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Aaron Ward: "Grabovski down to 3 teams"

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Old
07-29-2013, 07:49 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by ARSix View Post
This kind of crap should get you instantly banned for a week from making any statement about any hockey player.

There is no sample size in a single playoff series (or even several) that's worth extrapolating player worth from. Success in any particular role is INSANELY situational and depends on deployment, quality of teammates, and a plethora of other things. And most importantly, when was Kulemin ever given an opportunity to 2C a team in the playoffs? Never, obviously, because he's not a center.

"X happened in Y playoff series therefore this guy's better" is the most absurd, worthless form of argument yet it happens constantly on here.
Not just the playoffs. Zibanejad played a crucial role in Ottawa actually making the playoffs. The same cannot be said about Kulemin. If Toronto lost Kulemin, a 3rd line winger, they probably would have finished about the same in the standings.

Zibanejad had worst teammates and played on a worse team on paper. He was one of the top players.

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07-29-2013, 07:49 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
False.

When was the last time Kulemin 2nd line centered a team to the 2nd round?

Fact: Never
Kulemin is not a centre so you arguement doesn't make much sense, even if he was one making it further in any given playoff run doesn't make that player better than another. Maybe a team better than the other team, but a player?

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07-29-2013, 07:50 PM
  #353
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Which one do you disagree with and why?
Grabo >= Bolland is enough to give you a game misconduct.

Have you not heard, Grabo was misused as a #3C, he was -20 last season with only 18 points in 55 games so the excuse goes. Yet he is better than Bolland, a proven #3C on 2 cup winning teams?

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07-29-2013, 07:53 PM
  #354
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Grabo >= Bolland is enough to give you a game misconduct.

Have you not heard, Grabo was misused as a #3C, he was -20 last season with only 18 points in 55 games so the excuse goes. Yet he is better than Bolland, a proven #3C on 2 cup winning teams?
Bolland was acquired for almost nothing. Not many teams were interested.

Bolland was the 4th line centre in the playoffs for the Hawks.



Grabo was misused as the shutdown centre. Turris is the shutdown centre in Ottawa. Grabo, even though it's the ''3rd line'' would be playing on a scoring line and not a defensive role.

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07-29-2013, 07:54 PM
  #355
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I wonder if he'd consider coming back to Montreal
Yes , hang him upside down and you have the perfect piñata. you.can't.stop.

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07-29-2013, 07:55 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
False.

When was the last time Kulemin 2nd line centered a team to the 2nd round?

Fact: Never
Girl what are you talking about?

For one. Kulemin is a winger not a center.

2 Zibanejad has been to the playoffs twice and made it to the 2nd Once. Don't make it sound like Zibanejad is a veteran who has been with Ottawa for 10 years This was Kulemin's 1st year in the playoffs.

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07-29-2013, 07:56 PM
  #357
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still have a sense that he ends up in carolina and they'll work around positions. they need another top 9 guy and i think grabo wants to get away from the zoos if nothing else at this point.

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07-29-2013, 07:56 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Bolland was acquired for almost nothing. Not many teams were interested.

Bolland was the 4th line centre in the playoffs for the Hawks.



Grabo was misused as the shutdown centre. Turris is the shutdown centre in Ottawa. Grabo, even though it's the ''3rd line'' would be playing on a scoring line and not a defensive role.
You sure about that?
You have connections around the league that know that for sure?

Please Mandy, just stop.

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07-29-2013, 07:58 PM
  #359
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Girl what are you talking about?

For one. Kulemin is a winger not a center.

2 Zibanejad has been to the playoffs twice and made it to the 2nd Once. Don't make it sound like Zibanejad is a veteran who has been with Ottawa. This was Kulemin's 1st year in the playoffs.
Zibanejad is 1 for 1. He wasn't there last year.



Leafs couldn't sniff the playoffs with Kulemin on their 2nd line. They bump him down to line 3, finally, and they make it. Zibanejad anchored Ottawa's 2nd line and they make it to round 2. As a rookie. He'll be even better next year.

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07-29-2013, 08:04 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Bolland was acquired for almost nothing. Not many teams were interested.

Bolland was the 4th line centre in the playoffs for the Hawks.



Grabo was misused as the shutdown centre. Turris is the shutdown centre in Ottawa. Grabo, even though it's the ''3rd line'' would be playing on a scoring line and not a defensive role.
Ok, I don't know where to start with this post. The mud on the wall hope it sticks style of posting?

Well I am sure Chicago is glad Boland was in the line up to score the Stanley Cup winning goal.

Somehow that is something that is hard to explain away.

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07-29-2013, 08:12 PM
  #361
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Ok, I don't know where to start with this post. The mud on the wall hope it sticks style of posting?

Well I am sure Chicago is glad Boland was in the line up to score the Stanley Cup winning goal.

Somehow that is something that is hard to explain away.
I'm sure they were glad. It doesn't change the fact that he was their 4th line centre, that traded him away for little and that one goal doesn't make a player better than another. It was one goal. Zib is a better player.

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It was definitely because of Zibanejad that Ottawa had a very high save percentage... get a clue.
Good team defense, which Zib was a part of.

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07-29-2013, 08:18 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
I'm not a Leafs fan, but even I know Grabo has played some wing before.

Right now Ottawa's 3rd line looks like Zibanejad, Greening and Condra. That's better than TO's as is.

Greening - Grabovski - Zibanejad >>> TO's
I have to agree. That's a legitimate depth scoring solution. That line with McClement on it isn't even a nasty d-zone bruiser line never mind a two-way equivalent to the Bergeron line.I seriously wouldn't want Grabovski on Ottawa, because they're going to be a very difficult team to shut down. More so, that third line's offensive potential would cause problems for the opposition's scoring line.

Ottawa traditionally had problem with depth. Having Grabovski and MacArthur ( both have 60-pt potential if utilised well) are going to make them hard team to beat. They could have pairs of Spezza-Michalek, Turris-Ryan, and Grabovski-Zibanejad. That is simply going to be disgusting and, if required, all the pairs could share heavy duty minutes as well.

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07-29-2013, 08:19 PM
  #363
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07-29-2013, 08:21 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
I'm sure they were glad. It doesn't change the fact that he was their 4th line centre, that traded him away for little and that one goal doesn't make a player better than another. It was one goal. Zib is a better player.



Good team defense, which Zib was a part of.
I think you need to re-check the stats for Bolland against Boston, clue, more than one goal. He was also hurt much of last year and he has been a 3rd line Center a lot longer than a 2nd or 4th line center.

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07-29-2013, 08:24 PM
  #365
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I have to agree. That's a legitimate depth scoring solution. That line with McClement on it isn't even a nasty d-zone bruiser line never mind a two-way equivalent to the Bergeron line.I seriously wouldn't want Grabovski on Ottawa, because they're going to be a very difficult team to shut down. More so, that third line's offensive potential would cause problems for the opposition's scoring line.

Ottawa traditionally had problem with depth. Having Grabovski and MacArthur ( both have 60-pt potential if utilised well) are going to make them hard team to beat. They could have pairs of Spezza-Michalek, Turris-Ryan, and Grabovski-Zibanejad. That is simply going to be disgusting and, if required, all the pairs could share heavy duty minutes as well.
Don't mislead Ottawa fans, we all know KGM without the K in Ottawa was played to a slow death after the one off good 10-11 season. Grabo, Mac, and Kule were useless last year until Kadri revived K and M.

KGM's one career season is looking more like a fluke than reality 3 seasons removed.

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07-29-2013, 08:24 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
I'm sure they were glad. It doesn't change the fact that he was their 4th line centre, that traded him away for little and that one goal doesn't make a player better than another. It was one goal. Zib is a better player.



Good team defense, which Zib was a part of.
I don't get the GWG argument. Bolland traditionally played with very talented players. From Havlet, Ladd, Hossa, Toews to Frolik. That goal was did involve the playmaker Frolik. If we don't give Bolland that kind of talent (heck Joe Colborne is a better distributor than Kulemin/ McClement), we're going to be wasting our time. Great shutdown lines are nowadays skilled-based. Those mean Broadstreet Bullies type of grinder line aren't that common due to the speedier nature of the game.

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07-29-2013, 08:25 PM
  #367
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I have to agree. That's a legitimate depth scoring solution. That line with McClement on it isn't even a nasty d-zone bruiser line never mind a two-way equivalent to the Bergeron line.I seriously wouldn't want Grabovski on Ottawa, because they're going to be a very difficult team to shut down. More so, that third line's offensive potential would cause problems for the opposition's scoring line.

Ottawa traditionally had problem with depth. Having Grabovski and MacArthur ( both have 60-pt potential if utilised well) are going to make them hard team to beat. They could have pairs of Spezza-Michalek, Turris-Ryan, and Grabovski-Zibanejad. That is simply going to be disgusting and, if required, all the pairs could share heavy duty minutes as well.
this

Quote:
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I think you need to re-check the stats for Bolland against Boston, clue, more than one goal. He was also hurt much of last year and he has been a 3rd line Center a lot longer than a 2nd or 4th line center.
one series doesn't make him better than Zibanejad. Bolland has been plagued by injuries, which has effected his play. No reason to believe this year will be different.

For the SC Finals, I might pick Bolland. For the rest of the season, I pick Zib

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07-29-2013, 08:29 PM
  #368
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this



one series doesn't make him better than Zibanejad. Bolland has been plagued by injuries, which has effected his play. No reason to believe this year will be different.

For the SC Finals, I might pick Bolland. For the rest of the season, I pick Zib
And no reason to think he can't bounce back if he is healthy.

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07-29-2013, 08:33 PM
  #369
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Don't mislead Ottawa fans, we all know KGM without the K in Ottawa was played to a slow death after the one off of the 10-11 season. Grabo, Mac, and Kule were useless last year until Kadri revived K and M.
Kulemin was a black hole even when Grabovski produced 50 points prior to last season. Big Z is going to provide a lot more room for Grabovski than his previous linemates. As I said, I don't want him to be joining Ottawa, because effective depth scoring is very difficult to neutralise.

The Bruins realised that as well. I think once they move Kelly and a develop a skilled depth scoring line based on EL contracts, they'll be another scary team. We need to be tinkering with our "third line" because McClement doesn't belong that seeing that he was taken off the shutdown line. Bolland needs a Ladd-esque partner. I don't Colborne uses his body much, but he's getting there. A Bolland-Colborne pair or a JVR-Bolland pair may be very effective. His last partner was essentially Frollik and he's no blue collar player. Kulemin doesn't play with the same intensity as Bickell either, but he'll likely be moved around to re-start his production.

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07-29-2013, 08:36 PM
  #370
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this



one series doesn't make him better than Zibanejad. Bolland has been plagued by injuries, which has effected his play. No reason to believe this year will be different.

For the SC Finals, I might pick Bolland. For the rest of the season, I pick Zib
We're not going Broadstreet bully with Bolland. I don't think we want him to be taken out so early considering that he has injury histories. Instead insulating him talent and using him like a Marchand is probably what we'll see. If he's expected to grind Getzlaf, Malkin, Nash, Staal in our zone, he's probably going to get killed. Those forwards go into overdrive once they enter the attacking zone.

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07-29-2013, 08:38 PM
  #371
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Too lazy to read through this thread - do we know who the three teams are?

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07-29-2013, 08:43 PM
  #372
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Too lazy to read through this thread - do we know who the three teams are?
No

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07-29-2013, 08:43 PM
  #373
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No
Dang it

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07-29-2013, 09:22 PM
  #374
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07-29-2013, 09:48 PM
  #375
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Not just the playoffs. Zibanejad played a crucial role in Ottawa actually making the playoffs. The same cannot be said about Kulemin. If Toronto lost Kulemin, a 3rd line winger, they probably would have finished about the same in the standings.
Kulemin is a beast. He hits everything in sight and only 3 forwards in the league had more blocks than him. He also faced the toughest competition among all forwards. When he played with Lupul and Kadri, his offense ignited, and when he was used defensively, he had the 2nd highest PK minutes on the 2nd best PK in the league. He may not be as flashy as some, but he was a crucial part of the Leafs success last year.

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