensate for it which makes us rely on our defence to force and push forward a transition. I don't think this is positive. It's great that our defence is very capable at distributing the puck but I think it makes us rely too much on our defence to spark the play. IMO, we need more balance and more time and space along the boards and in transition.

So I think we should acquire:
Mason Raymond or Marcus Johannson
and/or
Guilame Latendresse or Ryan Malone

**OBVIOUSLY, these are not sexy options. They are UFAs or rumoured to be available, not fantasy pick-ups.

Players we should let go/trade:
Brian Gionta and/or David Desharnais

Pacioretty-Plekanec-Briere
Johannson-Eller-Bourque
Malone-Galchenyuk-Gallagher

I think that's a more balanced and better top-9 than what we currently have. The trick is to find suitable deals for Washington and/or Tampa Bay. I think having space AND being a good puck possession team (having players who can utilize that space) will lead to good things for any team.

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Old
08-15-2013, 03:57 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
I'd like us to be big, skilled and fast. I think we lack break-away speed and some size to create space for our players. Two things that can truly make a difference in a hockey game. We seem to have lots of 2nd tier skill and neutral or negative raw physical abilities.

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Gallagher
Bourque-Plekanec-Briere
Galchenyuk-Eller-Gionta

So, not only are we a tiny team, I don't feel we have the speed to compensate for it which makes us rely on our defence to force and push forward a transition. I don't think this is positive. It's great that our defence is very capable at distributing the puck but I think it makes us rely too much on our defence to spark the play. IMO, we need more balance and more time and space along the boards and in transition.

So I think we should acquire:
Mason Raymond or Marcus Johannson
and/or
Guilame Latendresse or Ryan Malone

**OBVIOUSLY, these are not sexy options. They are UFAs or rumoured to be available, not fantasy pick-ups.

Players we should let go/trade:
Brian Gionta and/or David Desharnais

Pacioretty-Plekanec-Briere
Johannson-Eller-Bourque
Malone-Galchenyuk-Gallagher

I think that's a more balanced and better top-9 than what we currently have. The trick is to find suitable deals for Washington and/or Tampa Bay. I think having space AND being a good puck possession team (having players who can utilize that space) will lead to good things for any team.
Raymond, Johannson and Latendresse are no improvement over Desharnais and Gionta, aside from size but they don't use it. Malone is the only one on that list that I'd consider.

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Old
08-15-2013, 04:02 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
So trade our captain and top 6 winger who consistently scores close to 30 goals per for a bottom 6 player whose only redeemable quality is being bigger and French?
We're trading our capitain who won't come back here next season for an asset that isn't small.

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Old
08-15-2013, 04:55 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
We're trading our capitain who won't come back here next season for an asset that isn't small.
How do you know he won't come back? Trading Gionta for Bernier is a dumb trade on many levels.

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Old
08-15-2013, 05:02 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
How do you know he won't come back? Trading Gionta for Bernier is a dumb trade on many levels.
I concur : it's TOTALLY dumb

But it's an asset - since I can't see Gionta coming back here, unless MB really screws up.

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08-15-2013, 05:07 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
I'd like us to be big, skilled and fast.
So would the 29 other NHL teams. There's only so much size, skill and speed to go around.

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Old
08-15-2013, 05:08 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
I concur : it's TOTALLY dumb

But it's an asset - since I can't see Gionta coming back here, unless MB really screws up.
You're comment makes zero sense. If Gionta can't come back why would Jersey trade for him in the first place? They're not the kind of team that can afford to take on $5M in salary for a guy who can't play just because Lou is a nice guy.

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Old
08-15-2013, 05:13 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
I concur : it's TOTALLY dumb

But it's an asset - since I can't see Gionta coming back here, unless MB really screws up.
If Gionta leaves it frees up 5 mil in cap space to use elswhere, so it's not the end of the world.

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Old
08-15-2013, 05:15 PM
  #540
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
You're comment makes zero sense. If Gionta can't come back why would Jersey trade for him in the first place? They're not the kind of team that can afford to take on $5M in salary for a guy who can't play just because Lou is a nice guy.

I don't think you understand what he's trying to say....
Gionta is not coming back after his contract because he does not fit in with the habs (size, age, etc), not because he can't play. If he wants to play in the NHL, he will. Say Lou is interested in having a veteran, who already knows the system, and grew in that organization, why wouldn't he trade for Gionta? Bernier is a small price to pay, the guy is struggling to stay on a team for more than one year.

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Old
08-15-2013, 05:47 PM
  #541
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
I concur : it's TOTALLY dumb

But it's an asset - since I can't see Gionta coming back here, unless MB really screws up.
Guys like Bernier aren't actual assets. You can get players like him for practically nothing.

And he wouldn't knock of any of Moen, Prust or White for regular 4th line duties either.

Meanwhile, Gionta is an important part of how the Habs' line system works. He's the best qualified winger to help out Plekanec in the heavy defensive role which frees up the talent necessary to run another 2 scoring lines that can win their minutes. The other wingers that have his d zone game (Prust and Moen) have minimal offensive value and aren't suited for a shutdown line that is designed to transition the puck forward, counter-attack, and keep opposition's best talent on the defensive.

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08-15-2013, 06:15 PM
  #542
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Guys like Bernier aren't actual assets. You can get players like him for practically nothing.

And he wouldn't knock of any of Moen, Prust or White for regular 4th line duties either.

Meanwhile, Gionta is an important part of how the Habs' line system works. He's the best qualified winger to help out Plekanec in the heavy defensive role which frees up the talent necessary to run another 2 scoring lines that can win their minutes. The other wingers that have his d zone game (Prust and Moen) have minimal offensive value and aren't suited for a shutdown line that is designed to transition the puck forward, counter-attack, and keep opposition's best talent on the defensive.
That player you describe isn't worth 5 millions, especially considering his size.

But I reckon mistakenly thought Bernier was younger than he actually is, hence why my "asset movement idea".

Yeah, moving a guy who can play on a top-9 for a guy who's a 9th forward when playing well, and who doesn't always do so, when both have one year left on their contracts, makes absolutely no sense at this point of the offseason.

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08-15-2013, 06:15 PM
  #543
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Guys like Bernier aren't actual assets. You can get players like him for practically nothing.

And he wouldn't knock of any of Moen, Prust or White for regular 4th line duties either.

Meanwhile, Gionta is an important part of how the Habs' line system works. He's the best qualified winger to help out Plekanec in the heavy defensive role which frees up the talent necessary to run another 2 scoring lines that can win their minutes. The other wingers that have his d zone game (Prust and Moen) have minimal offensive value and aren't suited for a shutdown line that is designed to transition the puck forward, counter-attack, and keep opposition's best talent on the defensive.
And you can get guys like Drewski for even less, but that didn't prevent the org from signing him correct? IMHO Bernier would complement a third line of Prust - Galch/DD/Eller (whoever centers) better than Gio or Briere and I'd want Gallgher on the top 6 so ... Our right wingers look frail and you can't play Parros on every line.

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Old
08-15-2013, 06:16 PM
  #544
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
If Gionta leaves it frees up 5 mil in cap space to use elswhere, so it's not the end of the world.
The idea was to get something in return that could help in a fit, but then again, I thought Steve was actually Jonathan's age, so that would indeed be a very stupid move at this point of the offseason.

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Old
08-16-2013, 05:04 AM
  #545
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
I'd like us to be big, skilled and fast. I think we lack break-away speed and some size to create space for our players. Two things that can truly make a difference in a hockey game. We seem to have lots of 2nd tier skill and neutral or negative raw physical abilities.

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Gallagher
Bourque-Plekanec-Briere
Galchenyuk-Eller-Gionta

So, not only are we a tiny team, I don't feel we have the speed to compensate for it which makes us rely on our defence to force and push forward a transition. I don't think this is positive. It's great that our defence is very capable at distributing the puck but I think it makes us rely too much on our defence to spark the play. IMO, we need more balance and more time and space along the boards and in transition.

So I think we should acquire:
Mason Raymond or Marcus Johannson
and/or
Guilame Latendresse or Ryan Malone

**OBVIOUSLY, these are not sexy options. They are UFAs or rumoured to be available, not fantasy pick-ups.

Players we should let go/trade:
Brian Gionta and/or David Desharnais

Pacioretty-Plekanec-Briere
Johannson-Eller-Bourque
Malone-Galchenyuk-Gallagher

I think that's a more balanced and better top-9 than what we currently have. The trick is to find suitable deals for Washington and/or Tampa Bay. I think having space AND being a good puck possession team (having players who can utilize that space) will lead to good things for any team.
I have to agree with the acquiring of Marcus Johansson, adding a LW that can produce 50 pts and has the additional speed and size (6'1"-205lbs) and at the same time alleviate one or two of our smaller forwards (Desharnais & Gionta) would help both teams.This trade also opens a position at center A.Gally and at RW (Bourque) his natural wing position.


Last edited by S Bah: 08-16-2013 at 05:09 AM.
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Old
08-16-2013, 11:46 AM
  #546
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That player you describe isn't worth 5 millions, especially considering his size.

But I reckon mistakenly thought Bernier was younger than he actually is, hence why my "asset movement idea".

Yeah, moving a guy who can play on a top-9 for a guy who's a 9th forward when playing well, and who doesn't always do so, when both have one year left on their contracts, makes absolutely no sense at this point of the offseason.
Worth 5 million no. Probably more in the 3.5-4 range. If you think you can get a veteran regular 20+ goal man with plus defensive ability for less than that you're out to lunch.

But if you think he's the 9th player in the top nine, you don't really get the value of what he brings to the table. Gionta's a top six winger any deficiencies this board likes to rag on him for is made up for by his plus defensive skill. He's a fair bit more valuable than the likes of Bourque and Briere, who are passengers that need to be carried on their lines and not drivers of play.

Who would call Drewiskie an asset? He's a prime example of how replacement level players cost basically nothing.

You're not even suggesting dumping him for a 2nd round pick, which would be dumb if the Habs are trying to be competitive this season. You're suggesting making the roster worse for a player of effectively zero value.

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08-16-2013, 12:04 PM
  #547
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I still laugh at all the lads predicting lines here and putting Briere on the wing. I guess you haven't been watching hockey outside of Montreal. There is no chance that Briere on the wing will work out. 0 with a bar through it.

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08-16-2013, 12:10 PM
  #548
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I still laugh at all the lads predicting lines here and putting Briere on the wing. I guess you haven't been watching hockey outside of Montreal. There is no chance that Briere on the wing will work out. 0 with a bar through it.
Well, one of Pleks (not happening), Eller ( experiment not conclusive) , DD or Brière has to play 4C or top-9 winger. Chuckie is already a center used as winger and now we'll have 2.

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08-16-2013, 12:32 PM
  #549
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Worth 5 million no. Probably more in the 3.5-4 range. If you think you can get a veteran regular 20+ goal man with plus defensive ability for less than that you're out to lunch.

But if you think he's the 9th player in the top nine, you don't really get the value of what he brings to the table. Gionta's a top six winger any deficiencies this board likes to rag on him for is made up for by his plus defensive skill. He's a fair bit more valuable than the likes of Bourque and Briere, who are passengers that need to be carried on their lines and not drivers of play.

Who would call Drewiskie an asset? He's a prime example of how replacement level players cost basically nothing.

You're not even suggesting dumping him for a 2nd round pick, which would be dumb if the Habs are trying to be competitive this season. You're suggesting making the roster worse for a player of effectively zero value.
First, the 9th forward on good days comment relates to Bernier.

Second, I said afterward that I was wrong about Bernier age, and that such a trade would thus make no sense.

Third, Gionta is probably worth around 3.5M. It also happens that he has only 1 year left to its contract and that I can't see him back if he doesn't accept a cut. Even then, that would mean more smallness in the lineup.

Hence why I think he has the be traded, so we don't get zero value for him when he e entually leaves.

Last of all, when have I said something regarding Drewiske?

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08-16-2013, 12:49 PM
  #550
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
First, the 9th forward on good days comment relates to Bernier.

Second, I said afterward that I was wrong about Bernier age, and that such a trade would thus make no sense.

Third, Gionta is probably worth around 3.5M. It also happens that he has only 1 year left to its contract and that I can't see him back if he doesn't accept a cut. Even then, that would mean more smallness in the lineup.

Hence why I think he has the be traded, so we don't get zero value for him when he e entually leaves.

Last of all, when have I said something regarding Drewiske?
Oof. Sorry I went off on you, I've been mixing up discussions.


I wouldn't think there is much point to moving Gionta this season though. Habs are going to make the playoffs comfortably considering how weak the bottom 4 of the Atlantic are. Unless you get a real asset, like what Dallas got for Morrow you're better off trying to make some noise in the playoffs than chasing marginal assets just so you feel like you got something in return for Gionta.

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